Tutorial Organics for Beginners

[grapeman]

What kind of bet?

Bonemeal is basic (not caustic) and a source of calcium. I guess enough of it could kill a plant, but not burn roots. At least, I've never burned roots with it despite overapplication at first.

Hot amendments like blood meal, manure, etc. I have burned things with.

Too much Ca in the soil/plant can cause imbalances of P, K, Boron etc. in the plant. At least that is true of grapes & tomatoes.

Fatal? Depends I guess. Never done it.

Here:
http://www.spectrumanalytic.com/support/library/ff/Ca_Basics.htm

It says:

"Toxicity

Calcium, for all practical purposes, is not considered to have a directly toxic effect on plants. Most of the problems caused by excess soil Ca are the result of secondary effects of high soil pH. Another problem from excess Ca may be the reduced uptake of other cation nutrients. Before toxic levels are approached in the plant, crops will often suffer deficiencies of other nutrients, such as phosphorus, potassium, magnesium, boron, copper, iron, or zinc."

 

[EatMoGrass]

I've been out of the soil building and recycling thing for a bit now but I have a question. Is all this blood and bone meal sourced from cattle that were raised organically? I know blood and bone meal are great sources of nutes but I never liked the idea of using factory farmed products in my soils. I believe the only farmed product I was using was alfalfa meal. I used allot of castings from my own vermicompost along with many types of guano. I also used gypsum, coarse and powdered lime, greensand, kelp, epsom salt and a bunch of stuff I cant remember at the moment. I just dont like the idea of using blood and bone meal unless it can be confirmed it is from organic cattle. Still tons of great info in this thread and this site.

 

[BurnOne]

Blood and bone come from the slaughterhouse industry. Beef, pork and poultry. Definitely not organically raised. So what?
Burn1

 

[mad librettist]

i'll be getting off blood and bone when i run out, but it's just to see. Even if it were pumped full of hormones and antibiotics, the dried blood would be free of all that, or it would break down real fast.

Then you might say, what about prions? Well then i have no answer, but cannabis is not a crop that tends to get soiled like lettuce does. So who care about a few prions in the mix?

 

[EatMoGrass]

I know that both bone and blood meal are both great sources of nutes. I just like to stay away from factory farms waste products. If it was sourced from a family run organic farm that would be totally different. Again I know many people have great results with blood and bone meal. If the beef, pork, chicken produced by a farm cannot be classified as organic then I don't believe that same animals blood and bones should be classified as organic. I also do not use chicken manure as most contains antibiotics and hormones. Almost all farm animals are given antibiotics, and even de-worming meds. Fresh horse manure can kill off a worm compost due to the de-worming meds given to horses. Factory farms are out to make money, and thats it. I'll stay away when possible.

 

[darren0306]

Thank you very much!

Thank you very much!

lower this to Teaspoons as advised by Dr. Elaine Ingham of the Soil Food Web Inc.



depends on how the soil carries the plants needs. On how much ad when you feed the soil.



I would lower the TBS of guano. For 2.5 gallons of water that is a little much. I would only use 1 to 2 TBS per gallon of water.

Or if you leave it at that amount then I would dilute the mix to 1\4 strength and work your way up.



That will do you just fine.

V

Vonforne, thank you very much for the quick info! I really appreciate your suggestions.

Would this be more suitable for 2.5 gal?


veg - 3 tbsp/super tea guano...

trans - 4 tbsp Combo guano

bloom - 4 tbsp/flower guano

Also, is that tsp's for molasses ACROSS the board?

Thank you!

 

[Sirus]

Fantastic thread, so much to soak in. I made up my first soil mix

about a month ago..basically 6p FFOF, 2p FFLW, 3p EC, 3p

Perlite, and dolomite lime per B1's direction. I moistend the soil

and mixed throughly. Question, is the soil still good? Does the

dolomite lime wear off? I gave it a stir about 2 weeks ago but did

not add any more water. Appericate any input.

 

[vonforne]

Vonforne, thank you very much for the quick info! I really appreciate your suggestions.

