Noob Questions about preparing Coco.

[Guywithoutajeep]

Great answer and explnation.

Yeah thats what I was wondering too, alot of people seem to just dose with cal-mag even IF there seems not to be a cal problem.

Oddly enough, I've kinda figgured that epsoms in my other hydro grows worked fine. Only in Aeropoincs do I have more cal/mag problems and to be honest I've only bough cal-mag ONCE in all the years I've been growing, and looking at my notes it might be because I was light handed with the epsoms. But this is one of the first times I've run without RO water and run stricly from tap, so its possible it was a lockout.

I see what you mean about coco holding nutrients, question for you then, when you prep your coco, do you typicaly setup for drain to waste?..

You think DTW would keep the coco in balance?

Great stuff man.. cant say thanks enough.

Your right about running cal-mag with RO. A lot of people around here do it, but I still think that the part A of your coco nutes has plenty.

Yes, when I prep it is setup for DTW. Just make sure you set the PH correctly in your last couple runs. Coco takes on PH easily, it's so nice.

As for the other users saying just go for it out of the bag or your wasting your time washing high quality coco. I don't agree with this course of action because it puts you at risk. I personally am using b'cuzz coco, which is supposedly an excellent product, and yes, it needed the whole washing thing. My plants almost bit the dust because of it. I'm not against trying it straight out of the bag, but there's no way knowing how well prepared your coco is. The only person you can trust is yourself when it comes to these kinds of things. When things go wrong you can't say "well maybe I should have tried washing it" or whatever. Eliminate your potential risks and you'll have a more successful grow overall. Be your own quality control dude Just my opinion.

Also, to say doing an initial flush wastes the work done by the amended cal/mag doesn't make sense to me. The b'cuzz bag says you can water up to 8 times a day and if you did that then you'd already have passed the amount of water I run through an initial flush in one day.

Dumping a few gallons of fresh tap then a few gallons of nuted water to flush is nearly the exact same thing as a day of feeding according to the b'cuzz bag. The only difference is the water runs through the coco before you put the plant in...

How can b'cuzz coco guarantee that the CEC has been filled?

I'm gonna stop rambling guys, but when I had troubles with deficiencies a lot of experienced coco growers (not just marijuana growers, but experienced gardeners) asked me if I had washed my coco, I said no, they said "well there you go".

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

My suggestion would be to post what coco you have available to you. Someone has used it. I have only used the two I mentioned and love them both...debating myself as to whether the extra cost for the B'Cuzz is worth it although if you want to be organic it may very well be.

As far as amending for higher cec I wonder what advantage you perceive that to be? Most people use coco for the air space, not the cec. If you amend it with vermiculite you will be reducing the air volume in your mix (finer particle size (or fibers if you prefer) will fill the void spaces and lower the overall void space and % void space. That would make it more like soil and would reduce the amount of times you can water, reducing the amount of oxygen you are getting to the roots...thereby reducing the growth potential.

If cec is important I would think soil or ProMix would be the way to go...but like I say I do not see the benefit of higher cec even though there may very well be one I am not aware of.

Well the last time I worked with coco it was a brick of compressed coco from General Hydroponics.. (I think).

But any typical american market coco is just an e-mail away.

As far as ammending for CEC, I figgured it would be a bit of an advantage to "hold" a little bit more water, at a ratio of 15% vermiculite added to the coco. I'm thinking in a dripper, drain to waste scenario, vs handwater, a little bit of water retention is what I need.

And there seems to be some evidence that perlite added to
coco increases yield. Just speculation on my part.

I haven't actually looked at the prices for B'cuzz. but the cheaper the better, I'm gonna need something like 80 gallons of coco for the grow. But if the price is close, i'm not going to fuss over a few extra dollars for a premium product.

 

[Khyber13]

?

?

Possession of less than 25 plants is protected under the Alaska Constitution’s right to privacy
Ravin v.Alaska 1975

"Possession of one ounce or less of marijuana in the privacy of the home is legal. The status of possessing an amount between one ounce and four ounces is unclear, pending clarification by the courts. "
Norml.org. Alaska State Law Section

How do You grow 1 ounce with 25 Plants ? Lol.

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

Your right about running cal-mag with RO. A lot of people around here do it, but I still think that the part A of your coco nutes has plenty.

Yes, when I prep it is setup for DTW. Just make sure you set the PH correctly in your last couple runs. Coco takes on PH easily, it's so nice.

