- Opiated Thai Sticks: Myth or Truth? -

[therevverend]

I have a theory that since opiates are out of fashion now, people are changing their tune, whitewashing the opium out of history. This is what Hammerhead has to say about opiated Thai sticks in 2020.

If shady people where growing hemp than packaged it like sticks I could see adding opium to try and make it a product that would sale.. There's a reason people do stuff like this. If its good Thai adding opium would turn it to crap for most plus your market just dropped by 90% since most didn't use opium. If I was given it back than I wouldn't have smoked it.

Okay, I disagree, people love to mix drugs. You can smoke the best pot in the world and enjoy a cold beer, or a tasty Mai Thai, or some mushrooms, or demerol with a codeine chaser. It's Hammer's opinion. Or is it? I also think it's heroic that Hammer would boldly refuse to use such a dangerous and evil drug as opium. Or would he?

This isn't the only thread on IC about opiated Thai sticks. In 2012 there was a different thread and before the Opioid Epidemic Hammer had a different opinion about smoking opiated Thai stick.

I have had sticks dipped back in the late 70,s early 80's.. There was no question that these had opium on them. We all know what being high is like no big deal. dipped Thai Sticks would make you very dopey lethargic slow motion. Sometimes I got sick.. These where not around very often. Im pretty sure I enjoyed them half a dozen times back then...

Sorry Hammer baby, but after all the shit I've been getting you know I'm going to milk this one. Just like one of those sweet sweet opium poppies. Give papa some of the good stuff..

And the link to the post.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=5243890&postcount=50

and the thread.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=222619&page=5

I hope it doesn't mysteriously get edited at some point. (Although I sort of expect it to. I should add I respect Hammer and hope people don't turn on him for his metamorphosis. The people with torches and pitchforks looking for opium users are many..) Maybe the reason for the switch in attitude is that Hammer is a respectable seed breeder now? Just like Sam is a respectable businessman and the rest of you ex-opiated hash stick tokers are...responsible citizens..has 'legalization' changed people?

 

[Donald Mallard]

Hypothetical scenarios that could be completely wrong. You're grasping at straws.



Are there roads in Thailand? Are there planes? Do the drug labs exist in the fields where the stuff grows? You haven't proven anything.

I know someone with FIRSTHAND knowledge, not speculation, who actually opened the bales containing imported opiated Thai sticks. You've completely ignored it and dismissed it as some sort of fantasy. Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny? What the hell are you talking about? Could you be more insulting to me and my friend? People on here accept all sorts of origin myths, ridiculous or not without batting an eye. Along with all the conspiracy theories. But I tell my story and I'm fucking the fucking tooth fairy? Since your precious Thai sticks are too damn holy to ever be tainted by something you don't like.

hey rev ,, go to thailand , check it out , learn about people ,

the different provinces and the vast difference in the poeple living in one to another , particularly a northern area vs a north eastern area ,
then come back and apologize for questioning the folks that have been there and know what you dont ..

your just spouting off man and have no idea of what you are talking about or the country and what happens ,


honestly i dont care if i have insulted you for spreading bullshit stories that cannot be substantiated ,, expect it when u do stuff like that .. or come up with some irrefutable proof and hard evidence other than just speculation and hearsay ,
thats how shit gets done man , and u well know it ...

 

[therevverend]

Your post seems to be a 'I have to get in the last word to show I'm right' type post. Going to Thailand in 2020 as a tourist or anthropologist has no bearing on whether batches of Thai stick in the 1970s were opiated. Strangely you didn't mention the last topic I raised. I'm curious Donald what you think about my last post? Maybe your memories have changed in the last 10 years?

honestly i dont care if i have insulted you for spreading bullshit stories that cannot be substantiated ,, expect it when u do stuff like that .. or come up with some irrefutable proof and hard evidence other than just speculation and hearsay ,
thats how shit gets done man , and u well know it ...

