Tutorial Organics for Beginners

[BurnOne]

thank you toodles!

just one last question to clarify... when using recipe #1, no nutrients or teas should be needed throughout the life of the plant? all i do is water?

thanks again!

Yes, thanks Toodles.

akuira-
Just use water until harvest. The blood/bone/kelp will feed the plant. As you get some experience and learn how plants respond, you can add suppliments as needed. But for now, just add water. You'll be amazed at how well things will turn out.
One item of caution... If you have a municipal water supply that uses chlorine, let the water you use on your plants sit in an open five gallon bucket(s) overnight. The chlorine will kill some of the bacteria in the soil. Left in an open container, it will all evaporate.
Burn1

 

[akuira]

Toodles, that sounds good… I’ll have to go pick some totes up in the morning

BurnOne... thanks for the advice, according to the water supply website, they are using chloramine, chlorine, and chloride… not sure if all of that will dissolve by using that method? To be safe maybe I should just go buy a couple gallons of distilled water?

Also, now that I have bought all of the items i have some more questions for you guys... here is what i was able to find: Premier Sphagnum Peat Moss (doesn’t appear to be Canadian…?), Pennington Blood Meal 12-0-0 & Bone Meal 6-12-0 (Wal-Mart), Algamin Kelp Meal 1-0-2, Earthworm Casting’s 1-0-0, and Liquid Karma & pelletized dolomite lime (will be ground up in coffee grinder)... my questions are:

1. I was not able to locate any greensand.... should i add anything else to supplement K or is the 1tbsp/gal of kelp meal enough? I only ask because my plants have a K deficiency in vegetation right now, so I want to make sure that my mix is complete from the start.

2. The bone meal I picked up seems pretty high on nitrogen, especially once combined with all the others... just want to be certain no burns will occur? If I understand right, the roots will only take these as they need them... correct?

3. I have a couple of rooted clones that are sitting in cups of broken up peat pellets right now (after the clones start showing roots through the pellet I will gently break up the peat and set in the bottom of a cup. I just find that the peat pellets are usually too compact on the bottom to allow for good root growth…) I was thinking that I could move them into a plug tray using the soilless mix #1… anyways, my question is, would it be beneficial to just add in some bone meal to this to help with root growth? Am I off track here? If I am, if you could point me in the correct direction I would appreciate it, thanks.

Sorry for all the questions, I’ve just had so much bad luck when choosing my soil/mediums (…and especially nutrients) in the past... I want to make sure I get this one right! Thanks again

 

[BurnOne]

Questions are fine. That's why we're here.
Chloramine is bad. Use packaged water or get a rain barrel.
1- You don't need Greensand.
2- That's fine. Use it as directed in the recipe.
3- Use LC's Mix until rooted. Then move to the blood/bone/kelp mix.
Burn1

 

[akuira]

Great, thanks BurnOne... I really appreciate all the advice. It sucks that I will have to get store purchased water, but I am definitly glad that I asked because that could have ruined the entire mix right... maybe thats why on all my plants, the tips of the leaves always are burnt, even newer growth... it never takes but a day or so before it's tips burn. i just assumed it was from the enviornment as no nutes seemed to help...

BurnOne, I never did get any feedback from you on how you feel about storing the mix i've chosen (#1 & recipe #1), after it has been all mixed up for about 2 weeks, whats the best way in your opinion?

 

[Mr Celsius]

You can purchase a chlorine filter from most hardware stores, its generally made out of carbon.

 

[BurnOne]

akuira-
You can store LC's Mix almost forever. I keep a 55 gallon barrel of it on hand.
After you mix in the blood/bone/kelp it will get hotter and hotter because the nutes will become more available as long as you keep them damp and aerated. That mix is pretty hot after two weeks anyway. It's too hot for some Sativas like Super Silver Haze. I cut it with more perlite for Sativas.
Burn1

 

[retawgnob]

Sorry i have not been able to keep up i have been effected by IKE. Had to move the ladies inside for a couple days. No HPS, just garage with minimal sunlight. Just didn't want to kill em. So i did read what was written since and Burn1 I appreciate the advice i noticed the same wilting and quit with the watering untill dry.