Would this be more suitable for 2.5 gal?


veg - 3 tbsp/super tea guano...

trans - 4 tbsp Combo guano

bloom - 4 tbsp/flower guano

Also, is that tsp's for molasses ACROSS the board?

Thank you!

Like I said I would go with less in the tea OR dilute the mix you have.

And the TSP is for the molasses only. The rest is measured in TBS or Dry Weight.

V

 

[vonforne]

Fantastic thread, so much to soak in. I made up my first soil mix

about a month ago..basically 6p FFOF, 2p FFLW, 3p EC, 3p

Perlite, and dolomite lime per B1's direction. I moistend the soil

and mixed throughly. Question, is the soil still good? Does the

dolomite lime wear off? Does the

dolomite lime wear off?Appericate any input.

Question, is the soil still good? it only gets better. Mix it every now and then to add some fresh 02.

Does the dolomite lime wear off? No, it releases Ca. and Mg. into the soil and buffers the PH. It is still good.


V

 

[Sirus]

Sweet! Thank you sir

 

[darren0306]

Alright V thank you!

I knew about the tablespoons being for the dry mix, i just wasn't sure about using the 2 1/2 tsp of molasses throug the life of the plant, Or if I should increase it gradually, I suppose it's all the same.

 

[grapeman]

Getting ready for the transplant. Using LC#2 with the bone, blood etc.
In my room, I have my 50 gal rez still hooked up to a RO filter from my hydro runs.

1) My water is about 7.6ph and >150ppm. do i even need the RO anymore?

2) What soil topping, if any would you all recommend for fungas gnats and moisture retention?

Thanks

 

[bigbudbobfrombc]

Here are some tried and true recipes for getting started in organic growing. Pick one of the first two soiless mix recipes for your grow medium. Then, choose a nute recipe that will work best for what you have available.

Enjoy...

Here are two very good organic soiless mixes...

LC's Mix is great for any stage of growth. You can germ seeds in it, grow mothers in it, root clones in it as well as veg and flower in it.

LC’s Soiless Mix #1:
5 parts Canadian Spaghnam Peat or Coir or Pro-Moss
3 parts perlite
2 parts wormcastings or mushroom compost or home made compost
Powdered (NOT PELLETIZED) dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.
...Wal-Mart now sells worm castings.

Or, if you use Pro Mix, Sunshine Mix or Fox Farm mixes...
LC's Soiless Mix #2:
6 parts Pro Mix BX or HP / Sunshine Mix (any flavor from #1 up) / Fox Farm Ocean Forest or Light Warrior
2 parts perlite
2 parts earthworm castings
Powdered (NOT PELLETIZED) dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.
If you use a 3 qt. saucepan as “parts” in the amounts given above, it equals about 1 cu. ft. of soiless mix and you can just dump in a cup of powdered dolomite lime.
But, a "part" can be anything from a tablespoon to a five gallon bucket. Just use the same item for all of the "parts".

Now for the plants organic food source

Choose one of these organic plant food recipes to add to LC's Soiless Mix.

RECIPE #1
If you want to use organic nutes like blood, bone and kelp...
Dry Ferts:
1 tablespoon blood meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
2 tablespoons bone meal per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
1-tablespoon kelp meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix or Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract as directed
(OPTIONAL) 1 tablespoon per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of Jersey Greensand to supplement the K (potasium) in the Kelp Meal and seaweed extract.
Mix all the dry ferts into the soiless mix well and wet it, but don't soak it with Liquid Karma and water @ 1 tbs./gal. Stir and mix it a few times a week for a week or two so the bacteria can get oxygen and break down the bone meal and make it available. And don't let the mix dry out, keep it moist and add water as needed. It'll also have time to get the humic acids in the Liquid Karma going and the dolomite lime will be better able to adjust the pH of a peat based mixture too.
With this recipe, all you need to do is add plain water until harvest.
When I'm working with seeds, I punch a hole in the bottom of 16 ounce cups and fill them with plain LC's Mix. Lightly wet the mix in the cups and germ one seed in each cup. At the same time I mix enough LC's mix along with the blood/bone/kelp to fill all the 3 gallon flower pots I'm going to use for the grow. After about two weeks, the seedlings and the blood/bone/kelp mix are ready. I transplant the seedlings into the 3 gallon pots and just add water until harvest.
When you go to flower and pull up the males, save the mix in the pots. It is ready to be used again immediately. Just remove the root ball and transplant another seedling into it.