Okay you've said what you think about me, as a man. You're saying I'm a liar and a bullshit artist. I'm a spreader of heresy and lies. Horns and all. Thanks man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Xz7WfVYxok

 

[Dirt Life]

It seems every story in this thread is opinionated and without evidence, both sides. But, still fascinating to read. I once entertained growing out my own opium poppies, they are perfectly legal to do so... the crime happens as soon as you score the pods to extract the latex. Anyways, when I learned what's involved, yeah.. no. Too much hassle, so little yield. A lot of flowers for a little bit of opium.


But, like I said, fascinating thread... awesome life experiences.

 

[musigny23]

It seems every story in this thread is opinionated and without evidence, both sides.

Those who don't believe they existed have no burden of proof. No court of law or peer reviewed journal works that way. Those who insist they did must provide compelling evidence, beyond anecdotal assertions unsupported by anything other than my friend who told me is a good guy who would never lie or I remember buying them and smoking them (placebo effect?). Testimonials aren't sufficient.

 

[Donald Mallard]

Your post seems to be a 'I have to get in the last word to show I'm right' type post. Going to Thailand in 2020 as a tourist or anthropologist has no bearing on whether batches of Thai stick in the 1970s were opiated. Strangely you didn't mention the last topic I raised. I'm curious Donald what you think about my last post? Maybe your memories have changed in the last 10 years?



Okay you've said what you think about me, as a man. You're saying I'm a liar and a bullshit artist. I'm a spreader of heresy and lies. Horns and all. Thanks man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Xz7WfVYxok

hope you see what you want to see there man ,
it will take a little study in order to work out how and why myself and others that have been there plenty can say what we did about the logistics of the mixing drugs deal you wanna believe in ,


and also how some poor isaan farmers were paying for tonnes of opium to then mix with their thai sticks and give away at the same price as the ordinary thai sticks , how they got it across the provinces , etc etc etc ...



i mean dont u even question it a little bit despite what your friend says t hat also never went to thailand and is just convinced of something that he has absolutely no proof of ??



you are simply repeating what someone u plainly trust has told you,

as humans we need to question everything other humans tell us, as your friend should have before he rattled off some bullshit to you , and u should have questioned him also , people exaggerate , they even lie , im sure i dont need to tell you this ...

Those who don't believe they existed have no burden of proof. No court of law or peer reviewed journal works that way. Those who insist they did must provide compelling evidence, beyond anecdotal assertions unsupported by anything other than my friend who told me is a good guy who would never lie or I remember buying them and smoking them (placebo effect?). Testimonials aren't sufficient.

spot on musigny , only unsubstantiated claims , they are no proof of anything,
even the thais say its not true , but some western folks who have no first hand experience wanna believe what their buddy who also has no first hand experience told them because he scored them good pot ...

crazy humans ..

 

[therevverend]

Those who don't believe they existed have no burden of proof. No court of law or peer reviewed journal works that way. Those who insist they did must provide compelling evidence, beyond anecdotal assertions unsupported by anything other than my friend who told me is a good guy who would never lie or I remember buying them and smoking them (placebo effect?). Testimonials aren't sufficient.

But doesn't that work the other way? Doesn't the burden of proof require Donald to prove that no Thai stick was ever opiated? To insist that anyone who claims to have seen or smoked opiated Thai stick is a liar? He and you have said 'it's a fantasy like Santa Claus'? Prove it!

Compelling evidence includes eye witness testimony. Eye witness testimony is admitted in a court of law. Written accounts count as eye witness testimony and I've found numerous written first hand accounts documenting opiated Thai sticks, as well as several trustworthy witnesses who have told me their accounts orally. This counts in a court of law. In fact I found evidence of an American court of law discussing opiated Thai sticks like they existed! I don't know why you're bringing up 'peer reviewed scientific journals' it's irrelevant. Science works differently then anything else, I don't think you understand what 'peer review' means.

As far as placebo effect, we've gone over it ad nauseum. Cannabis doesn't give you the spins or cause withdrawal symptoms. The effects of Thai cannabis have been discussed and documented. They are not the same as opiates.

honestly i dont care if i have insulted you for spreading bullshit stories that cannot be substantiated ,, expect it when u do stuff like that .. or come up with some irrefutable proof and hard evidence other than just speculation and hearsay ,
thats how shit gets done man , and u well know it ...

