So it is written, so it will be done.
Right OO?
Looks easy man.
-
As of today ICMag has his own Discord server. In this Discord server you can chat, talk with eachother, listen to music, share stories and pictures...and much more. Join now and let's grow together! Join ICMag Discord here! More details in this thread here: here.
-
ICMag and The Vault are running a NEW contest in October! You can check it here. Prizes are seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!
OldOne's 2nd cab run - PLL / PPK / Arjan's Haze 3
- Thread starter oldone
- Start date
So it is written, so it will be done.
Right OO?
Looks easy man.
Yeah.
It'll mean what was going on in that chunk of coco when you chopped... after using FNB and Jacks and everything else.
It'll let you see if your flush moved salts out of the coco.
It'll let you see if there was salt stratification.
It'll be a neat little bit of info... and even though your next three months will be dedicated to a slightly different nute profile, etc., it's still info.
Keep adding legit observations into the mix and you can't help but learn something.
Or at least think your learning.
EDIT: Everyone will think they're learning. And people might start this practice more deliberately. And find out super cool info on nute concentrations relative to genetics. Some people might start testing this stuff for residual salts, and start tweaking their nute profiles for their genetics. It could be the future of hobby gardening. You could be famous.
And your cover won't be blown. Until you roll one up for my favorite avatars...
It'll mean what was going on in that chunk of coco when you chopped... after using FNB and Jacks and everything else.
It'll let you see if your flush moved salts out of the coco.
It'll let you see if there was salt stratification.
It'll be a neat little bit of info... and even though your next three months will be dedicated to a slightly different nute profile, etc., it's still info.
Keep adding legit observations into the mix and you can't help but learn something.
Or at least think your learning.
EDIT: Everyone will think they're learning. And people might start this practice more deliberately. And find out super cool info on nute concentrations relative to genetics. Some people might start testing this stuff for residual salts, and start tweaking their nute profiles for their genetics. It could be the future of hobby gardening. You could be famous.
And your cover won't be blown. Until you roll one up for my favorite avatars...
oldone
Member
There's that fame thing again...not for me my imaginary friend. And since I have an imaginary friend...dont they lock people up for that in little padded cells?
You guys wont tell...ah...right?
I really dont get the avatar reference...do you know where mine is from?
OO
Oh am I supposed to let the coco dry out before the experiment?
Oh...
Not that kind of avatar...
I was referring to the the corporal embodiment of divinity... god taking on flesh and walking among us.
Although I like pictures next to anonymous internet identities too.
They're supposed to be your embodiment on the forum. The capsulized manifestation of your humanity in the circuit world.
As for the real question,
I'm going with "Yes, they must be dry," or at least start with a consistent moisture between them. As you add a specific quantity of RO, you will be measuring the effects of re-disolving the salts contained within your sample of coco. If there is an inconsistency in moisture within the variety of samples, the wetter ones will have more water already contained, and your results in those samples will be skewed by dilution.
If you cut your cores, break them up, measure them based on volume, and then allow them to dry for a while with common air (i.e. give them time to find humidity equilibrium), you should produce the most 'legitimate' results. I guess you could also establish volumes after drying them, but you might have to dry a little more. (Practically speaking, just document your procedure, and refine it from there.)
A method to dry with common air would would be baking them in the oven for a while at a relatively low temp (200 degrees?).
Although the household will really look at you funny then.
And might not eat your dinners anymore, if they think they have rooty dirt as an ingredient.
Not that kind of avatar...
I was referring to the the corporal embodiment of divinity... god taking on flesh and walking among us.
Although I like pictures next to anonymous internet identities too.
They're supposed to be your embodiment on the forum. The capsulized manifestation of your humanity in the circuit world.
As for the real question,
I'm going with "Yes, they must be dry," or at least start with a consistent moisture between them. As you add a specific quantity of RO, you will be measuring the effects of re-disolving the salts contained within your sample of coco. If there is an inconsistency in moisture within the variety of samples, the wetter ones will have more water already contained, and your results in those samples will be skewed by dilution.
