Of Disciplining Children

[Tonygreen]

I see a shitload of kids coming up these days not getting whooped and it makes me feel old to say it but these little fuckers are crazy as hell.

Let me be philosophical for a second...

When you burn your hand on a stove two things happens, one you are usually scared to do it again due to the pain memory and two your brain later logically remembers not to do it because it will hurt. Now I have four kids, if I tell them not to do something they inevitably do it, a lot of times.

I have explained to my 9 year old daughter a hundred times to be careful around the stove and put the pots with the handles facing a certain way, we cook together all the time, but she always leaves them hanging off the stove, I am convinced she is going to burn herself bumping them one of these days, ive reasoned with her a hundred times.
Now in this situation I am not thinking of spanking her when she does it, I am actually in full reasoning mode exlaining to her she is going to get burned one of these days.

Or a thought, if your kid was going to stick his hand in an electrical socket would you rather he not do it due to fear or that you logically explained to him how his body will be zapped from the juice flowing through it? I think answer.... : It doesnt matter as long as he knows not to stick the hand in. Fear absolutely can be an acceptable trade off.

Probably not a one size fits all for all kids either way.

Another thought, my 2 1/2 year old nephew broke the glass andd fell through a window 2 stories and broke both legs and lived. After the casts came off you know the little shit went right back to the climbin up on the windows. Well until my sister in law swatted his bottom good he always kept going back up there, she does time outs and all that too. She said she spanked him twice and he hasnt been back up there. I dont think that he is going to remember those two spankings but he isnt going to fall through the window again (hopefully) How do you reason with a 2 year old to not go by a window that he already fell out of and almost killed him? I guess some might say its her fault for not having her eye on him but anyone with multiple children knows that is impossible 24/7.

Im convinced if my cousin had the same upbringing as me he would not be begging his mom for 10 bucks for weed and living in her house near on 40.
I used to hear my uncle who was a sewer man reasoning with him every morning to get up and go to work, come on were gonna be late for the job we gotta go, kid wouldnt get out of bed even for his dad! Not complaining that meant i got taken instead and even though i got paid less i was happy for the cash at 10.

Which brings us to thoughts of survival of the fittest. Fear is certainly a useful emotion, it is not bad by nature. If you are scared to do something life threatening that is a warning sign that is valuable. I don't agree all fear will damage you psychologically forever. Fight or flight is one of the most basic human urges and one of the most important.

We're all damaged tortured souls no matter how you were brought up, with issues and weird shit in all of our heads. You gotta be strong to survive, that is just life. Or you suffer no matter who you are. So as far as might is right or whatever, idk man, there is a pecking order in every human situation from work to social and on down, some people have situations that ruin there lives, some people thrive no matter what happens to them and they deal with their lives head on.

Another thought, if you get stopped by the cops where i live not following orders can very easily get you killed by a police officer. I see kids with bad attitudes getting shot all the time!
Just a few random thoughts... The way I see it, in a two parent family respect starts in the home and if the kids dont respect their parents they will not respect anyone, teacher, cop etc...

 

[Tonygreen]

Alright now fuck that philosophical shit, who got soap in the mouth and up until what age,,, got my last taste at 17! That didnt start till I hit 6 feet and 200 lbs when i was 10 tho

I reckon if i didnt start smoking or get whooped i would be 7 feet tall for sure!

 

[armedoldhippy]

Once my boys were old enough to understand what I said, I beat their ass like a two dollar drum if they did not do what they were told. They are in their early twenties now, still at home and going to school.. I could still whip their ass, but it is more fun to take the door off of the hinges in their bedroom and deprive them of privacy if they give me any shit...

 

[dddaver]

I'm an old dude but I still remember the last time my Mother took a swat at me (very probably because of some wise-ass remark). But I ducked and she nailed my sister who started wailing.I thought it was funnier than hell.

 

[Tonygreen]

I believe there are kids you can reason with at certain points of their development, my two 9 year olds are pretty much there atm fot the time being... knock on wood.

 

[BlueBlazer]

The following is my opinion. I am not a professional or expert.

Depends on the age. When children are too young to properly process complex information, a slap to the butt gets through to them in a way that works pretty quickly. As one poster mentioned, the difference between a teaching method and abuse is amount of force. That's why it's dangerous to discipline when really angry. The missus and I usually traded off, cooler head takes care of the discipline.

