passive plant killer
- Thread starter delta9nxs
- Start date
hell yea dude!!!! KISS x10 billion!!!! 
lol I do have some questions though
so you water mostly via dumping water through the mat into the lower bucket?
the mat doesn't leach any chemicals or affect ppm/ph? Im interested in why you chose that.
I can see how it will block light and revent algae growth and the like, why is there a single hole, is that for adding water?
the basic concept is the media goes down that pipe and rests in water. through contact with the water/solution it wicks whatever the plant needs throughout the 5 gal bucket, and then you top water slightly once every few days?
lastly, do you prefer using the media to wick solution up as opposed to ropes or cloth and why?
sry for all the questions brotha just super pumped on this ppk idea of yours, love this thread, you and mistress are on to some serious stuff, mucho respectivo!
as a side note, I was pondering today and thought about using float valves hooked to a central control res and then I come back to this thread and you post the same thing lol strange...
lol I do have some questions though
so you water mostly via dumping water through the mat into the lower bucket?
the mat doesn't leach any chemicals or affect ppm/ph? Im interested in why you chose that.
I can see how it will block light and revent algae growth and the like, why is there a single hole, is that for adding water?
the basic concept is the media goes down that pipe and rests in water. through contact with the water/solution it wicks whatever the plant needs throughout the 5 gal bucket, and then you top water slightly once every few days?
lastly, do you prefer using the media to wick solution up as opposed to ropes or cloth and why?
sry for all the questions brotha just super pumped on this ppk idea of yours, love this thread, you and mistress are on to some serious stuff, mucho respectivo!
as a side note, I was pondering today and thought about using float valves hooked to a central control res and then I come back to this thread and you post the same thing lol strange...
hey turbolaser!
yes, i water through the hole in the mat. you can use an oil funnel or just shoot it on top of the mat. it will flow down. the hole can be plugged when not in use.
the mat doesn't seem to be toxic and so far i haven't noticed any problems stemming from using it.
the mat is there to block light as you stated, so no algae.
i also wanted a barrier to debris and an insulator. my res's are on a cold concrete floor. the temperature right now in the res is about 62f, the temperature in the middle of the root zone is around 75f.
the mat is also part of the attempt to control evaporation. rapid evaporation will concentrate your nutes and mess with ph. the less evaporation the more stable your nutes will be.
the pipe is filled with media just like the bucket. it relies on the capillary rise capabilities of the media to transport water upward.
i prefer the media wick as it seems to be working fine and i believe the cloth wick kept the bottom of the container a little too wet. not enough to cause rot or damage, just wetter than my experience tells me is good for cannabis. this is all still very experimental and i have 9 weeks to go before i can see the roots of one with no cloth wicks.
the external standpipe limits res depth and maintains the necessary air gap between the res and the bottom of the growing container.
i'm waiting for materials to arrive so i can expand my lighting and space a little bit. i will link all containers in flower to a control bucket with a float valve topper. same but separate with the vegging plants. still no plans for pumps or aerators. it is still my belief that your nutrient solution can be totally anaerobic and with this type of system the upper container will pick up sufficient o2 from ambient air.
active hydro systems rely on o2 being supplied through the water system and grow mostly water type roots to adapt. i believe the plant will and is adapting to getting it's o2 from the air type roots in the upper container.
this paragraph from good old post #49 explains why this works quite well.
"If we fill five cylinders of varying heights and diameters with the same soil mix and provide each cylinder with a drainage hole, the PWT will be exactly the same height in each container. This saturated area of the pot is where roots seldom penetrate & where root problems frequently begin due to a lack of aeration. Water and nutrient uptake are also compromised by lack of air in the root zone. Keeping in mind the fact that the PWT height is soil dependent and has nothing to do with height or shape of the container, we can draw the conclusion that: Tall growing containers will always have a higher percentage of unsaturated soil than squat containers when using the same soil mix. The reason: The level of the PWT will be the same in each container, with the taller container providing more usable, air holding soil above the PWT. Physiology dictates that plants must have oxygen at the root zone in order to maintain normal root function."
so, in this version i'm using the pwt has been "tricked" into moving out of the grow container downward into the sump, which is also much smaller in diameter than the main grow chamber. reducing the total pwt volume radically.
my ppk was designed to grow large plants, but it would be easy to apply the same principles to smaller containers. for example i see a lot of folks growing medium sized plants in 2 gal containers. why not make a short sump for each one and drop them into a piece of 4" pvc pipe going around the room acting as the res. still could be linked to a control bucket.
well, enough rambling for now, later
yes, i water through the hole in the mat. you can use an oil funnel or just shoot it on top of the mat. it will flow down. the hole can be plugged when not in use.
the mat doesn't seem to be toxic and so far i haven't noticed any problems stemming from using it.
the mat is there to block light as you stated, so no algae.
i also wanted a barrier to debris and an insulator. my res's are on a cold concrete floor. the temperature right now in the res is about 62f, the temperature in the middle of the root zone is around 75f.
