ozone generator vs. can fan?

[sanjuan]

Big Blue (duct) replacement lamp = US$50 (or less)

 

[Bud Bug]

Well I have built 30+ UV Bulb ozone generators over the years . Last one I built was a 16 bulb ozone generator for a 50+ light garden. It looked like a big laser device with 8 ballast around a 14" Snap Lock pipe and 16 UV bulbs inside the pipe. Talk about instant lung damage and burnt eye balls from the uv.

Fixed tons of Black Widow, Air Tigers and Green Avengers over the years. I've had several commercial ozone generators brought to me where the ballasts arced out and almost burn down the house/grow

I've seen guys fuck their plants up because their exhaust fans failed or the breaker for the fan tripped and with out a backdraft damper the ozone machine kept on running and the ozone feeding back into the grow room damaging the plant and fucking up workers. Keep your ozone machine on the same breaker as the fan.

Talked to plenty of guys who had no idea how to use an ozone machine and sat in a grow room with it then freak out as they were having problems breathing from the exposure.

But whatever, I really don't know anything.

 

[smoke1sun]

Refill them it takes about 20 minutes.

Thanks for answering my question k+

But i thought one of the selling points of the can filter is the process they go threw to pack it tight enough.

If i can effectively repack a can filter i might have to consider these again. Because that was my problem with my DIY filter filled it upright but as soon as i hung it in my tent i could here the carbon shifting which lead me to believe i cant pack this thing good enough to be efficient.

Another ? would be whats an estimated cost to refill a can 150?

 

[Bud Bug]

Thanks for answering my question k+

But i thought one of the selling points of the can filter is the process they go threw to pack it tight enough.

If i can effectively repack a can filter i might have to consider these again. Because that was my problem with my DIY filter filled it upright but as soon as i hung it in my tent i could here the carbon shifting which lead me to believe i cant pack this thing good enough to be efficient.

Another ? would be whats an estimated cost to refill a can 150?

You can't refill a charcoal filter properly like the original one unless you use a shaker machine that shakes the frame of the filter while you dump the charcoal in a bit at a time. The machine causes the charcoal to compact down and fill in the gaps properly other wise the charcoal will settle over time and could cause big enough gaps for air to by pass the charcoal.

Also if you try to do this with the RC 48 carbon it'll be even more problematic as the charcoal get a static charge. When it looses the change the charcoal settles down and creates gaps where air fill by pass it.

Its doable with the pellet charcoal (I've done it tons of times just take a long time) just take your time and make sure you pack it evenly on both sides. If not you wont be able to put the top cap on as the inner mesh won't be aligned from side to side. The can 150 is actually two smaller cans put together so you'll have to fill up the bottom cylinder fist and then the top smaller cylinder second.

Depending on where you are 50lb bag of charcoal costs about $150 here in the Vancouver area. Also its goona be WAY longer then 20 min to refill a Can 150. Really dedicate at least 3 hours to it with about an hour of frustration.

 

[STUPPA]

Fixed tons of Black Widow, Air Tigers and Green Avengers over the years. I've had several commercial ozone generators brought to me where the ballasts arced out and almost burn down the house/grow

Thats why it is much better to use the small corona discharge units like hydrozone because there is no ballst to worry about , it much lighter and IMO alot more effective than the UV types , oh and they also have adjustable output. You can still fit them in a 8" + ducting

http://www.hg-hydroponics.co.uk/hydrozone-ozone-generator-216-p.asp

not sure if they sell them in the states or canada tho .

 

[STUPPA]

Thanks for answering my question k+

But i thought one of the selling points of the can filter is the process they go threw to pack it tight enough.

If i can effectively repack a can filter i might have to consider these again. Because that was my problem with my DIY filter filled it upright but as soon as i hung it in my tent i could here the carbon shifting which lead me to believe i cant pack this thing good enough to be efficient.

Another ? would be whats an estimated cost to refill a can 150?

Most grow shops in the UK do a refill service , tho i think they don't actually do it themselves.
The price of doing it is only slightly cheaper than buying a new CF. but i suppose if you buy new ones all the time you are still stuck with the propblem of disposing it .

I can imagine trying to refill it yourself would be a very messy job .

 

[Bud Bug]

Most grow shops in the UK do a refill service , tho i think they don't actually do it themselves.
The price of doing it is only slightly cheaper than buying a new CF. but i suppose if you buy new ones all the time you are still stuck with the propblem of disposing it .

I can imagine trying to refill it yourself would be a very messy job .

I guess if you are in the UK and you are actually using the real Can Filter then the cost of the fliter is probably a bit nigher then say in Canada where they are made locally. A Can 150 here is about $360 CDN. Trying to refill it with charcoal is not really a good option if you wanna save some money and most stores don't want to do it anymore.

