Tutorial Organics for Beginners

[vonforne]

Vonforme, I am curious as to why you suggest LC base mix #2. Would #1 work just as well? Or, is there a reason why you suggest #2? The reason I am asking is because, Promix/FF/Sunshine mix are very expensive where I am, and require a trip the hydro store. Whereas I can get all ingredients for LC base mix #1 much easier and cheaper. With that said, If you feel using mix #2 is important, I will make the trip and spend the money, but don't want to waste money.

So I am thinking of using Mix #1 (unless you tell me otherwise, I want what is best for my plants), Nute mix #1 Bone Meal, Blood Meal, and Kelp Meal.

As for the Azomite, I can't afford a 45lb bag right now, just to use a cup or two, and can't find anything smaller.

I am having trouble locating the rock dust(are you refering to rock phosphate?) and/or glacial rock dust. Can you recommend some brand names, I may need to order off the internet.

One more thing, You said use pots of 1 gal per month of growth. Plants will flower from 60-77 days. If I use 2gal pots, I will not be able to fit 4 per square foot. I figured 1gal would be plenty for budsicles. There will be 0 veg. What do you think about this?

Thank you guys very much for your help.

I am curious as to why you suggest LC base mix #2. Would #1 work just as well? Or, is there a reason why you suggest #2?

What ever you can find. Both will work. The availability in each area is different.

So I am thinking of using Mix #1 (unless you tell me otherwise, I want what is best for my plants), Nute mix #1 Bone Meal, Blood Meal, and Kelp Meal.

You can get all of those at Lowes from Espoma brand.

I am having trouble locating the rock dust(are you refering to rock phosphate?) and/or glacial rock dust. Can you recommend some brand names, I may need to order off the internet.

Peaceful Valley

just click on the link....it takes you to it.

One more thing, You said use pots of 1 gal per month of growth. Plants will flower from 60-77 days. If I use 2gal pots, I will not be able to fit 4 per square foot. I figured 1gal would be plenty for budsicles. There will be 0 veg. What do you think about this?

You will not make the 70 days then with just watering.

V

 

[vonforne]

I know they're both "dry mixes" I just referred to the blood, bone, kelp mix as the dry mix because I didn't want to write it out, and it's the most common so I thought it was clear. Sorry for the confusion.

As for MSM, it's the moonshine mix that's 6-7 stickies below this thread. It's just the three main fox farm soils mixed together. For some reason they come out a lot cheaper than mixing LC's soil. Don't ask me why. I have added some additional perilite and EWC to make the ratio's almost the same as LC's mix.

My interest in guano's is only due to their reputation for a higher yield than the traditional blood, bone + kelp recipe.

Also, a 5 lbs box couldn't last anyone I know a year. By your math that's about 9-10 cups. Which would be enough for, at the most, 15-20 gallons of soil. I use over 1000 gallons of soil a year, which is relatively low... and that would require over 250 lbs of guano.

Your yeild depends on you and the genetics. N is N and P is P

I can grow with Alfalfa and bone meal and do great.



Sunleaves House of Guano

 

[Danks2005]

One more thing, You said use pots of 1 gal per month of growth. Plants will flower from 60-77 days. If I use 2gal pots, I will not be able to fit 4 per square foot. I figured 1gal would be plenty for budsicles. There will be 0 veg. What do you think about this?[/B]

You will not make the 70 days then with just watering.

V

Well shit, the one gallon pots are the only way I can get 4 per square foot and avoid veg time. I guess I can keep an eye on them, and feed with tea's if they start looking defficient.

What kind of tea would you recommend for late flowering?

 

[vonforne]

Well shit, the one gallon pots are the only way I can get 4 per square foot and avoid veg time. I guess I can keep an eye on them, and feed with tea's if they start looking defficient.

What kind of tea would you recommend for late flowering?

per gallon of water

2 TBS P guano
1 TSP molasses
1 TSP K.Mag Natural 0-0-22 aka Sul-po-mag

that is up to the last 2 weeks and then just Molasses and water for the last couple of waterings.