the mat is also part of the attempt to control evaporation. rapid evaporation will concentrate your nutes and mess with ph. the less evaporation the more stable your nutes will be.
the pipe is filled with media just like the bucket. it relies on the capillary rise capabilities of the media to transport water upward.
i prefer the media wick as it seems to be working fine and i believe the cloth wick kept the bottom of the container a little too wet. not enough to cause rot or damage, just wetter than my experience tells me is good for cannabis. this is all still very experimental and i have 9 weeks to go before i can see the roots of one with no cloth wicks.
the external standpipe limits res depth and maintains the necessary air gap between the res and the bottom of the growing container.
i'm waiting for materials to arrive so i can expand my lighting and space a little bit. i will link all containers in flower to a control bucket with a float valve topper. same but separate with the vegging plants. still no plans for pumps or aerators. it is still my belief that your nutrient solution can be totally anaerobic and with this type of system the upper container will pick up sufficient o2 from ambient air.
active hydro systems rely on o2 being supplied through the water system and grow mostly water type roots to adapt. i believe the plant will and is adapting to getting it's o2 from the air type roots in the upper container.
this paragraph from good old post #49 explains why this works quite well.
"If we fill five cylinders of varying heights and diameters with the same soil mix and provide each cylinder with a drainage hole, the PWT will be exactly the same height in each container. This saturated area of the pot is where roots seldom penetrate & where root problems frequently begin due to a lack of aeration. Water and nutrient uptake are also compromised by lack of air in the root zone. Keeping in mind the fact that the PWT height is soil dependent and has nothing to do with height or shape of the container, we can draw the conclusion that: Tall growing containers will always have a higher percentage of unsaturated soil than squat containers when using the same soil mix. The reason: The level of the PWT will be the same in each container, with the taller container providing more usable, air holding soil above the PWT. Physiology dictates that plants must have oxygen at the root zone in order to maintain normal root function."
so, in this version i'm using the pwt has been "tricked" into moving out of the grow container downward into the sump, which is also much smaller in diameter than the main grow chamber. reducing the total pwt volume radically.
my ppk was designed to grow large plants, but it would be easy to apply the same principles to smaller containers. for example i see a lot of folks growing medium sized plants in 2 gal containers. why not make a short sump for each one and drop them into a piece of 4" pvc pipe going around the room acting as the res. still could be linked to a control bucket.
well, enough rambling for now, later
Very good working plans/directions. Makes you wonder how much information has been lost and rediscovered. Read how the Roman's used cement in the Coliseum and then during the "Dark Ages" that information was lost, it was 500 years before the "rediscovery"of how to make concrete. Thanks for taking the time setting out your endeavors, mulling the information over, the back and forth with Mistress was very informative.
agreed. delta, i dont mind the rambling homie!!
the 4" pvc going around the room is baller! I was thinking of linking smaller buckets with like 1.5-2 inch pvc connected to a central res whose level is controlled by a float valve, kind of like a modified waterfarm. not exactly passive like you stated, but has some serious potential.
, I guess if the sump connections were strong enough the 4" pvc could support plants in 1-2 gal containers right? maybe even 5gal trees?????
neway
The BENEFITS: more stable solution, fast flowing (12-1800 gph pump) makes more aerobic, can leave for long periods of time (1-2 weeks easy), incredible growth rates id imagine, and adding a powerful air pump would prolly make them biznatches explode!
not to mention NO CHILLER NECCESARY! big plus in my book, as this adds expense, complication and electricity consumption.
this is all just speculation and brainstorming to get a better idea of what will and will not work. do you think that using the media as a wick, if you had to give an educated guess, will work alright?
I know we have to wait till your experiment is done with it, but if you had to guess...lol
take care hope to see those roots soon!
hope you don't mind if i drop this photo delta, drew it up real quick in microsoft paint.
what do you think? any tips/comments/suggestions are welcomed, if its not okay delta let me know ill remove it, holllaa!!!! hahaha :friends:
what do you think? any tips/comments/suggestions are welcomed, if its not okay delta let me know ill remove it, holllaa!!!! hahaha :friends:
L
LJB
That is a slick idea turbolaser.
You've taken the recirculating NFT and converted into a recirculating wick.
You've taken the recirculating NFT and converted into a recirculating wick.
thank you, stole concepts and ideas from delta, heath robinson, big-toke and many others im sure. I just put it together and drew it up, Im sure there is much to be improved upon.
as a side note, this system can be extrapolated indefinitely its totally scaleable.
as is one of heath's grows, he has the pvc wrap around the light in a circle with multiple levels and like 90 plants, hes not using coco and doesnt have a water fall though .
Am going to start building this within the next few days, and will post pics and results. Just waiting for some more input
yoo how do you feel about using uniseals for the connections instead delta to get a leak free fit and no perched water table?