If you are using a Can 150 you probably got 6+ lights in that situation the cost of a new filter is really nothing if you replace it every 8-9 crops.

 

[smoke1sun]

Thanks folks some good info to ponder over.

 

[STUPPA]

I guess if you are in the UK and you are actually using the real Can Filter then the cost of the fliter is probably a bit nigher then say in Canada where they are made locally. A Can 150 here is about $360 CDN. Trying to refill it with charcoal is not really a good option if you wanna save some money and most stores don't want to do it anymore.

If you are using a Can 150 you probably got 6+ lights in that situation the cost of a new filter is really nothing if you replace it every 8-9 crops.

Oh OK , IMO in the UK the best filter available is the rhino filter ,previously known as phat filter .FWIW from looking at the stats they seem to be rated at higher cfm than the equivalent can filters , but they are more expensive.

I think the ones you have to watch out for are the budget cheapo filters they sell at some shops ,they only recommend using them for 6 months which would'nt exactly fill me confidence !

I agree that the cost is not much when you look at the time they last but disposing of multiple filters is a PITA , esp in UK now where recycling frenzy means everything taken to the tip is gone over with a fine tooth comb, and i don't really like dumping stuff just anywhere it's not cool.
So i can see some merit to having filters refilled if it can be done properly.

 

[El Toker]

You can't refill a charcoal filter properly like the original one unless you use a shaker machine that shakes the frame of the filter while you dump the charcoal in a bit at a time.

You can basically create the same effect by gentley shaking it manually (takes a while but works) or by putting it on top of the washing machine on a fast spin, which is what I used to do before I stopped using CFs.

 

[El Toker]

I found this and thought of this thread

I found this and thought of this thread

Personally I think that these people are snake oil peddling charlatans ripping people off. But they have clinics all around the world and are exposing people to very high doses of 03 and H202. Presumably they would have been shut down by now if there were killing or seriously injuring their punters.

Enjoy: http://www.o3center.org/index.html

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Ozone absolutely can be used properly and effectively, but one must seek out the education necessary to do so safely. A bit of pertinent data:

Material Safety Data Sheet

CAS No.: 10028-15-6

Section 1- Product identification
Product Name: Ozone
Synonyms: Triatomic Oxygen, O3, Trioxygen
Chemical Family: Oxidizer
Molecular Formula: O3
Molecular Weight: 48.0

Section 2 - Hazardous Ingredients

Components: Ozone Gas
Concentration: 0-20% by weight
Gas Registry (CAS) Number: 10028-15-6

Section 3 - Physical Data

Boiling Point: -111.9 C
Melting Point: -192.7 C
Solubility in Water by weight at 20 C: 0.003 g/l (3 ppm)
Vapor Density(air =1)

Appearance and Odor: Ozone is colorless at all concentrations experienced in industry. It has a very pungent characteristic odor usually associated with electrical sparks. Ozone odor is generally detectable at concentrations of 0.02-0.05 ppm.

Section 4 - Fire/Explosion Hazards Data

Ozone is a powerful oxidizing agent and oxidation with ozone evolves more heat and usually starts at a lower temperature than oxidation with oxygen. It reacts with non-saturated organic compounds to produce ozonides, which are unstable and may decompose with explosive violence.

Ozone is an unstable gas which, at normal temperatures, decomposes to biatomic oxygen. At elevated temperatures and in the presence of certain catalysts such as hydrogen, iron, copper and chromium, this decomposition may be explosive.

FLASH POINT: Not Applicable
AUTOIGNITION : Not Applicable
FLAMMABILITY: Non Flammable but vigorously supports combustion.
EXTINGUISHING MEDIA: Depends on source media.

Section 5 - Reactivity Data

Conditions Contributing to Instability: Ozone spontaneously decomposes under all ordinary conditions, so that it is not encountered except in the immediate vicinity of where it was formed. The decomposition is speeded by solid surfaces and by many chemical substances.

Incompatibilities: Ozone is a powerful oxidizing agent and reacts with all oxidizable materials , both organic and inorganic. Some reactions are highly explosive.

Hazardous Decomposition Products: None

Special Precautions: None

Section 6 - Health Hazard Data

Permissible Exposure Limit: The current standard for ozone is 0.1 part of ozone per million parts of air (ppm) averaged over an eight-hour work shift. This may also be expressed as 0.2 milligrams of ozone per cubic meter of air (mg/m3). No criteria is set for the permissible concentration of ozone in water.

Symptoms of Exposure: A sharp irritating odor is noticed after exposure to very low concentrations ( =0.04 ppm) of ozone for a very brief period of time. As the concentration of ozone increases, the ability to smell it may decrease. Irritation to the eyes, dryness of the nose and throat, and a cough may be experienced. If the ozone concentrations continue to rise, more severe symptoms may develop. These may include headache, upset stomach, or vomiting, pain or tightness of the chest, shortness of breath or tiredness, which may last for several days or weeks. Finally, with higher levels of exposure, the lungs may be damaged and death may occur.