V

 

[delerious]

Peaceful Valley
V

I wish they were closer - shipping is high for me. I still picked up a bag of k-mag from them. How often do you use it? I've done one shot at 1TBS per gallon water and added 1 TBS per gal. of soil (cooking now). off-topic: have you grown out any of their seeds? I got some red deer tongue lettuce and something else (fall planting).

 

[grapeman]

V. your avatar used to be so friendly. Now you look evil.
lol

 

[SecretGardener]

Can I post again?

Can I post again?

Time to learn............

Work on them and get them to recover!!

First, transplant!!! It should have been your first move.

Then give them EWC and Molasses EVERY watering!

Now the next time I hear from you is when those plants are beginning to recover!

Get ´er Done!

Vonforne,

I took your advice and first transplanted the seedlings into 5 gallon buckets. I filled the bottom half of the bucket with LC's blood/bone/kelp ameneded mix that had been 'cooking' for about a month. The top half I transplanted into is just plain LC's soiless mix. Before transplanting I sprinkled some Espoma BioTone with Mycorrhizae on the roots. I then watered them in with a freshly brewed (36 hour) AACT containing molasses, EWC and liquid karma. I watered with a tea every watering since transplant.

I then waited, watched and prayed. Here are the results! I am very excited too because I've always wanted to grow Strawberry Cough and AK-47. It wasn't looking good until your post motivated me to not give up!!! Thanks!

Pictures:
1. Strawberry Cough 2 weeks ago
2. AK-47 2 weeks ago
3. Both plants (strawberry cough on the left) after transplanting into a good mix and a few good tea waterings...

Oh one question I did have was:

You see how the 5 gallon buckets are not full to the rim with soil? I did this because I had the plants outside for some time and I didnt want nosey people seeing them. I moved them back inside once they grew over the top rim. I was thinking if the plants needed more nutrients later in their life I could just cut those lower branches and fill it with amended soil. My question is, will roots grow out of the meristem into the soil?

 

[vonforne]

I wish they were closer - shipping is high for me. I still picked up a bag of k-mag from them. How often do you use it? I've done one shot at 1TBS per gallon water and added 1 TBS per gal. of soil (cooking now). off-topic: have you grown out any of their seeds? I got some red deer tongue lettuce and something else (fall planting).

Peaceful Vally was just off the top of my head. Where are you located? Some one might know of a closer location for you.

For watering K-Mag.....1 TSP per gallon is enough.....every other watering. If it is also present in the soil I would not water in until you see what happens.

If you use to water in grind it with an old coffee grinder first.

Remember....Less is Better.

I have not ordered seeds from them. Sorry.

Good job on the supplies.

V

 

[vonforne]

V. your avatar used to be so friendly. Now you look evil.
lol

Ya that was a Sith Jedi. I used to go by the Organic Jedi..........the good guys but now I am a Gray Jedi......I use both sides of the Force. lol

I am reviving the Organic Jedi group......want to be a member?

V

 

[vonforne]

Vonforne,

I took your advice and first transplanted the seedlings into 5 gallon buckets. I filled the bottom half of the bucket with LC's blood/bone/kelp ameneded mix that had been 'cooking' for about a month. The top half I transplanted into is just plain LC's soiless mix. Before transplanting I sprinkled some Espoma BioTone with Mycorrhizae on the roots. I then watered them in with a freshly brewed (36 hour) AACT containing molasses, EWC and liquid karma. I watered with a tea every watering since transplant.

I then waited, watched and prayed. Here are the results! I am very excited too because I've always wanted to grow Strawberry Cough and AK-47. It wasn't looking good until your post motivated me to not give up!!! Thanks!

Pictures:
1. Strawberry Cough 2 weeks ago
2. AK-47 2 weeks ago
3. Both plants (strawberry cough on the left) after transplanting into a good mix and a few good tea waterings...

Oh one question I did have was:

You see how the 5 gallon buckets are not full to the rim with soil? I did this because I had the plants outside for some time and I didnt want nosey people seeing them. I moved them back inside once they grew over the top rim. I was thinking if the plants needed more nutrients later in their life I could just cut those lower branches and fill it with amended soil. My question is, will roots grow out of the meristem into the soil?

You adapted and over came.......how does that make you feel? More confident as a grower? Of course it does. You have just improved as a grower. Now, start building for your next grow.

Nice Job!!!

