Tutorial Organics for Beginners

[Albertine]

I'm trying CC's suggestion of using a combo of crab and neem seed meal in the mix. Looking good so far. I've seen conflicting numbers for crab meal - the stuff I'm using has a listing of 4-1-1, the neem is 5-1-2.
Personally I think the more ingredients the better as long as the amount are adjusted - if I can get a variety of release times it seems the soil could be longer lasting as a fert source. Too new at container gardening to know though.

 

[treefrog]

I've been trying to lean against sourcing animal products, but mainly because I wanted to capitalize on alfafa meal and the bennies of triacontonol. I've heard and read some good things, alfalfa also seems abit safer than running the risk of exposing myself to the harmful spores in guanos. Any recommendations for seed meals to use in conjunction with alfalfa meal?

This is the info I have saved about CC's (Clackamas coot) seed meal mix. I haven't personally used it yet, but Capt.Cheeze1 has used it. He's around.

I'm sure it could be tweaked to meet your needs.
Google Steve Solomon. There is a lot of good information of his on the net for free. He has some great books too.

CC's seed meal mix

Here's the basic mix:

1x = 5 lbs.

2x alfalfa meal
2x flax seed meal
1x soybean meal
1x canola/rape seed meal
1x fish meal (nitrogen)
1x fish bone meal (phosphorus)
1x neem seed meal
1x kelp meal
1x crustacean/shrimp meal
1x bokashi bran (I make this up but bokashi bran is available online at several sources)

There are a couple of products available in the Pacific Northwest that are packed in Canada - specifically linseed meal (aka flax seed meal) and canola meal (aka rape seed meal).

All of these products are organic, non-GMO products. You should be able to find them fairly easily in your part of the world.

Based on Steve Solomon's work, I'd mix all 3 products (alfalfa, linseed and canola meals) in equal amounts - by volume and not weight. Apply at 1.5 - 2 cups per 1 c.f. of mixed potting soil.

CC

 

[Carl Carlson]

This may have been posted before.

http://soils.usda.gov/sqi/concepts/soil_biology/biology.html

The Soil Biology Primer is an introduction to the living component of soil and how it contributes to agricultural productivity, and air and water quality. The Primer includes units describing the soil food web and its relationship to soil health, and units about bacteria, fungi, protozoa, nematodes, arthropods, and earthworms. It is suitable for a broad audience including farmers, ranchers, agricultural professionals, resource specialists, conservationists, soil scientists, students, and educators.

Starting with The Soil Food Web, use the navigation links above to access the web-based version of the Primer and additional resources. This on-line version includes all of the text of the original, but not all of the images of the soil organisms. The full story of the soil food web is more easily understood with the help of the illustrations in the printed version.​

Tugel, Arlene, Ann Lewandowski, Deb Happe-vonArb, eds. 2000. Soil Biology Primer. Rev. ed. Ankeny, Iowa: Soil and Water Conservation Society.

 

[Carl Carlson]

I am not affiliated with this company:

http://www.the-organic-gardener.com/fish-emulsion.html

Using Neptune’s Harvest Liquid Fish or Fish/Seaweed Blend in a Hydroponics System. When using these products in a Hydroponics System, there are a few things to consider.

The Fish and the Blend are stabilized with Phosphoric Acid to bring the pH down to 3.5.

This process keeps the Fish from rotting and stinking. Once you add water to the Fish, the pH goes up and it is no longer stable. Because of this it must be used sparingly in a Hydroponics System, or it will start to smell like rotting fish. The following are recommended usage rates that we got from a grower with a Hydroponics System, who grows Wheat Grass, Herbs and Flowers. This grower uses 80 ml Fish or Fish/Seaweed Blend per 75 gallons of water, (1 tsp. = 15 ml).

Because he uses such a low amount, there is no odor. Also, he is feeding constantly, so he is giving the plants plenty of nutrients to grow.

He does not use any other fertilizers, and sees excellent results. He is paying 1/3 less for this product, than his previous fertilizer, and it “works better”!

Some growers have reported excellent results, from a fine mist foliar
feed, at the rate of 1 oz. per gallon of water, once per week. When feeding this way not much product reaches the water and the plants get all the nutrients directly into them, because the fertilizers are systemic, and go straight into the plant through the leaves.

Any future feedback will be appreciated. This is a new segment of our business and we are constantly learning from our customers. We will update this as more informationbecomes available.​

 

[Carl Carlson]

here's another one for Neptune's Harvest

Organic Greenhouse Vegetable Production
Horticulture Systems Guide

Steve Diver
NCAT Agriculture Specialist
© NCAT 2000
ATTRA Publication #IP078

http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/ghveg.html

Neptune’s Harvest®, with fish, seaweed, and fish-seaweed blends, is a product line that is popular with organic growers using drip systems. (For more information on Neptune’s Harvest, see the Resources section.) David Hertzell, an organic greenhouse tomato grower in Kansas, applies Neptune’s Harvest through his drip-tape system at 32-oz./400 gallons water every ten days. He and other growers prefer the blended mix to straight seaweed, because they feel the nutrient ratios of trace elements are not as balanced in seaweed alone. David also uses rock phosphate at 10 lbs/85’ row, as well as blood meal, bone meal, and alfalfa meal. He uses alfalfa mulch, a heavy application of leafmold compost, and cover crops. He also solarizes his soil every five years.​

If my math is correct, 2.35 ml per gallon, but in addition to the soil amendments.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Diluting K-Mag

Diluting K-Mag

Vonforne

A friend was at an auction a couple of weeks back. It was a bio-tech company that was relocating to a larger facility and they had some very interesting lab equipment.

