New v Old

[baduy]

I could compare last season between RSC Chitrali collected straight from the farmers in hindu Kush with Cannabiogen PCK. While PCK greatly reduced flowering time and had better potency, more homogenous, better bag appeal... RSC version showed some resistance to pests, aridity, extreme weather,mold... which was out of this world for the cannabis modern industry.
The day when cannabis will be so cheap that it won't be worth growing it under lamps ancient varietals will be the real deal to work from to develop outdoor strains.
And for ornemental purpose an ancient strain growing gigantic and taking forever to mature like kangativa's monsters or Old timer purple Haze is much more valuable than a modern strain bred for short size which will die in early October.
Those days will come.

 

[ChaosCatalunya]

The market and the consumers are crazy, we move in a very strange world at the moment... With legalisation, markets open and the bullshit will diminish as people are fee to try and discuss different strains.

As growers, we get fads and fashions, fuelled by hype and also we see a lot of the "I want what I cannot have" which is basic human nature, "the grass is always greener on the other side"

So, for now, we have a number of people trying to recreate Sam's Roadkill Skunk, an expression he was repeatedly asked to breed out of the line. We have "breeders" crossing elite to elite and hiding their bullshit behind the incompetence of the average growers and a really small group of people who are actually honestly breeding. With all due respect to a lot of people making great seeds, I think that there are only 6 seed banks who are really honestly breeding in any serious way.

Looking at the future, because nobody else here seems to be... look at the world of Tomatoes and Strawberries, selected elite cuts are sold under genetic licences, all the time, hybrid selected plants are advancing the breed and only the bankrupt do not pay close attention to the markets.

So, soon the bullshit will clear and we will be offered 650g/m OG kush that is done in 55 days, a year later, an evolution of this, 680g/m in 52 days..... That is what a Tomato/Strawberry gardener is doing and it will be coming here soon.

Professional glasshouse growers with plant science Phd's will be coming to the show and will put 99% of the clandestine hippie/criminal growers out of business

 

[Fuel]

So many people chasing genetics from the 90s are coming to light at the moment, it just makes me wonder why.

I'm not ok with that. Each "90's hunter" that i known never started anything like that. They just fight against news standarts since twos decades; standarts that are not attractive to them. To consider that is very important in the equation.

Why suddently they get a (temporary, imho) visibility is a silly manner to formulate the question. I known exactly what are the reasons, for being a part of this madness years ago, but i think that the right question is "why seedbanks stopped to satisfy this market ?" It's a matter of time until the marketing will care of it, maybe. I wish not, if it's the case it will be near impossible for guys like me to share theyr passion outside confidential circles. Marketing will be stronger, as it is since a dozen of years.

In 90's it was a prototype of industry centered on the plants. Today it is a true industry like any other one, centered on marketing. Standarts are just dead outside a cold labo profiling THCV/CBD/CBN ratios, the culture have followed.

The other important factor is the specific turn over in the community and the evolution of technology. It create news needs, and the market react to this new needs to don't let the massive amount of competitors take the initiative first.

So, soon the bullshit will clear and we will be offered 650g/m OG kush that is done in 55 days, a year later, an evolution of this, 680g/m in 52 days..... That is what a Tomato/Strawberry gardener is doing and it will be coming here soon.

Professional glasshouse growers with plant science Phd's will be coming to the show and will put 99% of the clandestine hippie/criminal growers out of business

I totally agree and i will dare to say that it's allready happening.

 

[Weird]

The market and the consumers are crazy, we move in a very strange world at the moment... With legalisation, markets open and the bullshit will diminish as people are fee to try and discuss different strains.

As growers, we get fads and fashions, fuelled by hype and also we see a lot of the "I want what I cannot have" which is basic human nature, "the grass is always greener on the other side"

So, for now, we have a number of people trying to recreate Sam's Roadkill Skunk, an expression he was repeatedly asked to breed out of the line. We have "breeders" crossing elite to elite and hiding their bullshit behind the incompetence of the average growers and a really small group of people who are actually honestly breeding. With all due respect to a lot of people making great seeds, I think that there are only 6 seed banks who are really honestly breeding in any serious way.

Looking at the future, because nobody else here seems to be... look at the world of Tomatoes and Strawberries, selected elite cuts are sold under genetic licences, all the time, hybrid selected plants are advancing the breed and only the bankrupt do not pay close attention to the markets.

So, soon the bullshit will clear and we will be offered 650g/m OG kush that is done in 55 days, a year later, an evolution of this, 680g/m in 52 days..... That is what a Tomato/Strawberry gardener is doing and it will be coming here soon.

Professional glasshouse growers with plant science Phd's will be coming to the show and will put 99% of the clandestine hippie/criminal growers out of business

When things get strange the weird go pro ..

seriously though it is not strange or weird, and I wish to demystify it for you and the last comment because it is of supreme importance.

The state of the market TODAY is the same culture any industry this open and with this much potential experiences.

"These where the best of times, these where the worst of times" comes to mind. This is analogous to the tech industry for which I witnessed as a participant from the very start and still am.