Yes you could fill with a little soil later and top dress.....it does not take much so I would not worry about trimming too much. It looks like 4 gallons of soil. It may have been a little too much for them all at once.....next time pot up. You might have a problem with root development but do not worry about that now. You did a great job saving those plants. You will be rewarded every time you smoke a joint from those plants.

You might have root development a little when you trim them up. Any thing is a plus.

Those plants look great my man.

What you have done gives me great satisfaction. It gives meaning for what I do. I helped you.......so your experience will be passed on one day to another who needs it.

Keep us posted!!!!!

V

 

[vonforne]

Some of my tea recipes.....

Seedlings

4 gallons of tepid water
2 or 3 handfuls of EWC or fresh compost or both
1 TBS Fulvic acid per gallon
1 TSP per gallon of Molasses

Brew for 24 hours @ 70 degrees
water in.

Remember to scratch the soil and make it moist before watering with the compost tea.

Vegetative Stage ( 3 to 5 weeks

Compost Tea (Using a amended soil) used once per week

4 gallons Tepid water
2 handfuls EWC or fresh compost
1 TBS Fulvic or Humic acid per gallon
1 TBS Fish emulsions of Hydroslate per gallon
1 TSP per gallon of water

Nutrient Tea for veg rotate with the above tea

2 TBS N guano or Alfalfa ( I rotate these one on and one off)
1 TBS P guano
1 handful EWC
1 TBS Fulvic acid or Humic acid per gallon
1 TSP Molasses per gallon of water.

Brew for 24 hours @ 70 degrees and water in.

Remember to scratch the soil and make it moist before watering with the Compost tea or Nutrient tea.

Take the third watering off and water with just Molasses and water.

Early flower stage

Here I will top dress for an extra boost of N. I top dress with 1 or 2 TBS N guano.

I use the seedling tea for the first watering. I want to increase the bio activity at this time. The plants expend a great amount of energy during the stretch.

Then I use a reverse version of the Veg tea

1 TBS N guano or Alfalfa ( I rotate these one on and one off)
2 TBS P guano
1 handful EWC
1 TBS Fulvic acid or Humic acid per gallon
1 TSP Molasses per gallon of water.
1 TSP K.Mag or Sul-Po-Mag per 2 gallons of water.

Remember to scratch the soil and make it moist before watering with the Compost tea or Nutrient tea.

Then in the last four weeks I start backing off on the teas both Nutrient and Compost.

The final 2 to 3 weeks I use just Molasses and water for watering. With the last 2 waterings with plain water. At this time you are most likely watering twice a week.


This is just how I do it by standard........it does vary depending on plants and nutrient needs.

HTH

V

 

[vonforne]

Minerals

Minerals

Ok gang, he comes what we have all been talking about lately......Minerals.

Here is the break down of the soil mix.........

Base Mix

Peat
Coco
EWC
Compost
Perlite or Clay gravel

Nutrient Mix

Guanos N and P
Alfalfa or other seed meal mixes (cotton seed meal, neem seed meal etc)
Manures.....Cow, Chicken, Rabbit....etc.
and any other additive that provides N or P

Minerals

Dolomite lime or lime in any form
Rock Powders- Glacial Rock dust, Azomite, K-Mag Natural aka Sul-Po-Mag
Jersey Greensand

There are others butthis is just to give you guys an idea on what is coming in the future for you.

We will discuss the amounts at a later date.

Now, everyone do some research and find all of these items in your local area and on the internet.

V

 

[SecretGardener]

Vonforne

Yes, it feels great! I am learning to embrace problems when they happen because with a little patience they become learning experiences and in the end you become a better grower

I am going to continue vegging them until I can grab a few clones and then I'll probably flower them. You read my mind with your following post - I was going to ask if you can apply a compost tea or nutrient tea in conjunction with an amended soil?

Also, What is the difference between compost and nutrient tea? My assumption is that the compost tea contains water soluble N and of course a ton of beneficial microbes and the nutrient tea has the beneficial microbes and higher volumes of water soluble N, P or K? You can burn plants with nutrient tea but not compost tea? Please correct if my assumptions are incorrect.

How often do you mist your plants? I have been misting them every other night just after lights off.