Im thinkin a piece of ~1.5" pvc through 2 uniseals; one on the bottom of bucket and one on the top of the 4"pvc for an easy, clean, leak free system. lmk n lets keep the innovation train rollin im feelin like were on to something here, i know DHF had a lot of good things to say about KISS and the wick concept too, and after all the years of krusty buckets an every kind of system he still applauded mistress and people like delta for their new wave creative style of growing. Less machines, more time with plants, a nice mix of hydro and soil, passive and active hydroponics, and therefore i see potential in something similar to this at least for my setup at this time...cheers all
bostrom155
Active member
turbolaser4528, very well said, cutting edge shit going on here. and good luck with ur grow
thnx bro! btw cant wait for spring so I can get a new gixxer n rip it up, I miss it, got me wanting to move to soCal lol good luck with yours as well
also, to make things easier, you can just lay the pipe on the ground, remove waterfall and just T the flow of the pump back into the res and downwards creating a venturi/waterfall that way, in case we wanted to make things simpler and easier. This would allow more vertical room, less contruction time, but i don't know how i would control the level (float valve) i guess
bostrom155
Active member
Delta, very good info, you are on your way to designing the perfect pot.
R
ruben andre
cool dud
R
ruben andre
what kind of nutrient you use
bostrom155
Active member
thnx bro! btw cant wait for spring so I can get a new gixxer n rip it up, I miss it, got me wanting to move to soCal lol good luck with yours as well
me too CBR929RR here though
L
LJB
I'm going to double post my own dilemma here so as to make sure the creative people see it.
This would be similar to *mistress* bucket in bucket system but something that is easily used with several main (holding the plant) containers sizes.
The question is how to elevate wicked containers ranging from 4" to 2 gallon above the floor of a tub.
I would ideally be able to have one stand or whatever it may be that holds several sizes of containers. This could be used for cuttings, seedlings, veg, mothers and flowering.
This would be similar to *mistress* bucket in bucket system but something that is easily used with several main (holding the plant) containers sizes.
The question is how to elevate wicked containers ranging from 4" to 2 gallon above the floor of a tub.
I would ideally be able to have one stand or whatever it may be that holds several sizes of containers. This could be used for cuttings, seedlings, veg, mothers and flowering.
me too CBR929RR here though
very nice, i'm going get a turbo-ed 750 cuz im into building unique stuff and perhaps cuz im a lil crazy 2 who knows. ride safe brotha man
delta, where u at?
can build stand out of 2x4's
I was thinking off just laying the 4" pvc on the ground in the basement and maintain a low res level with a float valve because it'll be easier than trying to elevate everything and have it angled and what not
. ill draw it up real quick.
here goes:
seems pretty simple and easy to make, cut 2x4"-2x8's"s to desired length/height and sit bucket on-top of that and the pipe, should be plenty stable.
ill have to redraw this system without the waterfall, or better yet, build it then take pics right? take care yall
you are all a bunch of dope fiends!
thanks, people!
i got to whack another plant this morning so i don't have much time right now. i'll be back later today.
turbolaser, your second drawing is pretty close to what i was thinking about.
i don't think a water pump is going increase available o2 much in this device as it relies on ambient o2 in the upper chamber and not dissolved o2 in the water in the res.
an air pump with the airline going into the sidewall of the sump might really do something. this would force air upwards through the medium. it would have to carry some water with it also.
this is #2, also in 100% turface. it is still not a large plant for me, although it looks about 15% heavier than the last. i'll report dry weight on this one when it's ready.
thanks, people!
i got to whack another plant this morning so i don't have much time right now. i'll be back later today.
turbolaser, your second drawing is pretty close to what i was thinking about.
i don't think a water pump is going increase available o2 much in this device as it relies on ambient o2 in the upper chamber and not dissolved o2 in the water in the res.
an air pump with the airline going into the sidewall of the sump might really do something. this would force air upwards through the medium. it would have to carry some water with it also.
this is #2, also in 100% turface. it is still not a large plant for me, although it looks about 15% heavier than the last. i'll report dry weight on this one when it's ready.
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yeahh delta whoot woot!!! haha nice plant looks healthy, especially with no-runoff and utilizing all passive methods. def let us know the yield brothaa
I agree! second drawing makes much more sense, much simpler and K.I.S.S. is key
Furthermore, not passive again, but the airline in the sump wall sounds like a great idea, am going to try that, as it seems it would definitely be more effective than just oxygenating the water underneath like u said.
I wonder if the airline to sump wall will cut down on the need for top watering and increase yield because of extra water and oxygen being pumped upwards through the medium...
forgive me taking up so much space in your thread, but these concepts of yours and others are f*in killer!!!
:friends:
I agree! second drawing makes much more sense, much simpler and K.I.S.S. is key
Furthermore, not passive again, but the airline in the sump wall sounds like a great idea, am going to try that, as it seems it would definitely be more effective than just oxygenating the water underneath like u said.
I wonder if the airline to sump wall will cut down on the need for top watering and increase yield because of extra water and oxygen being pumped upwards through the medium...
forgive me taking up so much space in your thread, but these concepts of yours and others are f*in killer!!!
:friends:
