Odd shape on new growth

[Niadir]

Strain of Mj?: Unknown seeds I got from a friend.
Hydroponic or soil?: Soil.
From seed or clone?From seed.
Age of plants in question?: 4 weeks
What stage (Veg/Flower; how many days into)?:Veg, 4 weeks.
Medium (Soil, Rockwool, Hydroton etc.)?:Soil.
Container/Pot size?:7.5l (1.9gallon)
Have they been transplanted, if so how long ago?:No.
If soil, composition ratios (peat moss, perilite, vermiculite etc.)? :2 parts soil 1 part leca spheres (looks like small spheres)
Water runoff Ph?:6.11
Nutrients added?:Yes.
Ratios of nutrients (N% P% K%)?:10-4-6.
Feeding schedule?2-3 days.
When were they last fed/watered?:Today.
How are you determining when to feed/water (weight, wilting, etc.)?:Weight of the pot.
TDS/EC/PPM?:?
Tap/RO/Distilled water?:Tap.
Ph before and after adding nutrients?
Is your Ph equipment properly calibrated?:Yes.
Light intensity/Age of bulb/Wattage?: 52k lumen/4 weeks/400W
Distance to the canopy?:15cm (6").
Temps at canopy?:28-32C (82-89f).
Temps at root zone or reservoir?: 25C (77f).
Day/Night temps (Min.-Max.)?: Day:28-32C. Night: 22-25C.
Current air flow (CFM)?: 160Cfm connected to scrubber. Two pc fans in root area to provide air movement.
Is there air blowing directly onto plant?: No
Using CO2?: No
Relative humidity?: 54%.
Growing technique (Scrog, Sog, Supercropping etc.)?: None, unsure of plant etc so havent done anything to it this time.
Has plant recently been pruned, clones taken, fimmed or pinched?: No.
Pests?: No.
Chemicals used to irradicate?: No.
If so,When?: No.

Images removed.

(This is from when I thought I had lockout aka a week ago.)

As you can see from the pictures the new growth have been oddly shaped. I thought it came from micronutrient defiencency or salt buildup in the soil so I flushed the plants and made sure they got misted with a weak 6.2Ph nutrient solution.
It seemed to work for some time and now I am back to this. I have no idea what is causing this and it is my first time grow so I guess I am rather worried. The plants do not normally stand this close I just had to move them around abit to get proper photo's.
I didnt take picture of all of them since they are all doing this curving and "arrow" kind of growth.

What is wrong with my babies?

Any help and suggestion will be taken with gratitude.

-Niadir

 

[smoothy]

Niadir- Ph 6.11? Possibly watering and feeding to often. Check PH-should be around 6.5 6.7Plants need a good wet and dry cycle. Let soil completely dry out then water. stop misting too! Usually the wrinkling leaves mean over fert. How are you checking run off and how tall are plant? May need to repotpossibly!

 

[Niadir]

Okay I will recheck Ph and stop using nutes. The run off I check with the Ph meter I have when I water them aka put it in the cup below the pot and check it there. (Any other methods are welcome to, I only have a digital Ph Pen so doubt I could do it anyother way?).

I have four plants and three of them are around 40cm while one is 30cm. (Since the start it have been the runt of the litter really.)

I'll stop misting also, I guess it is common to mess up the wet/dry cycle as a newbie.

 

[RetroGrow]

Back off the nutes and the water!
You are over feeding them and probably over watering them, the two most common mistakes made by new growers.

 

[Niadir]

Okay got you, and here I was certain I were not overwatering them. Ohwell.

I also run a fogger to get up the air humidity is this also something I should stop doing? If I do not run it I will have around 20-30% humidity.

 

[Rusty Trichome]

I've been growing here in the desert for about 10 years, and even in the summer the humidity in my grow rooms doesn't dip below 35% or so. Jumps to around 55% after watering. Sure your hygrometer is working right?

 

[smoothy]

Niadir-Best way to check your Ph is to water your plants with Phed water until you start getting drops out from bottom of pot. THEN-wait 20-30 minutes-water again with NEUTRAL-7.0 water until you have enough to test. This will give you the most accurate reading. Also i feed -water -feed -water -feed ... this works best for me and is old school way. If yor pots are drying 2-3 days you'll need to repot soon at 2 days

1)what nutes did you give em at what ml
2)what soil are you using-(some soils have time relased nutes em)

 

[smoothy]

I just checked your light distance and it may be allittle to close. Air cooled tubes are about 6-10 inches away. Stationary unprotected reflector 12-15 inches away. Temps are ideal at 75-82. I would move light up to 12 inches if its not air cooled. This should also help with heat on plants.