As for the other users saying just go for it out of the bag or your wasting your time washing high quality coco. I don't agree with this course of action because it puts you at risk. I personally am using b'cuzz coco, which is supposedly an excellent product, and yes, it needed the whole washing thing. My plants almost bit the dust because of it. I'm not against trying it straight out of the bag, but there's no way knowing how well prepared your coco is. The only person you can trust is yourself when it comes to these kinds of things. When things go wrong you can't say "well maybe I should have tried washing it" or whatever. Eliminate your potential risks and you'll have a more successful grow overall. Be your own quality control dude Just my opinion.

Also, to say doing an initial flush wastes the work done by the amended cal/mag doesn't make sense to me. The b'cuzz bag says you can water up to 8 times a day and if you did that then you'd already have passed the amount of water I run through an initial flush in one day.

Dumping a few gallons of fresh tap then a few gallons of nuted water to flush is nearly the exact same thing as a day of feeding according to the b'cuzz bag. The only difference is the water runs through the coco before you put the plant in...

How can b'cuzz coco guarantee that the CEC has been filled?

I'm gonna stop rambling guys, but when I had troubles with deficiencies a lot of experienced coco growers (not just marijuana growers, but experienced gardeners) asked me if I had washed my coco, I said no, they said "well there you go".

I dont think I'm gonna run coco based nutes.. I'm prolly gonna stick with GH Micro and Bloom.. Mainly, its just hard to find coco based nutes thats right off the shelf without resorting to mail order.

Yeah, I'm totally for washing and rising then, it makes things easier.
Its possible that B'Cuzz sets up coco to be used with their nutes,
and since I'm not using coco specific nutes, it might better for me to start with a neutral product.

 

[Guywithoutajeep]

My suggestion would be to post what coco you have available to you. Someone has used it. I have only used the two I mentioned and love them both...debating myself as to whether the extra cost for the B'Cuzz is worth it although if you want to be organic it may very well be.

As far as amending for higher cec I wonder what advantage you perceive that to be? Most people use coco for the air space, not the cec. If you amend it with vermiculite you will be reducing the air volume in your mix (finer particle size (or fibers if you prefer) will fill the void spaces and lower the overall void space and % void space. That would make it more like soil and would reduce the amount of times you can water, reducing the amount of oxygen you are getting to the roots...thereby reducing the growth potential.

If cec is important I would think soil or ProMix would be the way to go...but like I say I do not see the benefit of higher cec even though there may very well be one I am not aware of.

Yeah agreed. F the vermiculite. Now that for sure is a waste of time to mix in. Well I guess I should speak in generalities. Maybe for experimental purposes the reasoning could be valid.

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

How do You grow 1 ounce with 25 Plants ? Lol.

Good question but totally off topic..

http://www.norml.com/index.cfm?wtm_view=&Group_ID=4522

 

[Guywithoutajeep]

I dont think I'm gonna run coco based nutes.. I'm prolly gonna stick with GH Micro and Bloom.. Mainly, its just hard to find coco based nutes thats right off the shelf without resorting to mail order.

Yeah, I'm totally for washing and rising then, it makes things easier.
Its possible that B'Cuzz sets up coco to be used with their nutes,
and since I'm not using coco specific nutes, it might better for me to start with a neutral product.

Ok, cool. Is the GH thing the 3 part? I'm not totally familiar with all their products, but if it's not what your planning on using then I'd at least look into because a ton of people around here use the GH 3 part. There's a thread with a specific nutrient profile for the 3 part that one of the awesome growers has setup for everyone. I'll find the link for you...supposedly its fool proof.

If I remember correctly the conclusion of the thread was that the profile for the GH 3 part came out to around 5-3-5, I'm pretty sure my H&G coco nutes are 5-2-5, pretty damn close right? Also the 3 part has the cal and mag in there so need to supplement.

Coco nutes are the exact same thing except there just in different solution balances.

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

Ok, cool. Is the GH thing the 3 part? I'm not totally familiar with all their products, but if it's not what your planning on using then I'd at least look into because a ton of people around here use the GH 3 part. There's a thread with a specific nutrient profile for the 3 part that one of the awesome growers has setup for everyone. I'll find the link for you...supposedly its fool proof.

If I remember correctly the conclusion of the thread was that the profile for the GH 3 part came out to around 5-3-5, I'm pretty sure my H&G coco nutes are 5-2-5, pretty damn close right? Also the 3 part has the cal and mag in there so need to supplement.