RECIPE #2
If you want to use guano in your soil mix...
Bongaloid's Guano Mix.
Use all these items combined with one gallon of soil mix.
1/3C hi N Guano (Mexican Bat Guano)
1/2C hi P Guano (Jamaican or Indonesian Bat Guano)
1TBS Kelp Meal
(OPTIONAL) 1TBS Jersey Greensand

RECIPE #3 (My favorite)
If you want to use guano tea and kelp...

Guano Tea and Kelp:

Seedlings less than 1 month old nute tea mix-
Mix 1 cup earthworm castings into 5 gallons of water to make the tea.
Add 5 tbs. Black Strap Molasses.
Use it to water your seedlings with every 3rd watering.

Veg mix-
1/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano (PSG)
1/3 cup High N Bat Guano (Mexican)
1/3 cup Earth Worm Castings (EWC)
5 tsp. Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract
(That makes the "dry mix". You can make all you want and save it to use later.)
Mix with water @ 1 cup of dry mix into 5 gallons of water to make the tea.
To that 5 gallons of tea add:
5 tbs. Liquid Karma
5 tbs. Black Strap Molasses
Use it to water with every 3rd watering.

Flowering nute tea mix:
2/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano
2/3 cup Earth Worm Castings
2/3 cup High P Guano (Indonesian or Jamaican)
5 tsp. Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract
(That makes the "dry mix". You can make all you want and save it to use later.)
Mix with water @ 2 cups of dry mix into 5 gallons of water to make the tea.
To that 5 gallons of tea add:
5 tbs. Liquid Karma
5 tbs. Black Strap Molasses
Use it to water with EVERY watering.

You can use queen size knee high nylon stockings for tea bags. 3 pair for a dollar at the dollar store. Tell 'em you use them for paint strainers. Put the recommended tea in the stocking, tie a loop knot in it and hang it in your tea bucket. The tea should look like a mud puddle. Agitate the bag in the water vigorously. An aquarium pump and air stone will dissolve oxygen into the solution and keep the good bacteria (microherd) alive and thriving. Let it bubble a day or two before you use it. If you find you are making too much tea and having to throw it out, use 2 1/2 gallons of water and cut the nute amount by half.


RECIPE #4
Three Little Birds Method
40 gallons used soil
4 cups alfalfa meal
4 cups bone meal
4 cups kelp meal
4 cups powdered dolomite lime
30 pound bag of earthworm castings . . .
That’s the basic recipe . . .
However we also like to use
4 cups of Greensand
4 cups of Rock Phosphate
4 cups of diatomaceous earth


RECIPE #5
Fish and Seaweed (This is sooo easy)

For veg growth…
1 capful 5-1-1 Fish Emulsion
1 capful Neptune's Harvest 0-0-1 Seaweed or Maxicrop liquid
1 gallon H2O

For early flowering…
1 tbs. Neptune’s Harvest 2-3-1 Fish/Seaweed
1 gallon H2O

For mid to late flowering…
1 tbs. Neptune’s Harvest 2-4-1 Fish
1 gallon H2O


And now for some more good tips...

Organic pH issues

I hear a lot of people asking or talking about the pH of their organic soil mix or organic nute solution and how they might correct or adjust it. pH in organics is not an issue like it is in synthetic growing.
The best place to settle the pH issues in organics is within the grow medium. A medium rich in humates (humus) is the place to start. Humates work to "buffer" the pH of organic mediums and the nutes you pour (or mix) into it.
Humates come from compost, worm castings and bottled humus. If you use a peat based medum, use dolomite lime to raise the pH of the acidic peat. Dolomite should be used in any soil or soiless medium to provide magnesium and calcium. But since we are talking about pH here, I'll mention dolomite lime's pH correction benefits.
A medium of coir has a pH near neutral (or 7.0). But humates are still neded to allow uptake of organic nutrients that are outside a near neutral pH range.
With an active medium rich in humates you can pour in nutes like Pure Blend Pro, Earth Juice and guano teas way outside the optimum pH range without worry. The humus will allow the nutes to be taken up through the roots, even at such an extreme pH reading.
So throw those pH meters away folks and enjoy the ease and safety of organic gardening.