A perfect storm whose blame can be put properly on prohibition has left marijuana a new final frontier in many ways. It is the most complex cultivar grown for its chemovar profile.

There is no scientific standard because the scientific community has been abstract because to the legal status. The existing community from those cultures who have and still work with marijuana for millennium and those who are experiencing it for the first time represent the true body of knowledge we posses.

There is a huge disconnect from delusion and understanding here because there are so many variables from what the scientific community has established versus the opportunity people see that drives them to bring product to market.

Thinking the scientific community has a moral level of integrity by proxy of practicing the scientific process is delusional.

Outside of studied medical benefit like the eventual use of cbd for epilepsy (it should be treated like aspirin and illiterates the lack of integrity in the scientific community but that is a diff story), whatever they know about the plant itself does not equate to performance in the local environment as a cultivar or performance in local markets as a commodity.

But from a scientific standpoint trying to evoke some homogeneous standard for cannabis without local as a primary focus is counter intuitive to the cutting edge of agricultural and medical sciences.

The perceptions from breeding to soil and secondary metabolite interactions here are so delusional in comparison to known science that is laughable.

The worst part however is the lack of insight by the community at large about the product technology life cycle in terms of expansion and sustainability. People are working against a dynamic of creating a flourishing thriving market because they think proprietary creates opportunity, it does at a greater expense of throttling the market and subsequent growth and immersion.

Once again I saw the same dynamics play out and still watch them play out. You want to talk about the negative effects of big data in ways no one mentions? That is actually influences the same way as social engineering?

And this is not meant to be an argument as much as a closed minds won't create new opportunities and understandings in this brave new world of ours.

Working hard and with integrity always made it work out regardless for me. I do hold myself to a higher bar than most including those who are legitimate so I think demonizing a demographic isn't realistic.

Doesn't matter what position we are in life we always have an opportunity to express humanitarian integrity or we can choose to abandon it for self enrichment

Most people are motivated by the later so abandoning integrity is part of the game for many, which is why it is a common practice and even more so in a legal market because no one is held directly accountable.

In the IT industry I always worked proof of performance, that is, if your not satisfied 100% I don't take your money.

That is a self imposed mantra.

 

[Betterhaff]

Speaking of science, this is an interesting article.

“11 key findings from one of the most comprehensive reports ever on the health effects of marijuana”

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/11-key-findings-one-most-180000965.html

I liked the last comment by the scientist…In studying cannabis, "we're not really after the good or the bad — we're after the truth,"

 

[meizzwang]

Here's a good example of why it's important to look at strains of the past, and then realize we need to go even further back and work on developing new varieties directly from the wild that don't contain any dutch genetics. What's funny is they blame the weather, not genetics, for massive crop failures: http://registerguard.com/rg/news/lo...-rainfall-takes-toll-on-oregon-crops.html.csp

 

[PoweredByLove]

imho they must finally be realizing the detriments of kush/chem/diesel bottlenecking they've been doing the last 20 years lol.

 

[baduy]

Here's a good example of why it's important to look at strains of the past, and then realize we need to go even further back and work on developing new varieties directly from the wild that don't contain any dutch genetics. What's funny is they blame the weather, not genetics, for massive crop failures

Here we go
"Kenyon, who owns The Wharf restaurant in Medford and runs various marijuana-related businesses including a consulting firm, Kenyon and Associates, said he will be pushing for higher thresholds for pesticides at the state level."
This is what breeding a handfull of bottlenecked varieties selected for cannabinoid levels together under controled artificial environment leads to, combined with the counterproductive concept of "bag appeal". Now with those massive legal grow ops breeders have to breed for rsistance too and I doubt gg,gsk etc are good building blocks to start from if you go this direction.

 

[hellfire]

Older strains, and I don't mean 90s but 70s, 60s, and even before tend to have a wider gene pool to select from as those seeds are not hybridized and bottlenecked to very little variation. But when breeding we look for variations and differences, much of the newer material does not have this. That's why people are looking for landraces and older genetic stock. At least on the breeding end.

That and the 80s-90s had some great weed.

 

[resin_lung]

I think the possibility to create new and distinctive varieties still exists. The foundations are there just not popular. Taking true F1's to F2 is still the recipe. Once they begin to regularly pop 20,000 or more, to make selections..... I think there's lots to be found.

As far as wanting what we had..... I suppose it has something to do with the fact that truly distinctive cannabis doesn't come around that often these days. We seem to have a need to one up even ourselves! Maybe because most are growing and breeding similar varieties, and the standouts being few and far between that it leaves us with nothing else to pine over.

I may be forgetting some but it seems like ChemDog, Sour D, OGKush, GG#4 and GSC are all anybody wants, besides what they no longer can have.

Does it really take that long to find a standout? That hard to find something that people will enjoy for more that a season. When popping 5 at a time it does and is.

 

[belgowiet]

wish i could go back to the 90's to do some seed shopping...
freezer would be full

 

[Jhonny]

full of what?

 

[belgowiet]

full of what?