My friend bought me a $600.00 plate stirrer (he paid $20.00 at the auction) where you place a vessel on the plate and through some magnetic/electrical process it moves the liquid around & around. There is a digital heating component as well as a stirring speed dial.

1/4 cup of K-Mag in 1 quart of water takes about 2 hours to completely dissolve!

Better gardening through hi-tech, eh?

LOL

CC

 

[hashit]

Is there a certain NPK ratio I should look for the bone / blood / kelp meal? I've ran into instances where some have higher ratios than others...it's not really consistent within different brands. For example, I've seen blood meal as 13 - 0 - 0 or 12 - 1 - 1 and different variations, same with the other stuff. Should I stick to the higher ratios, or play it safe with ther lower ratios?

If this question has been answered, my apologies..theres tons of pages I may have skipped something.

 

[bearded1]

i am new and have been reading this thread for a few days. about a thousand post to go. just wanted to say thanks for all the info. the more i read the more i got confused then all at once it started making since. i think i might have a chance to be an organic grower now. so thanks for such a great thread.

 

[growclean]

With the bellow recipe, do I use Maxicrop in the same amount as I would Kelp meal? It as directed, but the box doesn't say anything


LC's Soiless Mix #2:
6 parts Pro Mix BX or HP / Sunshine Mix (any flavor from #1 up) / Fox Farm Ocean Forest or Light Warrior
2 parts perlite
2 parts earthworm castings
Powdered (NOT PELLETIZED) dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.

1 tablespoon blood meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
2 tablespoons bone meal per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
1-tablespoon kelp meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix or Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract as directed

 

[vonforne]

Is there a certain NPK ratio I should look for the bone / blood / kelp meal? I've ran into instances where some have higher ratios than others...it's not really consistent within different brands. For example, I've seen blood meal as 13 - 0 - 0 or 12 - 1 - 1 and different variations, same with the other stuff. Should I stick to the higher ratios, or play it safe with ther lower ratios?

If this question has been answered, my apologies..theres tons of pages I may have skipped something.

NPK does not mean shit! Forget that.

Once you have a living soil it will not matter. The soil microbes will take care of all the technical things for you. They process.....in their own way Mother Earth intended and ten it is passed on to the plants.

V

 

[vonforne]

Vonforne

A friend was at an auction a couple of weeks back. It was a bio-tech company that was relocating to a larger facility and they had some very interesting lab equipment.

My friend bought me a $600.00 plate stirrer (he paid $20.00 at the auction) where you place a vessel on the plate and through some magnetic/electrical process it moves the liquid around & around. There is a digital heating component as well as a stirring speed dial.

1/4 cup of K-Mag in 1 quart of water takes about 2 hours to completely dissolve!

Better gardening through hi-tech, eh?

LOL

CC

For 600.00 I would buy a Microscope from MicrobeMan and dissolve the K-Mag in warm water. LOL

SOUNDS INTERESTING THOUGH.

How is the K-Mag experiment going?

V

 

[fredcdobbs]

blynx, that measurement is 2 tablespoons(TBS) per gallon of soil mixture. It is best to count out your gallons and multiply by 2 if you are mixing a bulk amount as I have. If you are mixing just a few containers then it is two in each gallon of mix. I like to add soil-then 1 TBS add some more soil-then the other so you get a good mix inside the container. Always try and mix it evenly to ensure not to create hot spots in the container. And it is best mixed up at least 2 weeks before you plant in it. 4 would be better but 2 would do in a pinch.

rasta, I think B1 meant that you need to keep the temps around 75* to 80*. This is where you will get the most microbial activity in your teas. The micro-organisms do not like it to hot or too cold. I like to keep mine in the downstairs garage....the temps stay around 80 there and as you can see my tea has a good amount of foam to it. That is the tell tale sign that you have hit the jackpot with your tea.


rasta, Suby had some good advice for you. Are you able to get those ingredients? If not chime in and we will work you up something that is available for you.

Germinator, you really should not raze someone in open forum like that. Lending a helping hand without the rhetoric would be a good start.And we like beginners here, they shall be the next masters. We were at one time, all beginners.


V

omforne,i made a tea of,liquid karma,earthwrm castings and molasses..bubbled it in 5 gallon bucket for 24hors and theres no foam..wha is yer diagnosis dr von?