When they get old enough, you discuss their behavior and ask them what their punishment should be. You have to teach them early on that suggesting a really light punishment will result in a heavy punishment. This teaches them that they are directly accountable for their own actions and helps them to judge the weight of their actions.

There always has to be a consequence, whether the child participates in the discussion or not. But the consequence should be fair and what it is for clearly understood.

Then when they get to be teenagers, you shoot them.

 

[Tonygreen]

sawed off 2x4 worked on me a time or two from 15-17 before i decided i had enough and moved out, hehehehe

Seems crazy but i was 6'1 270 and my itty bitty poor 5'4 mama, who knows what was goin thru her head lookin at my bad ass lol.... Dont blame her!

 

[xmobotx]

i look @ it like you can go positive & negative. FTMP, set the example & "tell them what TO do" w/ set the example being the most important. you're right that consistency between parents is a huge challenge because you have to establish norms & there won't be norms w/o consistency. but, it's never going to be perfect & there's going to be challenges. how you handle the challenges {the set the example part} is critical. when you lose it/fly off the handle ~you're "raising your grandchildren"

it's all about the cycle.

some negative reinforcement is going to happen. there has to be a degree though. once you get to a certain point, what more can you do? & they aren't going to learn the lesson in one instance of making the mistake.

frequently it will seem like things are out of control. that's just life ~later, as they mature they will realize & they will thank you for the job you did {even if you make mistakes} ~lol @ "if"

maybe it seems skewed but, raising kids is like training dogs or like supervising people in a work environment. w/ the key being the example thing ~whether you realize it, you ARE training them even when you are not. & training show dogs {for instance} you look for the behaviors you like & then reward that to get the dog to repeat it/understand your commands.

you can train a dog to be a machine or to stick around you in the woods & do it's thing under a degree of control because they want to do what you want. you don't quite get that w/ people {or strong willed/dumb dogs} we do not want the "machine" ~we want to raise them free-willed & independent.

when you break it down, it sounds kind of sociopath. & that's where love comes in. keep it positive & keep that love involved. ~no machines

 

[Tonygreen]

You may not vote on any more threads today.

appreciate everyone joinin in with their thoughts.

 

[MJPassion]

I cant recall the kast time i tasted soap...
I do recall it being a bar of Ivory though. Lol

There is a book written from an Amish point of view, "To Train a Child" or something like that, that details child training exactly as xmobotx states.

 

[blastfrompast]

Never got the soap, but I did make the mistake of saying "that didn't hurt"....

Oh boy..never made that mistake again...

 

[blastfrompast]

My opinions on spanking....

It can be a useful tool at a very early age to teach a child that certain actions etc. are DANGEROUS...a light swat to the behind associated with the word NO means the next time you say NO they stop....

My son is 6now and haven't had to give him a spanking since he was mebbe 1.5yrs old if that and trying his best to pull the hair outta the dogs tail...

In that case, a light swat from me was MUCH MUCH better than what a dog would do... Why is this important...well my GSD wouldn't bite him(trained and great family dog), but that doesn't mean another dog won't and we didn't want him thinking that pulling a dogs tail is OK.

Now that he is 6yrs old he can understand chores, rewards, punishments...so no need for spanking

He knows that picking a couple of 5gal pails of rocks from the garden will get him a $20 billand that means $$$ for whatever he wants (toys, xbox game, taking his mom out for lunch <-my fav to date)

He also knows that RULE #1 = LISTEN TO MOM..

 

[Weird]

Spank.

I was raised by hippies.

"Man, we've tried nothin' and we're all outa ideas."

And look at the prick that produced.

This made me laugh long and hard, and being a hippy father it confirms I should beat the shit out of my kids

 

[Weird]

On a serious note I never hit my kids, I think it draw a line in the sand in the relationship so to speak, and alienates them from you to an extent.

I see it as a push it out of the nest and make it fly strategy, which is great if you don't want a relationship with your kids latter on in life.

There are other ways to discipline children, sometimes it feels though that hitting them would be much easier an get my frustration at the same time.

I beat the shit out of things instead, learned alot of spackle and sheetrock so yeah there is that

 

[resinryder]

Never got the soap, but I did make the mistake of saying "that didn't hurt"....