 

[Niadir]

I've been growing here in the desert for about 10 years, and even in the summer the humidity in my grow rooms doesn't dip below 35% or so. Jumps to around 55% after watering. Sure your hygrometer is working right?

I hope so! I do live in a cold enviroment so not much moisture in the air thought. I don't know really I assume it is a mix of my closet and the air outside.

 

[Niadir]

Niadir-Best way to check your Ph is to water your plants with Phed water until you start getting drops out from bottom of pot. THEN-wait 20-30 minutes-water again with NEUTRAL-7.0 water until you have enough to test. This will give you the most accurate reading. Also i feed -water -feed -water -feed ... this works best for me and is old school way. If yor pots are drying 2-3 days you'll need to repot soon at 2 days

I will test this the next time I will water and I am not sure what you meant with your last sentence.

1)what nutes did you give em at what ml
2)what soil are you using-(some soils have time relased nutes em)

25ml per 10liter it says on the can, it is just some storebought regular kind, same with the soil. The soil only says on the back that it have microbes in it cannot find any information saying it have time released nutrients, it says it have sand, cow dung and soil in it.

I just checked your light distance and it may be allittle to close. Air cooled tubes are about 6-10 inches away. Stationary unprotected reflector 12-15 inches away. Temps are ideal at 75-82. I would move light up to 12 inches if its not air cooled. This should also help with heat on plants.

Ah okay I used a diagram I found for HPS lamps on this forum, it is a air cooled hood but it still produces massive amounts of heat even with its own 180cfm fan just for that which sucks air from outside to cool it.

 

[Peacemonger]

Heat, PH, Nitrogen...Too much.

 

[Niadir]

Heat, PH, Nitrogen...Too much.

Abit more elaborate post would certainly help, I mean I understand the heat point. But now I am getting confused around the Ph part seeing how it seems I have been wrong about the Ph I have been using and it should have been higher.

 

[smoothy]

I meant that if your light is too close to your plants it will cause heat stress issues to em, and always go 1/4 of what is recommended for nutes and build up from their. You can have an air cool hood but it has to be hooked up to a unit to cool the bulb and heat. If it is just pulling air in from the room then it is not being air cooled and you probably need to move the light up some. When first time giving nutes to plants i usually start with 1 ml just to see how my plants react to the food. I normally do this with new strains i'm trying. As for my old friend strains-I already know what they like! As for soil, i always go with organic soil, no salts in em. Probably- Fox Farm Organic Soil works great and has enough nuts in it for the first month so you don't have to worry about feeding em til 1 month into grow. Ph-i aready told you how to take accurate Ph reading but you want your PH aroung 6.5-6.6 is ideal. After adding nutes -Nutes will start to bring down your soil PH so monitor you PH often! 6.5-6.6 zone is best for most plants uptake for food and water. PH water after you have added nutes -NOT before: just wasting time .

Step 1= Add nutes to water
Step 2= Let sit for 20 minutes to bind with water
Step 3= PH water that will be going into pot
Step 4= Pour water into pot where plants are until water starts to drip form bottom
Step 5= Wait 20 minutes to let water bind with soil then add alittle more water PHed at NEUTRAL 7.0 to pots that plants are in
Step 6=Catch enough water to test for an accurate reading of soil ph, thats it

 

[smoothy]

i forgot, put an ocillating fan blowing at top of canopy to help !

 

[Niadir]

I meant that if your light is too close to your plants it will cause heat stress issues to em, and always go 1/4 of what is recommended for nutes and build up from their. You can have an air cool hood but it has to be hooked up to a unit to cool the bulb and heat. If it is just pulling air in from the room then it is not being air cooled and you probably need to move the light up some. When first time giving nutes to plants i usually start with 1 ml just to see how my plants react to the food. I normally do this with new strains i'm trying. As for my old friend strains-I already know what they like! As for soil, i always go with organic soil, no salts in em. Probably- Fox Farm Organic Soil works great and has enough nuts in it for the first month so you don't have to worry about feeding em til 1 month into grow. Ph-i aready told you how to take accurate Ph reading but you want your PH aroung 6.5-6.6 is ideal. After adding nutes -Nutes will start to bring down your soil PH so monitor you PH often! 6.5-6.6 zone is best for most plants uptake for food and water. PH water after you have added nutes -NOT before: just wasting time .

Step 1= Add nutes to water
Step 2= Let sit for 20 minutes to bind with water
Step 3= PH water that will be going into pot
Step 4= Pour water into pot where plants are until water starts to drip form bottom
Step 5= Wait 20 minutes to let water bind with soil then add alittle more water PHed at NEUTRAL 7.0 to pots that plants are in
Step 6=Catch enough water to test for an accurate reading of soil ph, thats it

i forgot, put an ocillating fan blowing at top of canopy to help !