 

[grapeman]

omforne,i made a tea of,liquid karma,earthwrm castings and molasses..bubbled it in 5 gallon bucket for 24hors and theres no foam..wha is yer diagnosis dr von?

Foam is not an indicator of properly made tea. As MM and CTGuy have said repeatedly, if you want to substantiate your tea, you need to buy a microscope.

So, for the mortal among us here, we just need to follow directions, calculate our air CFM in your brew process and have faith.

 

[schwagg]

i brew 5 gal. batches and they never foam. i can always tell it was a good one by checking them the next day. the leves will reach straight up. foam don't matter.

 

[fredcdobbs]

Foam is not an indicator of properly made tea. As MM and CTGuy have said repeatedly, if you want to substantiate your tea, you need to buy a microscope.

So, for the mortal among us here, we just need to follow directions, calculate our air CFM in your brew process and have faith.

thanks for answerin my question grapeman.

 

[treefrog]

I always seem to get the most foam when I use alfalfa meal for some reason.
Maybe it's a cellulose thing.. where it binds with the bubbles from the pump and holds them together.

 

[vonforne]

omforne,i made a tea of,liquid karma,earthwrm castings and molasses..bubbled it in 5 gallon bucket for 24hors and theres no foam..wha is yer diagnosis dr von?

The foam in the tea is caused by the surface tension of the water. Or the bubbles that break the surface. Hence the amount of minimum CFM needed to create this.

You can get a good head of foam with EWC and Molasses. And also from Yucca extract.

I used the foam trick a few years ago to catch every ones attention..........Looks like it worked with the amount of people using teas here these days.

If is smells sweat.......it is good. If it smells like sewer......it is bad.

V

 

[grapeman]

Alfalfa tea question.

I have noticed a slight nutrient lockup when using alfalfa teas in my containers. Usually apparent 10 days or so after application. Slight yellowing that would make any perfectionist pissed off. I make my alfalfa tea separately from my ewc tea. I make it by throwing a cup or more in a 5 gal bucket of water with a tablespoon of epsom, stir and let sit for 3 to 5 days. I have been using 1 qt. of this smelly shit in a 5 gal bucket of irrigation water, along with some ewc tea at 2 qts per 5 gallons of water. I used this mix once or twice during the first 4 weeks of 12/12.

I believe it is the alfalfa causing this slight problem. Looks like slight p deficiency.

Comments by alfalfa tea users would be appreciated. Von? Frog? It's either that or improperly prepared re-used soil.

 

[Carl Carlson]

Here's another organic fertilizer recipe.

This is from Steve Solomon. Steve wrote a book called - Growing vegetables west of the cascades: the complete guide to organic gardening.

http://www.northwestgardennews.com/id286.html

I began recommending Complete Organic Fertilizer (COF) about 25 years ago because COF is simple to make; easy and pleasant to use; it is safe, even if somewhat over-applied; and it works marvelously almost anywhere for anyone. At today’s prices, highly potent COF still works out to be less costly than any other organic fertility source. The ingredients for COF are not usually found in garden centers. Source them from farm supply or animal feed stores, usually in 50 pound sacks. All the ingredients are stable (if kept dry) so there is no loss when buying enough for several years. If your garden is not large, I suggest starting with one bag of each item. Down To Earth, a distributor and retailer in Eugene, sells the ingredients and also makes their own effective version of COF, premixed and available from their store and from other regional shops they supply. In Seattle, check out Walt’s Organic Fertilizer Company.

When blending COF all ingredients are measured by volume, using a tin can or other scoop. Do not measure by weight. Into a large plastic bucket pour the following:

4 measures of canola seed meal or cottonseed meal;

1/2 measure of ordinary agricultural lime;

1/2 measure of dolomite lime;

1 measure of bone meal or rock phosphate or high phosphate guano;

1/2 to 1 measure of kelp meal.

Mix the ingredients thoroughly.

Uniformly spread 4–6 quarts of COF per 100 sq. feet of growing bed or, if growing in long rows, 4–6 quarts of COF per 50 row feet, covering a band about 18” wide with the row of seeds or seedlings located in the center of that band. Dig it in and plant or sow seeds. If you’ll be sowing seeds do not apply more than the amount I suggest because if you create too much fertility, germination may fail. Once the seedlings are up, if your crop does not grow fast enough to suit you, side-dress it with up to another 4–6 quarts per 100 sq. ft of bed or 50 feet of row. There is no need to hoe in what was side-dressed. If the extra COF gives you a good result you shouldn’t need any more through the entire crop cycle. If the extra COF had no result, you did not need it, and do not add any more because you might overfertilize and harm your plants.​

 

[Albertine]

How about a comment by someone who hasn't had enough coffee yet, but who has had a lot of lock out symptoms, including yellowing with purpling of stems?
What if the anaerobic nature of the tea is creating a low ph condition? Or, does alfalfa create too much of the wrong kind of microbial that makes the soil go acidic?

Every time I pull a ph reading from runoff when I am showing that or a mag deficiency, I get readings in the middle 5s. When they look good, it's up in the low 6s.