Oh boy..never made that mistake again...

My dad believed in taking a belt to that ass. I made the huge mistake of asking him if he had gotten enough one time. He said no and that he was just warming up. I learned after that to not ask stupid questions lol

 

[Mikell]

Soap hah. I was about 12 when soap transitioned to hot sauce (both administered by the mother of a no-nonsense family we amalgamated with). I credit her decision as the seed that grew into the pepperhead I am today.

This made me laugh long and hard, and being a hippy father it confirms I should beat the shit out of my kids

I wouldn't wish raising me on anyone


I do credit my off beat childhood for creating the weirdo I am today. I can embrace anything no matter how strange, have a broader outlook on life, international taste (food, people, culture), etc, than people I know raised in strict households (see: religious).

But there was a fuck of a learning curve at 18. Being raised by women was a double edged k-nife. Everything fathers teach their boys I taught myself. But I do know how to cook well and have a disturbing level of empathy.

First boss helped a lot. Very strict authoritarian.

Fucked up a job? Yelled at, push ups, do it again.

Lippy? More yelling, more push ups, shitty jobs galore.

Back talk? See above.

 

[Pinball Wizard]

My Dad had an instant cure for ADHD

...he got it at Sears in the men's department..
normally, he just used it to hold his pants up.

 

[Lochinvar]

i think that 11 years old is the perfect age for a slap in the face when ones son is talking back to mama, preferably a slap from mama herself. call me old fashioned

 

[sutra1]

Never too young to feed em pickled herring, lest they forget...

View Image

Roll mops ROCK!

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

There is a big difference between a child fearing you as a person, and a child fearing the consequences of their actions... (consequences that you will administer). Wish I could find it... but there was a recent article that discussed compassion as a guiding principle... and the point was made that punishment administered to help turn another from a path of self harm, could be an act of compassion.

My dad kept a set of wooden paddles leaning in the back corner of his closet. If I crossed the line I was told what I'd done wrong and sent to fetch a paddle (usually my choice) from his closet. The act of sending me for the paddle gave extra time for emotions to cool down and put more psychological pressure on me as a kid. I guess fetching that paddle was owning up and accepting responsibility for what I'd done. I was doing pretty well there for a while, toeing that line, so my dad gave the paddle collection to my uncle who wasn't a woodworker. Then I acted with disrespect, and was told what I'd done and that I'd have to wait a day or two for him to make a new paddle... so I got to stew and ponder his working out back in the shop after dinner the next few evenings. Only time I got chased down and whacked was when I threw a rock in the cement pad he and a crew were finishing for his new shop... but I sure can't begrudge him for that one. Never tried that stunt again. Then one time as I'd gotten older my parents sat me down and asked to to explain why I had done the thing I done. What was going through my head? I sat there wishing that my dad could just whack me with that paddle and be done with it.

I'm leaning toward those who think that an eleven year old may be past swatting age... or at least past the time where such punishment can be introduced with good results. Depends on the kid. The "stepfather" element of disciplining someone else' child is a major factor here. Would introducing corporal punishment here now make you look weak? In the situation you described it really would be best if mom could better stand up for herself. Yes, a slap in the face might be an appropriate wake up call. (Schoolteachers are under legal obligation to report any visible marks of abuse.)

But a nonagitated eleven year old should be able to listen to reason somewhat. You should explain the facts of life where his mother (and she has asked for your help in this) is responsible for his actions until age eighteen. And if he continues to make bad choices then his mother and you will be applying consequences to get his attention and try to steer him away from his self destructive path. It's all about respect. The boy needs to show respect to others and himself. Out of respect for the boy and his future, you will correct his actions. And he has the right to expect you to treat him with respect when you're doing so. But this is assuming he'll work with you. When they tell you to fuck off, it's a different story.

Like any good western there's a code of honor involved here. Your primary responsibilities are towards yourself and your woman. If it ever comes to it you can explain the choices to the boy. He can accept the rules of your household, including the consequences for a boy disrespecting his mother. Or he can be treated like an adult... in which case if he disrespects his mother again to her face, then he can expect to be dealt with as you would deal with any man who showed blatant disrespect towards your woman. His choice...

edit... maybe this last might fit for a sixteen year old. not an eleven year old though. and what good would it do ultimately? bad choice on my part.