Old House. limited electrical. tripping breaker :(

[dasmo]

Hey all.. I got my 400w cmh and ballast kit from advancedtech for my first ever grow.. and i wire the bitch up and stick the lamp in a socket and plug it in.. (was the only thing plugged into the circuit.)

The lamp lights up (really bright) and continues to get brighter while the ballast hums proportionally louder for about 10 seconds.. then the breaker trips.

So house is an old beach house (from the 50s or 60s.)

The electrical has been shotty past such that if 2 small electric heaters are running on the circuit, it would trip the breaker if the load increased slightly more than what the heaters and iMac draw.

Is it just that my house's electrical to too old to handle the load? What are my options? Is there an intermediary device that could smooth out the current? Do I just have to try a 250w?

Thanks all

 

[Lazyman]

If it were me, I'd remove or THOROUGHLY hide all grow equipment, call in an electrician and explain the problem. Stick a few old computers and a TV in the room and tell them you're setting up an office/media center and need the wiring fixed as it keeps tripping breakers. Money well spent, not only for expanding your op but for peace of mind, knowing overloaded wiring isn't gonna burn down your house while you're gone, or worse, while you're sleeping!

 

[dasmo]

Ok, thats a good idea.. I rent, so I'm guessing I wouldn't have to pay for it?? It doesn't seem all that safe so the landlord better be cool with such an idea...

Thanks

 

[HydroFarmer]

Since your renting you definitely want to keep all growing equipment out of site. Based on what you described, your overloading your circuits. Check your breaker box and see what its rated at. I had to replace an older breaker box in my grow area that had the pushin type circuit breakers....took about 4 hours but well worth the peace of mind...and mind you I am no electrician. I got one of those $15 dollar books from Home Depot with plenty of pics and explanations....just my $.02

 

[dasmo]

breaker pic

breaker pic

Thanks Hydro. What do you mean by rated? what should I be looking for? It says 115-230 Volts AC as you can see in the picture. On the sides of each the switches it reads 20A.

Here's a pic.

 

[eglider]

Your existing box is rated 70 amps. Like hydro says, you could get a book and throw a new 100 amp panel in then pull a new 20 amp home run (from panel to room thru attic, basement), or 2 - 15 amps for plenty of juice for other stuff . Your lights pulling only about 5 amps so the existing stuff is pretty maxed out if your tripping breakers. The rub is that the feeds to to the meter could only be rated for 70 Amps so you might have to beef up the line from the meter to the weatherhead.(where street power comes into your pipe). That means calling the utility co. to disconnect ,you change out the wire and panel, and have them reconnect so you now have a main shutoff (Dummy covers on the main lugs so you dont fry yourself) Might be a bigger job than you want if your not exactly sure what your doing. I wired my 4 bdrm house and shop w 220 so it was easy for me but you better check with an electrician. I'm not one so FWIW. I aint a plumber either but I did my own and the poop goes somewhere so I'm OK .

Good luck getting your landlord to pay ...lol . Having been one I have to chuckle a bit. IF IT AINT BROKE WE AINT FIXIN IT is the official landlord motto. But youre definatly due for an upgrade.

Hope it all works out for you.

 

[Elcap]

You say it's the only thing plugged into the circuit...are you sure? A residential circuit often covers many outlets/receptacles in multiple rooms. Do you mean it's the only thing in the receptacle, or have you actually done a receptacle/cicruit map and know for a fact it's the only thing drawing on that circuit (turn a bunch of table lamps on, plugged into the various outlets and go switch off the breaker to see what's on what circuit) ?


If it is truely the only thing on the circuit and it's tripping the breaker:

Get your gear out of the house, call the landlord immediately. If you're tripping a circuit with only 400w @120v on it, you've got a serious problem somewhere and it could be anything...old degraded wiring, worn out breakers or receptacles, who knows. It's a major fire hazzard. Any chance you've got aluminum wiring in there? Seems to have been popular in that era of housing construction in some regions.

You should be able to run about 1400w continuously on a 15A 120v circuit (about 80% of the rated amps if running continuously..i.e. not start-up surging and such). That's why window ACs running on 120v max out at 1400w.

I've got a plasmascreen that draws 400w, and a couple computer towers that draw almost that. Plenty of stuff draws that kind of juice, so it shouldn't seem out of the ordinary.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

^ what he said

 

[dasmo]

thanks for the post, eglider, I'm at work but I'll definitely check that out when I get home

 

[eglider]

My better mind made me drop back in and say that you really should consult an electrician like Lazyman suggested. Mixing old with new is best left to guys who know what's real world acceptable and what code allows.

I'd rather know you died at 97 after smoking a big fattie and getting laid instead of following bad advice to wire it yourself....lol

 

[dasmo]

You say it's the only thing plugged into the circuit...are you sure? A residential circuit often covers many outlets/receptacles in multiple rooms. Do you mean it's the only thing in the receptacle, or have you actually done a receptacle/cicruit map and know for a fact it's the only thing drawing on that circuit (turn a bunch of table lamps on, plugged into the various outlets and go switch off the breaker to see what's on what circuit) ?