Chlorine tap water

Just a word of caution for you organic heads out there...
If you are tapped onto a municipal water supply that uses chlorine to kill bacteria in the water, it'll do the same thing to the bacteria (microherd) in your organic food source.
Always bubble your municipal water in an open container (5 gallon bucket) for 24 hours before adding ANYTHING organic to it.

Flushing

There is absolutely no reason to "flush" organic nute solutions from your soil mix. In an organic grow, the plants don't take up the organic nutes (guano, bone, blood or kelp). The bacteria eat the organic nutes and excrete food that the plant can feed off of. So the organic nutes don't need to be flushed because they never enter the plant. And besides, meals like kelp, bone and blood along with worm castings and dolomite can't be flushed from your soil mix anyway. If you use guano and seaweed, try using plain water or worm casting tea for your last watering or two so the plant can use up what's left in the soil. But drowning your soil with water isn't necessary.

Burn1

Hi B1,

I will be using soiless mix number 2 and was wondering, do I wet the pro mix before mixing in the other parts (worm castings, dolomite, etc.) or do I leave it dry (the pro mix) and mix in the others?

Oh, can I use Big Bud (AN) with recipe #3?

Thanks a lot!

 

[BurnOne]

Mix the items dry for your soil mix.
FOLLOW THE RECIPE!
Burn1

 

[vonforne]

Getting ready for the transplant. Using LC#2 with the bone, blood etc.
In my room, I have my 50 gal rez still hooked up to a RO filter from my hydro runs.

1) My water is about 7.6ph and >150ppm. do i even need the RO anymore?

2) What soil topping, if any would you all recommend for fungas gnats and moisture retention?

Thanks

I keep my water around 6 to 7 but the soil can buffer that little bit. You could un hook it and it will be alright.

Gnats use play sand but if you go that route take some vinegar to the store and see if the sand is caustic.

OR

you can top off with perlite........it keeps the soil surface dry and the gnats cannot lay their eggs.

Get rid of the gnats first and then deal with the moisture retention approach.

V

 

[mad librettist]

Gnats use play sand but if you go that route take some vinegar to the store and see if the sand is caustic.

"mommy, mommy, my skin burns. can i get out of the sandbox?"

"Just play with your tonka truck sweetie. Only acidic amendments burn".

 

[PrinceOfPersia]

I have one question. Its about dolomitelime.
It comes wuth different mg % doses. Some are 3.5% and some ive seen have been up to 10%.

Will my plants suffer mg def if i use the 3.5% mg content dolomite lime in the same doses u guys recommend?

Thnx Pop

 

[bigbudbobfrombc]

I can buy 30lbs of worm castings for $20 a bag. How many cubic feet would this be?

Thanks!

 

[Clackamas Coot]

BurnOne or Vonforme

I have available to me an organic coconut coir product from the Philippine Islands. It's running $7.50 for 2 c.f.

Any opinion on using this product for a LC mix vs. peat moss? Organic Peat Moss is also available out of Canada.

I'd appreciate any opinion(s) about one product over the other. If it matters I will be using pumice (locally sourced) over perlite or vermiculite.

Thanks!

CC

 

[Zendo]

BurnOne or Vonforme

I have available to me an organic coconut coir product from the Philippine Islands. It's running $7.50 for 2 c.f.

Any opinion on using this product for a LC mix vs. peat moss? Organic Peat Moss is also available out of Canada.
CC

I was wondering the same thing last night.While maybe/maybe not the same as what you are talking about, I was looking at Sun Gro's "just coir" and wondering if/how it could be substituted. I was planning today to look into this, and how coir is with water, mixing, etc..
Never used it before, but curious.