Thanks for this! I am going to do this and I used to have a fan atop the canopy until for some reason the airvented hood went supercold for a few days so I removed it but I will put it back in now.

Temps in the cab itself are usually 28c.

I raised the lamp and watered them yesterday and today they are totally different plants! I have never seen them this healthy

 

[SeaMaiden]

Back off the nutes and the water!
You are over feeding them and probably over watering them, the two most common mistakes made by new growers.

This. N+ (toxicity). Surprised they curled first instead of burning at the leaf tips, but sometimes that's how it goes. They do have the dark green coloration that's the first sign of N+.

If the soil had microbes in it and you've been using chemical salt-based fertilizer, you've killed them off most likely. This should also serve as a lesson--DO NOT follow precisely the directions on the label. I usually start with a 1/8th strength dose, especially when trying something new, and go from there.

The crepey texture of the leaves is due to pH being out of range, bring it up as others are telling you to. HOWEVER! You should know that bringing pH into range also makes nutrients MORE available, which can and will lead to an even more overfed appearance. So, when adjusting the pH back into range (soil should be 6.2-6.8), concurrently reduce feed strength.


Now, this next bit may cause some debate, but I'm a woman who jumps in with both feet. I'm going to say the plants do not appear to be heat stressed, and I think that if you brought RH (relative humidity) up by at least 5% then you'll see better leaf turgor and positioning. If it were my room, I would bring the RH up to 65%, and I think I can say with a good degree of certainty that if you do this with your girls their appearance will change dramatically (dramagically!).

Heat stress typically presents as the leaves canoing, folding down onto or into themselves. This preserves moisture and reduces leaf surface area (which disallows further heating).

To help you understand what I'm on about, learn about vapor pressure deficit: http://www.autogrow.com/1_information/1_vpd/info_vpd.html
Now use this nifty little calculator: http://www.autogrow.com/vpd_calc.php

According to the calculator, when your at the lowest temperature range your VPD is 23.93 kPa (kilopascals, don't ask me what that is), WAAAAYYY out of good VPD range. When at your highest temperature, your VPD is 31.59 kPa, again, WAAAAYYY out of range, very, very, VERY low VPD (high heat, low humidity conditions). Get the humidity up and the VPD values come back into range. Raise humidity and lower the temps, just a bit, and it'll be in the best range.

 

[smoothy]

Remember, just because the surface soil is dry doesn't mean that the bottom of the pots are dry! I have holes at the bottom sides of my pots and use my finger to check to tell if they are totally dry. You also can wait for your plants to tell you that they are pretty dried out by seeing the leaves starting to droop. Try to keep temps from getting too hot. Problem for alot of gowers.

#1 Problem growing = Over watering
#2 Problem growing = PH out of ranges

Sounds like you are going down the right path now.

 

[Niadir]

Thank you both for answers! This seems to have solved my problem and I will give my plants clean h2o out the week and then give them a small taste of nutes.

While I first got some answers here are there any recommendation to when to go to 12/12?

 

[smoothy]

If your thinking of switching to 12/12 heres what you got to keep in mind. Plant will usually stretch 2x their veg stage in some cases 3x, but usually 2x. Your plants are 40 cm= 15.7(16inches). So 16 inch Veg + 32 inch Flower= 48 inches PLUS height of pot, 5 gallon (15inches tall ). Now you got 48 inch plant + 15 inch pot= 63 inches total. You need to take into account you ceiling height= make sure that your able to raise your light hi enough without running out of room. I would definitely transplant these ladies into bigger pots, 5 gallons so you don't go rootbound and your able to create a nice rootball. The bigger the rootball the bigger the YIELD1

 

[Niadir]

If your thinking of switching to 12/12 heres what you got to keep in mind. Plant will usually stretch 2x their veg stage in some cases 3x, but usually 2x. Your plants are 40 cm= 15.7(16inches). So 16 inch Veg + 32 inch Flower= 48 inches PLUS height of pot, 5 gallon (15inches tall ). Now you got 48 inch plant + 15 inch pot= 63 inches total. You need to take into account you ceiling height= make sure that your able to raise your light hi enough without running out of room. I would definitely transplant these ladies into bigger pots, 5 gallons so you don't go rootbound and your able to create a nice rootball. The bigger the rootball the bigger the YIELD1

I agree completely with you, the only problem I have is that I do not have the space for transplanting them into larger pots. Atleast not all four and since I do not know sex on them so far (Or rather on three of them, one is showing pistels already.)

If there were just two or three of them I could have transplanted them into the larger pots I have but as it is now I do not have the cabinet space for it .

I am glad this will be the only unknown seed grow I ever do since I have no idea what kind they are at all.