Toxicological Properties: Ozone is extremely irritating to the upper and lower respiratory tract. The characteristic odor is readily detectable at low concentrations ( 0.02 ppm to 0.05 ppm). Ozone produces local irritation of the eyes and mucous membranes and may cause pulmonary edema at high exposure. Systematically, ozone has been reported to mimic the effects of ionizing radiation, and may cause damage to chromosomal structures. A partial tolerance appears to develop with repeated exposures. Although most effects are acute, the possibility of chronic lung impairment should be considered, based upon animal experimentation.

Section 7- Preventive Measures

Leak Procedures: Persons not wearing protective equipment and clothing should be restricted from areas of leaks until cleanup has been completed. If ozone is leaked, the following steps should be taken:

1. Ventilate area of leak to disperse gas.
2. Stop flow of gas.

Waste Disposal Method: Do not dispose of ozone off gas to atmosphere without properly designed off gas destruct unit.

Engineering Controls: Respiratory Protection - Positive pressure air line with mask or self-contained breathing apparatus should be available for emergency use.

Ventilation - All potential sources of ozone off gas must be collected with suitable collection system. All oxone off gas must pass through a properly designed ozone off gas destruct unit prior to release to atmosphere.

Personal Protective Equipment: Respirators may be used when engineering and work practice controls are not technically feasible, when such controls are in the process of being installed, or when they fail and need to be supplemented. Respirators may also be used for operations which require entry into tanks or closed vessels, and in emergency situations.

Only appropriate respirators shall be provided and used when the use of respirators is the only means of controlling exposure for routine operations, or during an emergency. (Refer to Table 1 of ANSUI/ASTM E591-77 for appropriate respirator selection ).

 

[sanjuan]

Exposed iron burns in the rain.

 

[bobblehead]

Personally I think that these people are snake oil peddling charlatans ripping people off. But they have clinics all around the world and are exposing people to very high doses of 03 and H202. Presumably they would have been shut down by now if there were killing or seriously injuring their punters.

Enjoy: http://www.o3center.org/index.html

In Ozone therapy, O3 isn't inhaled, so this doesn't apply.

 

[Japanfreakier]

In Ozone therapy, O3 isn't inhaled, so this doesn't apply.

Actually it is inhaled by some people to treat asthma......and they say it works too.

 

[geopolitical]

I've used both and continue to use both. Room air is carbon filtered, then ozone mixes with the exhaust air before it leaves the building. The carbon filter kills 99% of the odor, the ozone is mostly there as insurance. I have approximately 6m of duct run with a large mixing chamber setup to allow the ozone time to work.

Ozone is absolutely hazardous to your health AND your furnishings long term. Only use very well metered doses or use it in the exhaust setup so you're not breathing it in and it's not trying to eat the plants/furniture. It's an uber-potent oxidizer.

If I didn't already have the system setup I'd probably just go for carbon in a new setup. It's safe, easy to install, and as long as you match filter to fan and remember to replace it on schedule, foolproof.

Me, I always forget when to replace it, so I let the ozone run in there as well. The cost is minimal and the insurance is priceless.

 

[City Twin]

Well neighbors,

It seems only those who have 1st hand experience or witness to O3 therapeutic applications, are of a mind to see the other “Science”. Expounding such is a most often fruitless, yet Soul fulfilling exercise.

Empiricism is Dead - Long Live the Empiricists.
Peace All

 

[El Toker]

Well neighbors,

It seems only those who have 1st hand experience or witness to O3 therapeutic applications, are of a mind to see the other “Science”. Expounding such is a most often fruitless, yet Soul fulfilling exercise.

Empiricism is Dead - Long Live the Empiricists.
Peace All

Looks like you're smoking some good shit there.

 

[bobblehead]

Now, what are we fighting about? The points I have made are undeniable. I haven't made any ridiculous claims. You guys are right, one single exposure to ozone won't kill you. You'll be fine. If you're breathing elevated levels of O3 on a regular basis, then the story changes. That's it.

 

[El Toker]

Now, what are we fighting about. If you're breathing elevated levels of O3 on a regular basis, then the story changes. That's it.

I don't think anyone is debating that.

Ozone is safe when managed sensibly, like mains electricity, nutrients, water, pesticides, fans, pumps and everything else about growing. It's certainly much safer than smoking an activity that most growers indulge in. It's all a matter of looking at it sensibly.

I've been searching for stats on ozone poisoning as a result of O3 generators, and can't find any evidence of annual mortality or morbidity recorded anywhere, not even a suicide. Even peanuts have a mortality rate associated with them, but not ozone, despite there being tens of thousands of growers using 03 generators around the world.