No one answered my question though as to wheater to transplant! So impaitence got the best of me and i did it any way. I had a male in the same size clay pot but had to kill him and replaced it with the one in the blue container. At first it was good, a little too high in the pot so a couple days later a moved the soil around and lowered it a good inch or so. Looks good. I watered it with i drop of superthrive and lk and bs molasses. The other is doing very well, both starting to have that dank smell i love so much.

Well mixed up my first batch of LC's Mix #1 and it was great.



Thank you.
Peace.

 

[dirkdaddy]

this is an awesome thread. i've finally got my head around organics and the basics and I just bought all the stuff getting ready for the next grow which is going to be an organic LUI grow. i have a couple of questions though. I'm going to be using LC's mix with recipe #1 and I am using coco coir instead of peat. I still need dolomite lime when using coir, correct? do I stick with the 2tbs/gal or since I am not using peat should I use something like 1tbs/gal?

also, when using coir instead of peat does it change the way you must water the medium? I was reading over some stuff in the coco coir forum and I have read that you need to hand water coir everyday. if mixed up in LC's mix does this still hold true or is it essentially the same as using peat (water when needed)?

lastly, for those of you experienced with coir, I am buying a 10lb compressed block of it. when I get it I need to "wash" it to get rid of salts right? how does this work? just throw the brick into the bathtub and give it a good bath? thanks

 

[BurnOne]

retawgnob-
You can up pot anytime you want to. Not an issue.

dirkdaddy-
Always use dolomite @ 2 tbs./gal. for calcium and magnesium.
Water when the plants need it. You'll be able to tell as you go. The bigger the plant gets, the more frequent you'll need to water it.
Put the brick into a 5 gallon bucket of hot water. After it dissolves and settles to the bottom of the bucket, cup your hand to hold the coir in as you pour out the water. Do this a couple times to wash out the salt.

Burn1

 

[dirkdaddy]

Burn, I must commend you on this thread. I've read through the majority and you've been in it answering questions throughout. i've learned so much. thanks for making the guide so easy to understand/use and for dedicating your time to educating all of us.

 

[B.C.]

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Coco has a natural, nuteral PH of 7, are sure you should add lime? wouldn't that make the pH go higher than 7 and out of range for a plant to feed on? BC

 

[BurnOne]

B.C.-
Go to the first post in this thread and read about pH and dolomite.
Burn1

 

[relizarraz]

You are a True G

 

[relizarraz]

Yo Grump,
What do you recomend,

Peat/Moss or Pro/Sunshine Mix ?

for the Soiless mixture.

And then specifically which is your favorite, the peat or moss, Pro or sunshine.

Thanks.

 

[B.C.]

hmmm...

hmmm...

Well brother B1, I know humus and humic acid will buffer the PH ta some extent. I was jus wondering if 2 parts worm castings and what lil humic acid that's in LK would be enough ta buffer that much lime in a medium that's already at a ph of 7? I spose I should have been more clear. Have you ran this mix with coco in it yerself? BC

 

[toodles]

I think others are better qualified to speak to this issue, but part of the limes function is to supply Ca and Mg cations for exchange....The humic acid/humates in the organic part of the soil supplying the necessary "exchange sites" for this to occur. As excess H+ ions accumulate from the plants metabolic processes, some H+ are exchanged with Ca and Mg cations from the dolomite lime....and thus reducing the acidity. Ca and Mg are constantly being both taken up by the plant and being washed out over time from the soil by repeated watering???

Help me out!!


Toodles


Here is a pretty simple diagram showing schematically how cation exchange works. Lime supplies a steady source of both Ca and Mg for exchange.

Ignore the "clay" particle. Many natural soils contain clay. the soiless mixes we use typicaqlly do not have any clay in them, or very little.