If you cut your cores, break them up, measure them based on volume, and then allow them to dry for a while with common air (i.e. give them time to find humidity equilibrium), you should produce the most 'legitimate' results. I guess you could also establish volumes after drying them, but you might have to dry a little more. (Practically speaking, just document your procedure, and refine it from there.)
A method to dry with common air would would be baking them in the oven for a while at a relatively low temp (200 degrees?).
Although the household will really look at you funny then.
And might not eat your dinners anymore, if they think they have rooty dirt as an ingredient.
R
redeyesurprise
Excellent grow OO. I'm digging the ppk setup. Looking forward to the next. And by the way, that is the last bag of plutonium nyborg, so you might as well go for broke... 
S
SCROG McDuck
Old1.. very good documentation of your,
questions, obsevations, actions and results...
you saved me asking many of those same questions...
Thanks...
questions, obsevations, actions and results...
you saved me asking many of those same questions...
Thanks...
oldone
Member
root porn
root porn
Well this was unexpected:
2 days after the chop she's still pumping nutes;
kinda sad really
filthy rez and bugs:
here are roots that made to the outside of my base:
upskirt;
noskirt:
I think these roots look terrible, yet it was a nice plant.
had to cut the wicks...no way to save them;
and finally roots in the ppk;
Its cool how the roots molded themselves around the openings.
Some observations:
-while the outside rootmass looks rotted, it didnt smell bad.
-the noskirt shots clearly show my air gap.
-this pic may show a wet zone around the tops of the wicks.
Questions;
1. with so many roots outside the ppk media, are my pots too small for a single plant this size?
2. could those same outside roots have contributed to my ph/ec swings?
3. should I change the design for the next run?
I eagerly await your advice,
OO
root porn
Well this was unexpected:
2 days after the chop she's still pumping nutes;
kinda sad really
filthy rez and bugs:
here are roots that made to the outside of my base:
upskirt;
noskirt:
I think these roots look terrible, yet it was a nice plant.
had to cut the wicks...no way to save them;
and finally roots in the ppk;
Its cool how the roots molded themselves around the openings.
Some observations:
-while the outside rootmass looks rotted, it didnt smell bad.
-the noskirt shots clearly show my air gap.
-this pic may show a wet zone around the tops of the wicks.
Questions;
1. with so many roots outside the ppk media, are my pots too small for a single plant this size?
2. could those same outside roots have contributed to my ph/ec swings?
3. should I change the design for the next run?
I eagerly await your advice,
OO
1. Roots, given the opportunity, will try and escape. It is their job. When you do a cross section cut, you'll be able to see root distribution in the media. Recall that D9s changed when he started drilling out his pots. Specifically, less roots touching the pot walls, and more even distribution throughout the media. Look at the insides, then make the call.
2. Could those roots cause pH/EC swings? I don't know for certain. But I suspect that they can. Apparently, up to 40% of total sugar production is exuded from the roots to feed and support micro-biology in the root zone. If your roots are hanging in your nutrient solution, it seems likely to me that they're exuding sugars into the 'clean' nutes which would mean changing their composition. This is the reason I do not pulse-to-flush. D9 may have a different idea about this, as he does pulse-to-fkush. Maybe the sugars don't dissolve in a quick pulse? I really am just speculating here.
3. Should you change the design for the next run? Take a good look at the 'wet spots' around the top of the wick. We've had this conversation about how I think the vertical wicks might change the coco's moisture profile. Are they pulling enough to generate little PWTish dead-zones? What are the characteristic of the roots in those zones? Impression of health? If you to take the time to cut apart the root-ball and dissolve it's remaining contents to check for EC and pH, profile these differently (as the above the wick sections)? Maybe that info will give you insight.
As for that muck, is it just FNB residue?