If it is truely the only thing on the circuit and it's tripping the breaker:

Get your gear out of the house, call the landlord immediately. If you're tripping a circuit with only 400w @120v on it, you've got a serious problem somewhere and it could be anything...old degraded wiring, worn out breakers or receptacles, who knows. It's a major fire hazzard. Any chance you've got aluminum wiring in there? Seems to have been popular in that era of housing construction in some regions.

You should be able to run about 1400w continuously on a 15A 120v circuit (about 80% of the rated amps if running continuously..i.e. not start-up surging and such). That's why window ACs running on 120v max out at 1400w.

I've got a plasmascreen that draws 400w, and a couple computer towers that draw almost that. Plenty of stuff draws that kind of juice, so it shouldn't seem out of the ordinary.

Thanks, elcap

so yeah.. i'd agree it does seem to be a fire hazard as there wasn't anything else running on the whole circuit, not just the receptacle. And i'd put money on the aluminum wiring.. it's sketchy.. actually kinda reminds me of the father in A Christmas Story with sparks flying and loud pops. Just about the opposite of what you would want for a mellow grow op. Not till I tested the ballast/lamp and posted here did I think about how sketchy it could really be.

Is this a job more for the utility company or an electrician, or both?

 

[Lazyman]

An electrician for sure, I know when my old house got the wiring updated an electrician replaced the big breaker panel outside the house, NOT Pg and E. You would have to pay for the upgrades yourself unless the county housing authority says it;s dangerous or the landlord is REALLY cool, I wouldn't chance it myself. Pay for it or cross your fingers that the landlord KNOWS its a problem. Have your electric heater in there so you can show him if you go that route. I still wouldn't expect him to go whole hog and rewire the house with big fat wires and new panels for you though! If you want it done WELL and properly for your application, cough up some coin brutha. You'll sleep MUCH better knowing that your place didn't burn down while you were at work, or worse, with you sleeping in it. Peace of mind is tough to come by in this game, this is cheap and gives you the ability to expand later as your skill and budget improves. Don't cheap out on power!

 

[Lord Doobie]

yes...a licensed electrician...otherwise, you can be violating local ordinances
I suppose you could also simply move to a more modern site...

 

[ogatec]

fire!!!

 

[HydroFarmer]

Your existing box is rated 70 amps. Like hydro says, you could get a book and throw a new 100 amp panel in then pull a new 20 amp home run (from panel to room thru attic, basement), or 2 - 15 amps for plenty of juice for other stuff . Your lights pulling only about 5 amps so the existing stuff is pretty maxed out if your tripping breakers. The rub is that the feeds to to the meter could only be rated for 70 Amps so you might have to beef up the line from the meter to the weatherhead.(where street power comes into your pipe). That means calling the utility co. to disconnect ,you change out the wire and panel, and have them reconnect so you now have a main shutoff (Dummy covers on the main lugs so you dont fry yourself) Might be a bigger job than you want if your not exactly sure what your doing. I wired my 4 bdrm house and shop w 220 so it was easy for me but you better check with an electrician. I'm not one so FWIW. I aint a plumber either but I did my own and the poop goes somewhere so I'm OK .

Good luck getting your landlord to pay ...lol . Having been one I have to chuckle a bit. IF IT AINT BROKE WE AINT FIXIN IT is the official landlord motto. But youre definatly due for an upgrade.

Hope it all works out for you.

"I wired my 4 bdrm house and shop w 220 so it was easy for me but you better check with an electrician. I'm not one so FWIW. I aint a plumber either but I did my own and the poop goes somewhere so I'm OK ."

I just re-read what he wrote....priceless..lol

 

[eglider]

Hehe,
My buddy the plumber says " you dont pay us to make the poop go away...you pay us to keep it from coming back " lol

 

[Aerohead]

Try replacing the breaker first, as randude101 said, they do wear out and trip easier because they become weak by design. I live in an old beach house too and had to replace a 15 amp breaker with a new one to run a 400w setup years ago. It's probably less trouble to buy a new breaker from Home Depot than to get the land loard involved. Many normal home appliances use more than that 400w light, if your wiring was screwed, it would have been a problem before now. Put a new breaker in there!!

 

[dasmo]

Thanks, that sounds like the first thing I should try. It's crazy how little power it can handle.

Anybody know any good tutorials! ;D

Aerohead... Nice PC case mod.. damn...

 

[madpenguin]

Use the search luke...

The very first hit on "Change Breaker" would be a good place to start.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=117867&highlight=change+breaker

Post #26 and #50

Changing the breaker is probably the first thing I would do as well. Well, after I inspected the wire connections at both ends anyway and anywhere in between that I could get to.

If by any chance you do have aluminum wiring, I'd run an entirely new branch circuit.

That's a neat panel BTW. I collect old panels. My oldest Square D is from 1913....

 

[kaotic]

Throw in a double 20 amp breaker and pull a dedicated line for your grow.