Yeah. I know how shit gets done around here and I know you don't care. I know how you and the rest like you do shit now. You need a signed contract, or a lawyer, or you've got to be published in a scientific journal. Or it gives you the right to call someone a liar or rip them off. Before when someone gave you their word, and looked you in the eye, and shook your hand, that was it. Money wasn't everything.

Jeez, every time I look at this page it's another attack. It's interesting stuff, the psychology. Wasn't why I came here, I found this amusing article in Food and Wine magazine. If the logic is that opiating Thai stick is a waste of money and good opium, what about noodles?

https://www.foodandwine.com/news/chinese-restaurant-busted-serving-opium-laced-noodles

If the noodles are laced why not Thai sticks?

Jesus Christ, still trolling me Donald?

as humans we need to question everything other humans tell us, as your friend should have before he rattled off some bullshit to you , and u should have questioned him also , people exaggerate , they even lie , im sure i dont need to tell you this ...

Jesus Christ man. I already did question him, you think I'm not a fucking skeptic? I'll ask you a question, random internet troll Mallard. We're talking about a man I've known since I was a child, who I care deeply for and who deeply cares for me? People have relationships with their loved ones, the people they share experiences with. This man has had numerous opportunities to lie to me, to do me harm, to steal from me with no repercussions. And, of all things, when I asked him to tell me his story the other day, he'd make the whole thing up..why? And then why would I give your opinion vs his life experince more weight? This is all it is, your opinion, not fact. Along with the other people I know, who've corroborated what he said, plus all the people who have written their experiences on the internet that corroborate what he's told me. Why is your precious opinion, that you don't think there was ever an opiated Thai stick, weigh more? Versus what other people actually saw and smoked? But we've already been over this shit.

I don't know, why is this so important to you? Following around everyon makes on this thread, insisting they're lying if they say they saw opiated Thai stick. You said your opinion on page one, you 'never saw opiated sticks in Thailand, you don't think they would transport cannabis from the fields to a place with opium to dose it'. What's wrong with just saying that and leaving it at that? Why is your opinion so much more right then other peoples', not not just their opinions but life experiences? I have trouble wrapping my head around some people's egos, the arrogance, its the sort of thing I could never do. Telling someone they're a liar because they experienced something I didn't experience. Hell, if someone told me they saw the Tooth Fairy I'd say that's unlikely but I suppose it's a possibility.

 

[Donald Mallard]

geez rev does someone that questions you have to be a troll ,
seriously man , i am not a troll , its more like you are doing that ,
and yes the burden of proof is on you since its your claim ..



i never called you a liar either are u a victim rev .. ??, your like a dog with a bone here while saying its the other party ...



im out man ,, you can think what you like ,, have fake experiences and think they were real , i prefer truth and i do question everything ....

ill allow you the last word even though u say its what im chasing but i know you wont be able to help yourself carry on .... enjoy your fantasy world ...

 

[mexweed]

DJ Short talks about them on the pot cast, they would use the water leftover from cooking heroin

 

[J-Icky]

Ok if they used heroin water then those sticks would’ve been VERY EASY to pick from the regular herb ones. Anyone that knows the basics of making heroin knows that to turn morphine to heroin you need acetic anhydride which would give a very strong odor of vinegar to the herb.

 

[Maggotbrain]

Peter Maguire interview

Peter Maguire interview

Peter Maguire is a historian who teamed up with a former thai stick smuggler, Mike Ritter, to write "Thai Stick: Surfers, Scammers, and the Untold Story of the Marijuana Trade". below is an excerpt from an interview Maguire did in which he breafly discusses the subject of opiated sticks. Ritter lived in Thailand and set up loads to be shipped to the US. He smuggled thousands of tons. These fellows seem to think the opium legend is BS. I tend to believe them over some random dude on the internet. No offence to anyone who self-identifies as random.

Q: What is a Thai stick? I always thought it was marijuana wrapped around a stick and enhanced with other drugs. This is from Curious in Tennessee.