Overall, you were successful. You are already planning on adding the pulse, right? Risk of modification vs. Reward of modification.
How long will the haze last?
An interesting at least in my mind, redesign would be to see what happens with a wider shallow container (with your limited space overhead). It would definietly change the physical root zone profile. But I shouldn't forget that you are growing a giant monster in a tiny little cave. Maybe you need bonsai-esque restrictions to make it all work.
oldone
Member
Hi IF,
I thought the brown muck was fnb residue as well. My initial efforts to spilt the rootball have been in vain. They are very tough, I dont have the right saw and there are so many of them in there...
I'm going to do a quick re-design using a media wick and wider shallow pots, primarily to keep roots and coco out of the rez.
Talk to you later,
OO
the haze will last a long time...
I thought the brown muck was fnb residue as well. My initial efforts to spilt the rootball have been in vain. They are very tough, I dont have the right saw and there are so many of them in there...
I'm going to do a quick re-design using a media wick and wider shallow pots, primarily to keep roots and coco out of the rez.
Talk to you later,
OO
the haze will last a long time...
W.R.T. keeping the roots out of the res: I used a heavy felt as both the 'screen' on the bottom of the tube, and a disk cut out the size of the container on the bottom. I don't have any visible roots in my reservoir.
I overfilled the media tube by an inch or two, so that if there was settling, it wouldn't create an air gap with the felt.
To be honest, I don't know how it is actually working within the container, but there aren't roots in the reservoir.
I overfilled the media tube by an inch or two, so that if there was settling, it wouldn't create an air gap with the felt.
To be honest, I don't know how it is actually working within the container, but there aren't roots in the reservoir.
i hope you don't mind a few quick observations and suggestions.
a media tailpiece limits root growth into the reservoir. root growth into the reservoir causes chemical interaction with the solution.
a tailpiece controls insects in the res by "airlocking" them out of the root zone. almost all reservoir dwelling insects float on or near the surface. as the tailpiece projects below the surface it denies food sources and controls populations.
a tailpiece acts as an evaporation control device in the reservoir as it transits the air gap. evaporation concentrates nutrients.
from looking at the roots i feel you were fortunate to get to this point without an anaerobic crash.
almost all of the spotting and tip problems were caused by these things.
considering the length of time your plant takes i would recommend a 3 gal container.
i still like 2 of these. the indented lid on the reservoir is approx an inch below the rim and the grow container with 6" of medium would give you a total medium top height of 12".
being rectangular they would give you room for the float, tailpiece, and a small pump in the same reservoir. plus a 3" air gap.
drill out the bottom half of the grow container and you are ready to rock.
i believe cactus jack mentioned a small timer from hd's earlier in the thread.
after observing your grow i recommend starting moderate DF'ing early in veg. less bulk, more budsites. moderate, all over plucking is the key. pop off the bigger leaves and leave it alone for a week to ten days.
i have been playing around with the jack's and calcinit and really am starting to like ec 1.5 in these things. a nice balance.
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23904&catid=587
be sure to get the dark blue if you do decide to use these as they block enough light to retard algae.
i'll check back here frequently in the next few days.
later and congratulations again on the grow! feels good not to have to worry about it!
a media tailpiece limits root growth into the reservoir. root growth into the reservoir causes chemical interaction with the solution.
a tailpiece controls insects in the res by "airlocking" them out of the root zone. almost all reservoir dwelling insects float on or near the surface. as the tailpiece projects below the surface it denies food sources and controls populations.
a tailpiece acts as an evaporation control device in the reservoir as it transits the air gap. evaporation concentrates nutrients.
from looking at the roots i feel you were fortunate to get to this point without an anaerobic crash.
almost all of the spotting and tip problems were caused by these things.
considering the length of time your plant takes i would recommend a 3 gal container.
i still like 2 of these. the indented lid on the reservoir is approx an inch below the rim and the grow container with 6" of medium would give you a total medium top height of 12".
being rectangular they would give you room for the float, tailpiece, and a small pump in the same reservoir. plus a 3" air gap.
drill out the bottom half of the grow container and you are ready to rock.
i believe cactus jack mentioned a small timer from hd's earlier in the thread.
after observing your grow i recommend starting moderate DF'ing early in veg. less bulk, more budsites. moderate, all over plucking is the key. pop off the bigger leaves and leave it alone for a week to ten days.
i have been playing around with the jack's and calcinit and really am starting to like ec 1.5 in these things. a nice balance.