Full of strains that i didnt want in the 80-90's

 

[belgowiet]

where is Doc Brown i need a time-traveling DeLorean asap

 

[MTNMEN]

I personally think there are a ton of old farts like me who would love to smoke some of the golden oldies. Also exploring the different highs of these breeds is an awesome experience.

I have nothing against new crosses and they are also exciting to me.

Plenty of time to grow a bunch of different stuff.

I have grown some Panama and it's the balls!
The Chem Dog is badass. Tangie was silly good.

To each his pwn

Damn, good weed is good

As far as breeding goes, why not??
I remember being told a Russian scientist figured out by now humans have combined all the notes in music in all their possibe combinations already. No new music any more......

I don't believe that for a second.

When i was a kid and panama red was 15 a lid, thats right folks 15 a LID! Irarely came across couchlock smoke. I have had a relationship with cannabis in one form or another since 1976'. Tumbridge worlds fair in vermont all the guerilla growers would bring the seasons harvests and anything that had come off a boat at the "coastline" or the "border" up north and most of it was just really good fluffy, sometimes gold, sometimes BLACK even but always decent and never really two-three puffs and i need an immiediate nap. These newer strains seem to be increasing potency but potency towards sleepy/couchlock and not those oldschool smokes that were just "built differently" for lack of a better description. I am willing to put the work in by starting with a landrace plant but i dont know nearly enough atm to do it justice.

I'd also like to ask you guys if the introduction of ruderalis was a money driven idea or was it an attempt to add variation? just curious.

 

[belgowiet]

I'd also like to ask you guys if the introduction of ruderalis was a money driven idea or was it an attempt to add variation? just curious.

I think they saw the potential of ruderalis because it grew in very poor conditions - cold climates - auto flowering gen ( funny thing is they dont mention it in there '85 catalog )

And they where right ... years later jointdoctor came with there lowryder strain

 

[Monsanto Sam]

I really don't think the newer strains are better than old school hybrids. Also the new breeders are mostly just pollen chuckers who do little work just cross one good strain to another good strain and sell it no bothering to stabilize just pumping out new names because like DNA has said that's what the people want. Which is kind of true most want the new flavor of the week but I personally like to breed my own and select the traits I like best.

 

[tingeling]

I have to pretend i'm indiana jones to find one or two strains that are Close to what i'm looking for and still not buy 1 singel seed. Two things I have in mind


- Regular/non fem (where are my balls at?) - growing/planing my own hybrids/strains give me somthing no seedbank/breeder can. My own idea of perfect size, taste and so on (i sure Dream and search), and you learn sooo much at the same time. it helps if you know "the genes" behind the seed.
Fem.seeds are made fore sensimilla


- The real deal - there are to many hybrids or whatever, that is'nt what it promise to be.
Do we need 25 Kush in the same seedbank, 345 different Nl5 to pick one from? And dont get me started on the landrace thing going on. How can a landrace be a landrace if you move it from it's source and being used in new hybrids (not bad to breed hybrids of landrace) and still being sold as Genuin, Pure, 100% Landrace. That are insane.
The myths, originals, landraces and all the strains known today, isn't here thanks to the name, and ofcourse i want to have "Santas killer pancakes from albania" in my pipe and pots but i cant take somthing else like big bud and name it to perfection.


I dont say "it never happend Before" only that it sucks in a bigger way now than before
Before we didn'nt have auto or feminised and all great genetics from all over the World so fast and easy.
I Think we should slow it down and make sure we keep strains and genes around (Think if there were only 1-2 patent on cb seeds one day)
Its up to you and me now!

 

[bsgospel]

Great thread

 

[thejact55]

Cool thread. I'll admit, I read a couple pages, but not the whole thing. Here is my personal take on why I personally do not prefer modern strains. Maybe I'll catch come slack for this, but it's my reasoning none the less.

I am not old relatively(30), and I have no interest in nostalgia, as I have nothing to compare. Personally, I chase landraces as I feel that is the way weed is meant to be, in an odd purist way. We have pushed this plant through thousands of years (in nature's time), if not more, of selective processes to refine and make more potent this plant. I am not one who enjoys being blasted, after choking on super thick smoke, and stuck to a couch. I enjoy a small slightly mind altering effect, not to get super fucked up on some plant on steroids. I've done my fair share of hard drugs in the past, it's not that I haven't been one to get way high, but it's now not my preference.
Also, when I grow a modern strain, I feel no connection, it is a test tube plant in my mind. When I grow a landrace, I feel connected to the geography and culture that has sown it's fields for centuries or whatever amount of time. (I love traveling and culture, so I don't expect people to all do this at all). I love the beauty and diversity of each unworked or semi unworked strain. Is it purely unworked? He'll no, I understand this, whatever culture has obviously been somewhat selectivr, but in a more base nature.
I dunno, it seems the culture now is about the dankest buds, the best shatter, the highest high. I don't feel this is what it should be about. I would rather have a plant with wonderful unique aromas, and interesting traits that gets me moderately high versus the heaviest OG Kush.

Just my personal 2 cents.