Coco nutes are the exact same thing except there just in different solution balances.

Yeah its the GH Flora Series the 3 part series.

I've been running them for some time now in regular hydro using lucas formulas. Its just some good stuff. Its at the top of my list.

I'm planning on using Rez dogs GH coco formula 6ml Micro 9ml Bloom per gal of water. I ran the N-P-K ratio in nutrasolve and I liked what I saw. And I figgure I could add some epsoms and some cal-mag to precondiiton the soild a bit.

But if you have the link.

 

[Guywithoutajeep]

Yeah its the GH Flora Series the 3 part series.

I've been running them for some time now in regular hydro using lucas formulas. Its just some good stuff. Its at the top of my list.

I'm planning on using Rez dogs GH coco formula 6ml Micro 9ml Bloom per gal of water. I ran the N-P-K ratio in nutrasolve and I liked what I saw. And I figgure I could add some epsoms and some cal-mag to precondiiton the soild a bit.

But if you have the link.

Yeah man I think your dead on and will be successful. It's a long fucking thread, but go to the top sticky: H3ad goes Coco and read through it. There is so much information in that thread about the 3 part. I'd like to try that stuff one day.

 

[RetroGrow]

High quality coco, like Canna, requires no rinsing. Use it right out of the bag. If you pour water through it, you will see clear run off, not like what you see with bricks. I have used both types, and prefer straight Canna coco, although I have mixed with perlite in the past, I no longer do, because most perlite around here has nutes in it (miracle grow), which I don't need. Straight Canna coco is as easy as it gets. Recommend Canna nutes, or the Lucas formula, using GH Flora Nova/Micro, and Bloom booster in flower. Canna coco has no pests, etc, so that is not an issue. It can be used over again, although I prefer to use new coco on each run, as it's oxygen holding capabilities diminish with re-use, and any pests/mold present will be passed on if you use it over again.

 

[Guywithoutajeep]

I wish they sold more of canna coco around my parts. I wanted to try a half bcuzz and half canna for a grow and see if theres any difference. Oh well. I've heard canna is the best coco brand, but thats just hearsay.

 

[Mitch Connor]

I've used both GH Cocotek bricks and Canna Coco. Had to rinse the cocotek bricks thoroughly before using. Canna can be used right out of the bag.

 

[jackiee]

canna coco does not need to be rinsed,just pop your clones or seedlings straight in and feed low slowly building up to around ec 1.6 ph 5.8 this is my way but lots of you might like different ec or ph as we all know what works for one person doesnt work for everybody else. i never use vermiculite or perlite apart from it being a pain to get rid of i just dont think coco needs it.stay lucky

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

Well thanks again to all the replies..

Looks like you coco users, if using a premium coco like b'cuzz or cana do not recommend a rinse.

But if its say a brick form, then the rinse is necessary to at least fluff it up. A no brainer there really.

I think I've kinda come around to the idea of not adding vermiculite to the mix, but I'm still sticking with adding up to 25% perlite. I like the added aeration and water holding of perlite, and like I said before there was a user here that did a side by side with perlite/coco mix and I'm convinced its worth the mix. Not to mention I'm trying to control cost, for some reason, I think a coco cut with perlite is a bit cheaper and has the benefit of a slightly higher yield.

Still no mention of my mollasses coco treatment prior to use. Now I've been looking at the cana nute line, and I'm seeing some things like rhitozoic (sp?) I'm assuming this is the prefered microherd for the coco, so my molasses pre-treat for the coco is in fact uncessary.

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

Coco Pre Treat. Version 2

- Bricks go into a Hot water bath ~160F+ water till water reaches room temp.
OR if coco is bagged and uncompressed like Canna or B'Cuzz No hot water bath.

-Coco is mixed by weight, with 25% perlite.

-GH Micro @ 6ml and GH Bloom 9ml per gallon
Molasses 1TBS per gal
1/4 teaspoon of epsoms per gallon
Compost tea or casting tea (undecided ammount)
is added and mixed to the coco, until coco comes together
Add additional beneficial microbes.

What do you think of this coco-prep?

 

[Mitch Connor]

That is almost identical to what I've used in the past GGW, I loved it.

I had a bottle of AN Mother's Earth Compost Tea lying around (kelp meal, alfalfa meal, shrimp meal) that I used in conjunction with h3ads formula, GH Rare Earth (humics), Sub-Culture B&M and Molasses to make a 48 hour tea. I found I didn't need the epsoms at all, the molasses and 6/9 had plenty for my cindy's.