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23904&catid=587
be sure to get the dark blue if you do decide to use these as they block enough light to retard algae.
i'll check back here frequently in the next few days.
later and congratulations again on the grow! feels good not to have to worry about it!
oldone
Member
dont be silly...
just a quick question;
what should the ID of the media wick be?
more detailed comment later
"dont be silly..." way too late!
why don't you just use one of those sink tailpieces from lowes or hd's or any hardware or plumbing supply store you walk into? they are the most common way of doing what they do under a sink, they're everywhere.
but they are measured od at 1.5" so a common 1.5" hole saw fits it nice and snug. instead of the locking ring i use you could use glue to attach the tailpiece. i recommend amazing goop, plumbers edition. very important to get the plumbers version. a 2" hole saw for the reservoir hole if you glue and a 2.5" hole saw if you use the locking ring.
a 7/16" spade bit for the tire valves and the access hole to the reservoir. that battery acid tool i use for checking ph and tds just fits into 7/16". make a single hole just above your intended waterline. allowing for adjustment of water level. plug it with a tire valve when not in use. a nice tightly sealed reservoir.
a 1/4" or 5/16" twist drill for the air holes in the grow container.
and that's it for tooling.
strongly recommend the 3/16" id black latex surgical type tubing as connectors. figure 3" each connection. regular cheap ass drip line from lowes or where ever. apparently it doesn't kill plants.
i'll be back!
why don't you just use one of those sink tailpieces from lowes or hd's or any hardware or plumbing supply store you walk into? they are the most common way of doing what they do under a sink, they're everywhere.
but they are measured od at 1.5" so a common 1.5" hole saw fits it nice and snug. instead of the locking ring i use you could use glue to attach the tailpiece. i recommend amazing goop, plumbers edition. very important to get the plumbers version. a 2" hole saw for the reservoir hole if you glue and a 2.5" hole saw if you use the locking ring.
a 7/16" spade bit for the tire valves and the access hole to the reservoir. that battery acid tool i use for checking ph and tds just fits into 7/16". make a single hole just above your intended waterline. allowing for adjustment of water level. plug it with a tire valve when not in use. a nice tightly sealed reservoir.
a 1/4" or 5/16" twist drill for the air holes in the grow container.
and that's it for tooling.
strongly recommend the 3/16" id black latex surgical type tubing as connectors. figure 3" each connection. regular cheap ass drip line from lowes or where ever. apparently it doesn't kill plants.
i'll be back!
S
SCROG McDuck
You detail is great, thanks.
“Why am I going to use a 2" hole saw, instead of a 1.5" one?”
because you want some clearance for the 1.5” od tailpiece. 1.5" hole saw for the grow container and tailpiece and a 2" or 2.5" hole saw for the reservoir lid. It needs to be just loose enough to get the tailpiece in and out of the reservoir. Remember you are going to have some kind of screen or cloth held over the end with plastic wire ties or something. You need to be able to clear it when you install or remove the grow container.
“Tire valve, for connection to the controll bucket, is 'above' the
intended rez waterline? I thought rez, 'interacted' with controll bucket.”
yes, the reservoir does interact with the control bucket. no, tire valve for line to control bucket should still be installed low in sidewall. This is if you need to use a control bucket. A control bucket is necessary for those running multiple containers. Second 7/16” hole using a second tire valve as a removable stopper is for checking tds and ph. You could use a cork or rubber stopper here.