Anyway, thanks again for your help

 

[Tilt]

Ya that was a Sith Jedi. I used to go by the Organic Jedi..........the good guys but now I am a Gray Jedi......I use both sides of the Force. lol

I am reviving the Organic Jedi group......want to be a member?

V

I want to join. I have a cab full of light sabers. stabbing my organic canopy

 

[Albertine]

Vonforme, could you elaborate on your statement

' remember to scratch the soil and make it moist?'

Do you mean you water the plant with plain water before you water with tea, or just get the top of the pot wet?
I see the adage about never feeding a plant on dry soil floating around, and I am not sure how to interpret that - how much water before feeding, how much run off, or do you not let the pot dry out too much?

 

[vonforne]

Vonforne

Yes, it feels great! I am learning to embrace problems when they happen because with a little patience they become learning experiences and in the end you become a better grower

I am going to continue vegging them until I can grab a few clones and then I'll probably flower them. You read my mind with your following post - I was going to ask if you can apply a compost tea or nutrient tea in conjunction with an amended soil?

Also, What is the difference between compost and nutrient tea? My assumption is that the compost tea contains water soluble N and of course a ton of beneficial microbes and the nutrient tea has the beneficial microbes and higher volumes of water soluble N, P or K? You can burn plants with nutrient tea but not compost tea? Please correct if my assumptions are incorrect.

How often do you mist your plants? I have been misting them every other night just after lights off.

Anyway, thanks again for your help

I was going to ask if you can apply a compost tea or nutrient tea in conjunction with an amended soil?

Sure. By adding a Compost tea you increase the bio mass with in the soil. You increase the amount of micro organisms that aid in the plants ability to uptake nutrients. The process everything in the soil.........that is their task in the soil food web.

What is the difference between compost and nutrient tea?

From the Soil Food Web Inc.

Compost tea is used for two reasons: To inoculate microbial life into the soil or onto the foliage of plants, and to add soluble nutrients to the foliage or to the soil to feed the organisms and the plants present. The use of compost tea is suggested any time the organisms in the soil or on the plants are not at optimum levels. Chemical-based pesticides, fumigants, herbicides and some synthetic fertilizers kill a range of the beneficial microorganisms that encourage plant growth, while compost teas improve the life in the soil and on plant surfaces. High quality compost tea of will inoculate the leaf surface and soil with beneficial microorganisms, instead of destroying them.

A nutrient tea is used to supplement the soil when it has been depleted of certain nutrients.....it is fast acting. When you use a guano typically 5% is water soluble. The plants uptake these nutrients immediately. The solid particles that are not water soluble are added to the soil for normal decomposition.

Other solubles:

Kelp, guanos, Alfalfa (and other seeds meals), K-Mag Natural aka Sul-Po-Mag, Humic and Fulvic acids. These are just a few.

Did you get that?

And with a Nutrient tea you can burn the hell out of your plants. It is better t start out low and work your way up.

HTH

V

 

[Danks2005]

Well, clones have been cut, soil is cooking. Time will tell. Thanks for insight. I'll let you know how it goes, after transplant.

 

[BrnCow]

Way too much lime in the LC mixes...

 

[SecretGardener]

... Other solubles:

Kelp, guanos, Alfalfa (and other seeds meals), K-Mag Natural aka Sul-Po-Mag, Humic and Fulvic acids. These are just a few.

Did you get that? ...

V

I gotcha! The fog of assumptions is starting to lift and I am seeing things clearer now! Kelp meal is not soluble right?

 

[vonforne]

Vonforme, could you elaborate on your statement

' remember to scratch the soil and make it moist?'

Do you mean you water the plant with plain water before you water with tea, or just get the top of the pot wet?
I see the adage about never feeding a plant on dry soil floating around, and I am not sure how to interpret that - how much water before feeding, how much run off, or do you not let the pot dry out too much?

Scratching the soil

Take an old fork or spoon from your wife\girlfriend and bend it at a 90 degree angle. And scratch the surface of the soil. About 2 inches deep. I spray it a little first with water. Doing this will prevent the water from running through the container so fast. And keeping the surface of the soil wet helps keep the micro biology active.

How much water.......I use about 250 ml....a coffee can works good for me.

And I never let the soil dry out.

HTH

V