Off the shelf retail store screw-in LED and CFL bulb comparisons

[indagroove]

I got 56 LED segments for ~$4.80 US on an industrial quality board.

A Meanwell driver is about $24 US.

My driver's heat will be outside the cab.

I'm working with 24VDC so no electrocution.

My LEDs are spaced out so no burns.

My lights will be all over the cab so I don't have to worry about penetration. I'll just beam it up from the sides and bottom.

It's still an apples to apples comparison.
Maybe Macintosh vs. Royal Gala though.

That sounds great. I like it. Not everyone wants to solder and connect wires however.

Cheap bulbs...

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One seed, one plant, one closet.
SILs work awesome.

5.38 OZ.

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Yes, I've seen your thread and grow. I was speaking to that other fellow who is yet to post any pics for us.

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$80 for 70 Watts?

And it's 96% efficient?

That means it's only producing 2.8 Watts of waste as heat.

It shouldn't need any cooling vents or anything to dissipate 2.8 Watts.

I don't buy it.



I remember way back in the 90's my friend had an in-dash car stereo rated 300 Watts!!

I was thinking BS...

300 Watts in your dash would melt the dash.

It turned out it was 300 Watts instantaneous peak power for a microsecond.

It was really a 20 Watt stereo.



Be careful reading the specs. especially if they're aimed at the cannabis market.


The new Gen3 Bridgelux strips have a new industry standard of a minimum of 90 CRI.

The old color rendering index of 80 just simply isn't good enough for people to see colors properly.


I'm gonna wait for the new standard to come down in price and stock up on the ancient 2 year old stuff.

Yeah, they are expensive, and frankly I doubt it's even 70watts. The cree 3590 cob chip is one of the best for growing, and can produce around 175 lm/watt at optimal conditions. I believe the chip is rated for 100watts, and burns out around 130w. Typically for the optimal lumen/w, you want to drive leds at around 40% of it's rated voltage, so that may just be a 40w led. It will be a great spectrum for plants however, and have good penetration. It seems like a good (albeit expensive) option to add a bit of extra punch to any grow area. It is true however that you will want at least 6 inches from the light source and the plants, so perhaps wouldn't work for all micro-type situations.

Also as far as CRI ratings, remember that plants don't really need all parts of the spectrum equally, so it's perhaps not the absolute best measure of light quality for plants. The spectrum of the cree 3590 seems pretty good for plants..

 

[indagroove]

When I check my PH strips, I can't do it in the house.
The colors don't look right.

I have to go outside on the porch to check it in the natural daylight.

The sun has a CRI of 100.

[URL=https://i.postimg.cc/y8NKWJDv/20191005_172956.jpg]View Image[/url]

True, however remember that not all CRI 100 spectrums are the same.

 

[PCBuds]

True, however remember that not all CRI 100 spectrums are the same.

View Image

The sun has been the same for forever.

I view that as the perfect we should aim for.

 

[PCBuds]

 

[PCBuds]

Fuck it.

I bought some IR cobs to help my plant soak up green light.

$6 experiment.

 

[indagroove]

The sun has been the same for forever.

I view that as the perfect we should aim for.

Even if it's not the optimal spectrum for photosynthesis?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthetically_active_radiation

 

[PCBuds]

Even if it's not the optimal spectrum for photosynthesis?

I believe that the best light for growing is the Sun.

We're just discovering that wavelengths above 700 nm allow the plant to absorb abundant green light, formerly thought of as useless to the plant.

Our light measuring instruments are biased.

 

[PCBuds]

If every person on earth planted one tree a year for six years, we would reverse global warming.


Sunshine and photosynthesis.


I wanna grow a plant as good as a tree.

 

[indagroove]

I believe that the best light for growing is the Sun.

We're just discovering that wavelengths above 700 nm allow the plant to absorb abundant green light, formerly thought of as useless to the plant.

Our light measuring instruments are biased.

Yes, the sun is definitely the best light for growing. Great spectrum, powerful single light source, and best of all it's free. Nature is great, I love nature. Indoor growing is not nature, and interestingly enough, science has found ways to improve upon nature. The great thing about science, is that it's based on substantiated facts, not beliefs.

I'm a bit confused what the argument is at this point, to be honest. Are you trying to argue against my point that not all 100CRI light spectrums are the same or are you arguing that PAR is obsolete science? Please clarify, but frankly it seems that you are arguing simple for the point of arguing with no clear point.