PM: That is an urban myth. Basically at the time and growing up I thought the same and they would say, oh, it’s opiated Thai stick, they’re dipped in opium, but in fact it was incredibly strong cannabis sativa that was masterfully tied to a piece of, a small piece of bamboo, often with a thread of hemp fiber. And it was just like so many things in Thailand, they tie them to a stick and in the northeast they would take the marijuana and tie it to a stick and then keep it in the kitchen and then when they wanted to smoke it, they would wrap it with often just newspaper and pull the stick out and smoke it. So that’s the genesis of the Thai stick and it’s a very small window, it’s like ’74 to ’76, ’77, and then the Thais get greedy and they overproduce it and this little boutique industry disappears. An interesting side-note, the first marijuana I ever smoked, at ten years old, my neighbor stole a Thai stick from his neighbor and we wrapped it in a piece of notebook paper and the ensuing intoxication was so strong, I didn’t smoke marijuana again for about three years.

Here is a link to the interview.

https://www.cupblog.org/2013/11/21/...-and-the-untold-story-of-the-marijuana-trade/

I would encourage everyone to read the book. The truth about the Thai stick trade is way more interesting than anything I could dream up in my hickory smoked brain.

 

[musigny23]

DJ Short talks about them on the pot cast, they would use the water leftover from cooking heroin

Ok if they used heroin water then those sticks would’ve been VERY EASY to pick from the regular herb ones. Anyone that knows the basics of making heroin knows that to turn morphine to heroin you need acetic anhydride which would give a very strong odor of vinegar to the herb.

While describing this as a process in a sentence is easy, try thinking very hard about the reality of this. It's fraught with hurdles and multiple ways to fail. So much so that I doubt anyone actually tried it and if they did, I'm certain they had no success.

First you would need Thai weed farming in rural villages and highland poppy farming to be in easy close proximity. They aren't. That means either bringing the weed to a remote heroin production location or opium and the heroin production to where the weed growing villages are. Lots of things needed to make that happen and plenty to go wrong. And NO genuine need to do it.

Then the different people doing these very different things will need to coordinate their production. The most logical way to produce sticks is to take the mostly dry but still moist and fresh buds and tie them on the sticks. So do you do this "soak" before or after tying? Plus how soaked is soaked, exactly? What is the opiate concentration in this wastewater? It is certainly low. Most all the opiate is in the heroin.

So then to get any meaningful amount infused, if there's even enough to achieve that, you will have to allow the water to evaporate completely. That will require space to spread it out and time for the evaporation. And by the way, doing all this will add enormous risk of getting discovered and busted due to all the additional time and people involved.

Have you ever taken fresh but mostly dry cannabis buds and soaked them in water? And then dried them out again? It does not make them better and certainly doesn't result in a really premium smoke.

All you have to do is really think it through for a few minutes and you (should) realize it's simply farfetched and ridiculous, despite the sincere testimonials and deeply felt romantic notions so vigorously expressed here.

Peter Maguire is a historian who teamed up with a former thai stick smuggler, Mike Ritter, to write "Thai Stick: Surfers, Scammers, and the Untold Story of the Marijuana Trade". below is an excerpt from an interview Maguire did in which he briefly discusses the subject of opiated sticks. Ritter lived in Thailand and set up loads to be shipped to the US. He smuggled thousands of tons. These fellows seem to think the opium legend is BS. I tend to believe them over some random dude on the internet. No offense to anyone who self-identifies as random.

Q: What is a Thai stick? I always thought it was marijuana wrapped around a stick and enhanced with other drugs. This is from Curious in Tennessee.

PM: That is an urban myth. Basically at the time and growing up I thought the same and they would say, oh, it’s opiated Thai stick, they’re dipped in opium, but in fact it was incredibly strong cannabis sativa that was masterfully tied to a piece of, a small piece of bamboo, often with a thread of hemp fiber.

Aside from the ability to detach from the emotional desire to make the myth align with deeply held belief, and logically determine it was just a myth, that statement from Peter Maguire should settle it.