In OO's case the single reservoir has to function as a control bucket so he really doesn't need the lower tire valve hole. I really didn't think of that earlier. He is going to use one container as a reservoir, control bucket, and pump chamber because of space limitations in his cabinet.
https://www.causewaybaitandtackle.com/Fin_Strike_Latex_Tubing_p_1501.html
this is just one of many sources for “3/16” black latex tubing”. It is not the one I used, I used a different one but can't remember which now. Price is about the same.
It just occurred to me that OO will only need a single 3” piece and one tire valve to get out of the bulk tank. I keep forgetting “one” container. I am used to multiple containers.
Hey, OO, you might want to use something else and wrap it with something black.
because you want some clearance for the 1.5” od tailpiece. 1.5" hole saw for the grow container and tailpiece and a 2" or 2.5" hole saw for the reservoir lid. It needs to be just loose enough to get the tailpiece in and out of the reservoir. Remember you are going to have some kind of screen or cloth held over the end with plastic wire ties or something. You need to be able to clear it when you install or remove the grow container.
“Tire valve, for connection to the controll bucket, is 'above' the
intended rez waterline? I thought rez, 'interacted' with controll bucket.”
yes, the reservoir does interact with the control bucket. no, tire valve for line to control bucket should still be installed low in sidewall. This is if you need to use a control bucket. A control bucket is necessary for those running multiple containers. Second 7/16” hole using a second tire valve as a removable stopper is for checking tds and ph. You could use a cork or rubber stopper here.
In OO's case the single reservoir has to function as a control bucket so he really doesn't need the lower tire valve hole. I really didn't think of that earlier. He is going to use one container as a reservoir, control bucket, and pump chamber because of space limitations in his cabinet.
https://www.causewaybaitandtackle.com/Fin_Strike_Latex_Tubing_p_1501.html
this is just one of many sources for “3/16” black latex tubing”. It is not the one I used, I used a different one but can't remember which now. Price is about the same.
It just occurred to me that OO will only need a single 3” piece and one tire valve to get out of the bulk tank. I keep forgetting “one” container. I am used to multiple containers.
Hey, OO, you might want to use something else and wrap it with something black.
oldone
Member
Thanks for all the details D9. I wish I could somehow recompense these gifts...perhaps someday.
Anyway...I get it now. I was stuck with the mentality of the ppk supporting itself inside its rez. In my system, they are completely independent units. I can run 2 or 3 ppks in the same rez and have done so. IF sets his media pots on top of his rez and this is what I'm going to do.
I'm committed to using 1/4" barbed fittings and 3/8 x 1/4 vinyl tubing. I'll make it black by wrapping with electricians tape.
I also use the exact rubbermaid container you specify above. They fit the space well and I can use aluminum tape to darken them.
The only felt I have access to is the gaudily coloured stuff for kids and I dont trust it. What about several layers of T shirt cotton?
You drill 1/2 your ppk sidewall and IF does the whole thing. Does it matter?
I have so many ideas floating around right now I better just post this...
OO
Anyway...I get it now. I was stuck with the mentality of the ppk supporting itself inside its rez. In my system, they are completely independent units. I can run 2 or 3 ppks in the same rez and have done so. IF sets his media pots on top of his rez and this is what I'm going to do.
I'm committed to using 1/4" barbed fittings and 3/8 x 1/4 vinyl tubing. I'll make it black by wrapping with electricians tape.
I also use the exact rubbermaid container you specify above. They fit the space well and I can use aluminum tape to darken them.
The only felt I have access to is the gaudily coloured stuff for kids and I dont trust it. What about several layers of T shirt cotton?
You drill 1/2 your ppk sidewall and IF does the whole thing. Does it matter?
I have so many ideas floating around right now I better just post this...
OO
congrat OldOne you are a real green thumb bro.Very interesting thread,thanks for share!!I'm doing a cfl experiment too.
enjoy&relax
enjoy&relax