I did have a clear point.. You need to look at spectrum more than CRI ratings. Cree 3590 cob chips have a great spectrum (one of the best for LED) for growing. Again, I'm not sure what the debate is really.

 

[indagroove]

I believe that the best light for growing is the Sun.

We're just discovering that wavelengths above 700 nm allow the plant to absorb abundant green light, formerly thought of as useless to the plant.

Our light measuring instruments are biased.

Additionally excessive levels of far red can inhibit flowering in photoperiodic plants:

Photoperiodism
Plants also use the phytochrome system to adjust growth according to the seasons. Photoperiodism is a biological response to the timing and duration of dark and light periods. Since unfiltered sunlight is rich in red light, but deficient in far-red light, at dawn, all the phytochrome molecules in a leaf convert to the active Pfr form and remain in that form until sunset. Since Pfr reverts to Pr during darkness, there will be no Pfr remaining at sunrise if the night is long (winter) and some Pfr remaining if the night is short (summer). The amount of Pfr present stimulates flowering, setting of winter buds, and vegetative growth according to the seasons.

In addition, the phytochrome system enables plants to compare the length of dark periods over several days. Shortening nights indicate springtime to the plant; lengthening nights indicate autumn. This information, along with sensing temperature and water availability, allows plants to determine the time of the year and adjust their physiology accordingly. Short-day (long-night) plants use this information to flower in the late summer and early fall when nights exceed a critical length (often eight or fewer hours). Long-day (short-night) plants flower during the spring when darkness is less than a critical length (often 8 to 15 hours). However, day-neutral plants do not regulate flowering by day length. Not all plants use the phyotochrome system to adjust their physiological responses to the seasons.

https://courses.lumenlearning.com/boundless-biology/chapter/plant-sensory-systems-and-responses/

 

[PCBuds]

..., science has found ways to improve upon nature.

That's what they said about DDT.

"We'll make nature better !!"..

 

[indagroove]

That's what they said about DDT.

"We'll make nature better !!"..

LOL, touche. However when discussing indoor growing it's pretty unrealistic to compare to the sun. The simple fact is that sunlight is an ever changing spectrum, not only seasonally and geographically changing, but also changing throughout the day. Not only that, the plant's light spectrum needs change throughout the course of it's life.

Until we can come up with a light source which is able to intelligently change it's spectrum to match the specific needs of a specific plant, comparing artificial lighting with the sun is really quite trivial.

 

[StillOvergrowin]

Ooops, my mistake. I thought this was about screw in led, but it's true they aren't available in most retail stores. It is more than a "bulb" however. Meanwhile there is much convo here about non-SIL which you seem to be fine with despite the thread title. At the end of the day, I thought it was all about growing the best weed most efficiently. My bad, guess I was mistaken.

Back on topic, I'd love to see pics of your grow using the cheap bulbs. Please post pics.

One of the main advantages of the Scre In LEDs is the low cost.
That's what originally brought me to this thread.
I weas tired of replacing $40 CFLs that were only lasting a year or so,
I just saw one of my old CFL bulbs- $40; 42 watts and barely 5000 lumens.


Now I can match that with 3 lightbulbs from walmart and a fixture from Lowes.
No more 60 minute trips to the hydro store to buy a damn light bulb.

It makes my supplies much cheaper and MUCH easier to buy.
Not only that- but CFLs are getting harder to find, so LEDs definitely seem to be the light that will be used in the future.


I have or have run: 125W CFLs, 400W HPS, 600W Lumateks and 1000W HPS.

But honestly, these LEDs make kick ass veg lights. They're quickly becoming my favorites.

This time around, I'm going to play the role of a new grower, and show how to easily and inexpensively get started with small LED set ups.

I'll do some threads on wiring up the fixture. I shot pics and vids on the 1st fixture, but the 2nd version will look a little better, so that's a week or 2 out.
I'm also building small 'micro-grow' style 'cabinets' with cheap materials- insulation board and black poly sheeting.
That's still a work in progress and involves cheap shower curtains, reused plastic sheeting and some spring clamps...not exactly photogenic stuff.

Most of my new grows are ethnobotanicals or other flowering plants, so unfortunately there anything exciting to show yet. I do have 4 new bonsai clones in soil that have been thriving under the LED bulbs though. I need to get the fertilizer/watering down a little better. But they're still almost growing faster than I want them to.