 

[BurnOne]

toodles-
You are technically saying what I've been simply saying for years. That's why LC's Mixes work. You can make biscuits without baking powder and they will still be biscuits. But they are soooo much better with just a pinch of leavening. So, why not follow the recipe?

B.C.-
The liquid humus in Liquid Karma isn't enough IMO. You need the added humus of worm castings for your soil mix to handle nutrients uptake. Especially if their pH is high or low. It's not the pH of the grow medium we try to buffer, but rather the food for the plant that needs to be kept at a range that it can be made available to the plant.
Organic grow mediums are complex and living. Without going into rocket surgery, "this is what works". The pH of "whatever" isn't a big issue if you follow the instructions.
All you have to do is plant, water and harvest. Don't analize it too much Bro. It'll give you gas.

relizarraz-
Peat, ProMix, Sunshine Mix etc are mostly plain old peat moss. Some have perlite and lime added. Check the recipes on the first page of this thread. They all work equally well. Use whatever you can find.

Burn1

 

[B.C.]

I know how lime works.

I know how lime works.

The humic acid/humates in the organic part of the soil supplying the necessary "exchange sites" for this to occur.

This is the part I was wondering about^^ is there enough to buffer the lime? if not, it's going to push the PH out of range... Chime on here in here ( anyone ) if yuv used LC's mix with coco. BC Edit: The first part of this was written before yer post B1, but my phone rang and I posted when I got done without lookin. lol Anyhoo, I agree the humus needs ta buffer the amendments, but it's gonna have ta buffer the lime as well. Since all this is mixed evenly throughout the medium and there's only 2 parts worm castings or compost to 8 parts coco and perlite, it seems like it would be spreading the humus thin. Again, if there's not enough humus ta buffer the plant from the PH the plant is gonna be pushed out of range for feeding by the lime ina medium that's already at a PH of 7. It's gonna make it go even higher, right? I reckon the only way yud know fersure is if ya tried it. Have ya tested it before? BC

 

[retawgnob]

All right fellas... I have the two ladies and b/c today was the first day of Fall i scheduled there first full flower nute mix (EJ Bloom, BS Molasses, & LK) today. I used the Fish Emulsion (5-1-1) at half strength with the E.J. Bloom (half strength) mixed with etc. last feed to keep up the nitrogen. Since I was unable to find the right form of Neptune's Harvest i used E.J. instead. However i noticed that the NH still had a signifigant N level. B/c I have cut out the Fish Emulsions should i see this as a problem?

I am using FFOF( I know, i know) with some EWC and Perlite thrown in. Does the N in the EWC get used quickly or should i apply a top dressing?

Either way they look and smell great. I do need to be more carefull when feeding, i noticed i kind of have a heavy hand when it comes down to it. It's not a water fall, but it a steady stream. It gets pretty hot out during the day so i don't see that as too long term of a problem. Would distilled water correct this mistake or just letting it dry out and not doing it again?



Mushrooms that look like flowers, what a beautiful gift of nature. I'm definatly more up on my micology than my botany and horticulture. Speaking of which, Toodles, you and Burn1 seem to have a pretty in-depth knowledge of the inner working of mother nature. Recomend any specific classes for a college student in need of extra hours? (other than organic chem.)

As always, in advance; all advice and constructive criticism welcomed and gratly appreciated. Thanks again fellas.

Peace

 

[BurnOne]

B.C.-
Dude, let me say this one more time... You don't have to worry about pH in organic growing. I've already said it a hundred times in this thread alone. Get your mix right and pH is a non issue. That's why LC's Mix is so effective.

retawgnob-
Worm castings are not used to provide nitrogen. They are compost and used for microherd and humic acids. Keep using the 5-1-1 full strength until the stretching begins to slow. If you see some burning on the tips of the leaves, you are using the right dose. Hold off on the bloom nutes until you are able to determine the sex of the plants. The males will show first.

Burn1