 

[Donald Mallard]

im still certain the believers wont be convinced even from a guy who live there and set up the smuggling of thousands of tonnes of thai sticks ,
they prefer to believe a guy in their own country selling them the stuff who has never been there , never smuggled any , never talked to the locals , and has a way to increase his profit margin ,
some humans are so gullible ...

 

[Dr. Purpur]

im still certain the believers wont be convinced even from a guy who live there and set up the smuggling of thousands of tonnes of thai sticks ,
they prefer to believe a guy in their own country selling them the stuff who has never been there , never smuggled any , never talked to the locals , and has a way to increase his profit margin ,
some humans are so gullible ...

I saw pictures of them processing them, in 1' x2' grey tubs. They were stills in black and white. They are in a youtube documentary I watched 3-5 years ago. I watch too many videos to sort through in order to find it. I did look for a couple hours.

 

[Maggotbrain]

im still certain the believers wont be convinced even from a guy who live there and set up the smuggling of thousands of tonnes of thai sticks ,
they prefer to believe a guy in their own country selling them the stuff who has never been there , never smuggled any , never talked to the locals , and has a way to increase his profit margin ,
some humans are so gullible ...

"a man believes what he wants to believe and disregards the rest" - Simon and Garfunkel

Plus, I just read a good quote by Mark Twain on the web. He said "90% of what's on the internet is bullshit".

 

[Donald Mallard]

I saw pictures of them processing them, in 1' x2' grey tubs. They were stills in black and white. They are in a youtube documentary I watched 3-5 years ago. I watch too many videos to sort through in order to find it. I did look for a couple hours.

i know u keep saying that but i cant say it proves it actually happened ,
when you read first hand reports of the guys smuggling it ,
guys who went there during the period asking the locals ,
and they all say it was a myth ,
doesnt that give u some pause a least ??



and as both myself , and musigny have said contiually the 2 product were in a totally different part of the country , moving them would have been a logistical nightmare ,and practically impossible , plus the guys buying the tonnes of sticks never paid anymore for any "extras" because there were no extras ..

and since the weed was super strong anyhow why would they even bother



have you even been to thailand dr ??

the geography and local knowledge learned after a few trips would soon tell you what you were told is just a story for a western dealer to get more money out of you ...



seems the only folks believing this story have never even been to the country , let alone been there when the thai sticks were growing ...

 

[Limeygreen]

In the phillipines the locals used to make pork kebabs outside the us base (think 60-70s range) and they told the americans it was monkey meat, doubled their sales. Just because you're told something doesn't make it true but it is a good way to make money off people willing to believe to pay more. I would be more inclined to believe some thai sticks being coating in oil due to having weak herb or something spoiled so they spiked it with concentrated oil to make it seem strong sticky etc then told people it was opiated. Just my thought no proof.

 

[roybart]

If it were true half the pot smokers in Australia 40 years ago all the be opium addicts.LOL
Thai sticks were simple packaging using available materials.
I lived in Thailand, I never saw anything that suggested dipping etc. Just nice weed and simple packaging.

Just like Durban Poison in Durban, you could buy Zols which were just "rooi baard" red beard.It was a small twist of brown paper about 5 inches long and about 1/8th of an inch diameter. 10 for 1 Rand which at the time was about US$ 50 cents.
Again local packaging..

 

[@hempy]

I find it odd Donald that you posted claiming to have smoked Opiumated hash yet for some reason the Opiumated Thai sticks were never real or could of even been real that alone makes no seance.

The UN Drug Agency the DEA and others all have them documented as being real so a wise man would look at the time period and the type of drugs flooding the streets at the time and take into account the evidence and come to the conclusion that it was real.

People were smoking Opium you could score it easily the streets were flooded with heroin so if hash was Opiumated odds are some Thai was to.

 

[Donald Mallard]

why is it odd hempy,
they come from completely different countries and cultures ,



anyhow im not so sure the hash i had as a young fella that was reputed to be opiated actually was , i think it was just stronger hash than folks were used to and so the legend was born ..


and im sure the thai sticks werent , just read above posts to see why ..