TL;DR



Bottom line- LED screw in bulbs work and they work very well.



This is all a new, low-stress hobby experiment that's given me great results so far. I'm interested to see how the DIY strips and drivers projects progress.



Thanks to the thread starter and to all those who did the hard work before me.

 

[StillOvergrowin]

Cheap bulbs...

View Image

One seed, one plant, one closet.
SILs work awesome.

5.38 OZ.

View Image

I'm going to nickname that set up the "bumblebee" setup.


On paper, it shouldn't fly at all... but gotdamm if you don't turn out some amazing results!!


Despite the light placement being "wrong"...and those weird lights on the bottom that no one else ever uses,... and the flat flouro's in the back and all the other odd bits.... your final product looked top notch.


I'd like to see you do a simple 18 inch fixture with strips and drivers with off the shelf hardware - like the aluminum channel- that anyone and everyone could easily and discretely buy and assemble safely.
How cheaply could that be done?
(Terpene's 18 inch vanity light is about $30 for 3 SILs and approx 4500 claimed lumens- with the domes still on) can the strips beat that?

 

[PCBuds]

I just saw one of my old CFL bulbs- $40; 42 watts and barely 5000 lumens.

My 4' fluorescent T12 grow bulbs are $10 each, 40 Watt 1200 "initial" lumens. (with the globes on. Lol )

 

[PCBuds]

I'm going to nickname that set up the "bumblebee" setup.


On paper, it shouldn't fly at all... but gotdamm if you don't turn out some amazing results!!

Thank you.

I like to fly the face of convention.
Just to prove it for myself.

Despite the light placement being "wrong"...and those weird lights on the bottom that no one else ever uses,... and the flat flouro's in the back and all the other odd bits.... your final product looked top notch.

I'm thinking of putting my two spare strips right here...

Just to irk the purists. Lol




Maybe I'll put them in water-filled tubes and crank the snot out of em'. Lol

I'd like to see you do a simple 18 inch fixture with strips and drivers with off the shelf hardware - like the aluminum channel- that anyone and everyone could easily and discretely buy and assemble safely.
How cheaply could that be done?

Well, here are the strips I bought.
You guys in the US pay 3/4 the price.






And a 24 V Meanwell driver.







Each Bridgelux 1' strip draws 700 ma max and runs off ~19.5 VDC.

I say use an old speaker but stand it up instead of laying it down and line the walls and roof with strips.


700 ma strips turned down to 500 ma or so, is 20 strips with a ten amp 24V driver.

The more you turn down the current the more strips you can add and the less heat on each strip but each strip cost money so you could put fewer strips on heat sinks and turn up the current instead.

 

[indagroove]

TL;DR



Bottom line- LED screw in bulbs work and they work very well.

So no pics flowering under cheap SILs? You have only used SILs for veg, not flower? You only like cheap SILs because you don't have much money or what? $40 for a CFL?

 

[PCBuds]

So no pics flowering under cheap SILs? You have only used SILs for veg, not flower? You only like cheap SILs because you don't have much money or what? $40 for a CFL?

Cheap SILs aren't necessarily poor quality light.

Expensive CREEs may have only marginal gains over the mass-produced SILs.

And if they're aimed at the cannabis market, you're going to pay through the nose.


I live in Canada so I don't have to worry about incriminating myself.
I don't care if my pictures are geotagged.

 

[indagroove]

Cheap SILs aren't necessarily poor quality light.

Expensive CREEs may have only marginal gains over the mass-produced SILs.

And if they're aimed at the cannabis market, you're going to pay through the nose.

Are you replying to my question of that other guy on his behalf? How does your answer relate to the questions asked of him? I am interested in his experience, and pics are a good way to assess success. You have shown me yours, and it's a decent job, although I believe you should prune the under-carriage more. Again, however I am interested in that other chap's SIL flowering pics, so perhaps he will post them.

That said, the "expensive crees" are not that expensive when you compare cost to lumens. The cree 3590 chip cost around $35 and can produce up to 14k lumens and has an ideal spectrum for plants. Feel free to compare the cost/lumens on that to your strips. I'll let you do the math, and see what's really expensive or not.

 

[PCBuds]

... You have shown me yours, and it's a decent job, although I believe you should prune the under-carriage more.

That's true. The under-carriage was starved for light.

With the next plant, I want to stretch it out more (with lighting adjustments, that I'm getting a handle on) instead of just pruning, and put a lot more light towards the bottom.