It worked wonderfully at every stage of growth. Prepped my starter cups of coco with a 1/2 strength solution (300-500 ppm) and watched them flourish.

Here's how my formula went:
(About 1/4 strength to leave room for tea/additives)
GH Micro 1ml/gal
GH Bloom 2.25ml/gal

(My compost tea)
AN M.Earth 2ml/gal
GH R.Earth 5ml/gal
GH Sub.B&M 5ml/gal
Molasses @ 5ml/gal (1/3 TBSP)

Aerated all of this with a pump for 48 hours before feeding to my coco. Hand fed every 4-5 days in place of the regular 6/9 after that. I can tell you that I did see a noticeable increase in a lot of aspects of growth and pest resistance.

This recipe can also be used without the subculture at a diluted ratio to foliar feed. Through my experiences I felt it helped keep the plants healthier, providing an organic symbiotic barrier around the leaves (and in the coco) to strengthen my cindy's natural defenses.

All in all I think you are on the right path with coco. Just read and soak in as much as you can.

 

[SlowCalaToker]

Looks like you coco users, if using a premium coco like b'cuzz or cana do not recommend a rinse.

But if its say a brick form, then the rinse is necessary to at least fluff it up. A no brainer there really.

I think I've kinda come around to the idea of not adding vermiculite to the mix, but I'm still sticking with adding up to 25% perlite. I like the added aeration and water holding of perlite, and like I said before there was a user here that did a side by side with perlite/coco mix and I'm convinced its worth the mix. Not to mention I'm trying to control cost, for some reason, I think a coco cut with perlite is a bit cheaper and has the benefit of a slightly higher yield.

Still no mention of my mollasses coco treatment prior to use. Now I've been looking at the cana nute line, and I'm seeing some things like rhitozoic (sp?) I'm assuming this is the prefered microherd for the coco, so my molasses pre-treat for the coco is in fact uncessary.

Dude, first: thanks for starting this thread. I am going to pick up my coco and nutes (I'm going with maxibloom and maxigrow with floralicious and pk 13/14) this weekend. I going to sog in 2 gal grow bags or scrog 4 in 6 gal pails under my 600w. I'm going to side-by-side staight coco vs.15% pearlite to see if one is better.

Good luck with your shit. This quick little thread here has taught me a lot, and I've been reading on coco for a few weeks now.

Peace and pot

 

[Guywithoutajeep]

I'd try canna unwashed, but again I had trouble with b'cuzz. Also, when I washed it two days ago a bunch of ugliness ran out of it but came out clear pretty quick. Otherwise your grow will work out very well as long as you stick to the regimen.

Post some pics!! I wouldn't mind seeing how the GH nutes are treating your grow.

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

That is almost identical to what I've used in the past GGW, I loved it.

(My compost tea)
AN M.Earth 2ml/gal
GH R.Earth 5ml/gal
GH Sub.B&M 5ml/gal
Molasses @ 5ml/gal (1/3 TBSP)

Aerated all of this with a pump for 48 hours before feeding to my coco. Hand fed every 4-5 days in place of the regular 6/9 after that. I can tell you that I did see a noticeable increase in a lot of aspects of growth and pest resistance.

I'm looking at your method for brewing your tea and this looks like a superior method of starting the microherd and combining the molasses. I've used humics/fulvics in the past and I've just loved them, its a great way to protect from burn.

I was looking at using GH Subculture, but the price is a bit high, I might look for alternatives. I'll see what my budget allows for that stuff.

So I'll have to make another revision to my coco treat before potting.

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

Dude, first: thanks for starting this thread. I am going to pick up my coco and nutes (I'm going with maxibloom and maxigrow with floralicious and pk 13/14) this weekend. I going to sog in 2 gal grow bags or scrog 4 in 6 gal pails under my 600w. I'm going to side-by-side staight coco vs.15% pearlite to see if one is better.

Good luck with your shit. This quick little thread here has taught me a lot, and I've been reading on coco for a few weeks now.

Peace and pot

You are most welcome.. I'm not exactly a noob grower, but I am a noob when it comes to coco.

Welcome aboard, I figgure I'm not the only one with a bunch of questions when it comes to coco prep.

Sounds like you have a well thought out routine. Maxigrow/Maxibloom + Floralicious and PK 13/14. Sounds solid.

Hopefully you will document your grow carefully, and we all can learn from it.

+K!