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New grow process?/What to call it?
- Thread starter pray4pistils
- Start date
pray4pistils
Member
Guys, the organic nazis really set me off this morning. Take a look at this thread and then see my commentary on page 4 
M
medi-useA-Redux
TND
Member
Guys, the organic nazis really set me off this morning. Take a look at this thread and then see my commentary on page 4
that was a great laugh this morning some people have nothing better to rant about so its open season on them
pray4pistils
I am really enjoying reading your thread and the posts.
I only have one little 'nit' to pick and that's regarding OMRI - it ain't what people think it is.
At all.
Long story that I can bore you with if you're interested. You'll never look at an OMRI label in the same way ever again - and that's a good thing, IMHO
LOL
CC
I am really enjoying reading your thread and the posts.
I only have one little 'nit' to pick and that's regarding OMRI - it ain't what people think it is.
At all.
Long story that I can bore you with if you're interested. You'll never look at an OMRI label in the same way ever again - and that's a good thing, IMHO
LOL
CC
pray4pistils
Member
Coming from an organic soil guy that's a high compliment. Great!
Whatcha got, Coot?
Oh, heck yeah. The Nazi term is really heavy-handed and risks distracting from the main issues... but, it's just remarkable how their tendencies ARE actually deserving of this label. Did you see that vonforme (forum moderator) even censored my joke post? How ironic is that? These people are so close-minded that they can't even tolerate each OTHER.
**************
Anyway, let's see some experimentation with teas and discussion about coordinating them with various synthetic concentrations. I'll readily admit that I'm doing much of this by feel. It's working perfectly, but there's probably a more refined approach to be utilized.
For instance, the tea recipe that I've shared and demonstrated uses ingredients with the following NPK balances:
Alaska Fish Fertilizer: 5-1-1
Budswel: 0-7-0
Technaflora kelp: 1-1-16
alfalfa: (mostly nitrogen)
oatmeal: (no clue, but fungus loves it)
Now, how do we balance these to complement or offset what we get from commercially packaged nutes? Or, does the fact that the microherd is processing these raw foods somehow create a balance itself? (Coot, you've got to have some perspective on this. Let's hear it.) Or... what's the optimal blend of synthetic and organic? Right now I've based my program on 2/3 strength FloraNova with the rest handled by the organic stuff. Would it be better if I went 50/50 (or to any other different ratio) with the proportions? For that matter I wonder if my own plants would benefit if I switched to a flowering fish-based fertilizer. Or, do my guano and kelp push the total formula closer to a conventional flowering formula? Hmmm...
Lastly, rumor has it that TND successfully eliminated his slime situation and has some interesting news about his tea's affects! Lay it on us, sir.
Anybody else give this a whirl yet?
Thanks for PMing me about this. Your final NPK balance seems in the ball park- dif stains require dif NPK adjustments.
I am using FF Grow Big/BigBloom (also used Botanicare PBP). I am pretty sure they are hybrids. Probably switch to AN GMB+ a few additives. Hoping to get a small btl of VooDoo
and maybe Myco to experiment with spraying my aeroponic roots.
I am using FF Grow Big/BigBloom (also used Botanicare PBP). I am pretty sure they are hybrids. Probably switch to AN GMB+ a few additives. Hoping to get a small btl of VooDoo
and maybe Myco to experiment with spraying my aeroponic roots.
C
CT Guy
Don't have much time, just got back into town and am way behind at work, but here's a couple of things I noticed after a quick scan of the thread.
1. Everything CC listed is right on, especially the stuff on the fish hydrolysate. Check out Organic Gem or Neptune's Harvest.
2. Are you using seaweed? I didn't notice, but it would be on my must-have list for growers. (cold water processed ascophyllum nodosum)
3. Don't add the mycorrhizae in your tea recipe, it's a waste of time and money. There's some good evidence that it may not be worth using the dormant spores with MJ anyway due to the time it takes to infect the plant vs when you harvest.
4. Don't have a ton of hydro experience. I'm growing biodynamic wheatgrass in straight coco and have an aerogarden but that's about it for hands on experience in hydro, though I do get feedback from clients.
5. Giant Pumpkin growers (these guys are as hardcore as you guys when it comes to your plants) have broken the old world records using a combination of synthetics and organics. Prior to the addition of organics to their synthetic program they were around 500 lbs. less than the current world record.
6. That being said, they're not smoking or consuming their plant. Their only goal is weight and growth. There are many reasons to consider moving away from synthetics in regards to nutrition, health, flavor, and pollution of our environment and supporting companies that are polluting our environment. I'm not going to harp on your for that, but just want to point that out.
7. I would disagree that organics is hard, the microbes take care of a lot of it for you. I think that any growing method requires a base knowledge and that if you can you should take the time to learn the organic method. Yield isn't everything in my opinion.
Good luck!
1. Everything CC listed is right on, especially the stuff on the fish hydrolysate. Check out Organic Gem or Neptune's Harvest.
2. Are you using seaweed? I didn't notice, but it would be on my must-have list for growers. (cold water processed ascophyllum nodosum)
3. Don't add the mycorrhizae in your tea recipe, it's a waste of time and money. There's some good evidence that it may not be worth using the dormant spores with MJ anyway due to the time it takes to infect the plant vs when you harvest.
4. Don't have a ton of hydro experience. I'm growing biodynamic wheatgrass in straight coco and have an aerogarden but that's about it for hands on experience in hydro, though I do get feedback from clients.
5. Giant Pumpkin growers (these guys are as hardcore as you guys when it comes to your plants) have broken the old world records using a combination of synthetics and organics. Prior to the addition of organics to their synthetic program they were around 500 lbs. less than the current world record.
6. That being said, they're not smoking or consuming their plant. Their only goal is weight and growth. There are many reasons to consider moving away from synthetics in regards to nutrition, health, flavor, and pollution of our environment and supporting companies that are polluting our environment. I'm not going to harp on your for that, but just want to point that out.
7. I would disagree that organics is hard, the microbes take care of a lot of it for you. I think that any growing method requires a base knowledge and that if you can you should take the time to learn the organic method. Yield isn't everything in my opinion.
Good luck!
P4P.. Im doin a soil that im 33 days 12 to 12 with FF big bloom ,tiger bloom , also have some GH Floranectar,florabloom an floragro havt used these three tho..... trying to finish these last weeks strong with an emphasis on high yeild.I no im leaving lot info out but can you recommend any products i shud pickup an how to apply it or your thoughts on using GH products i have with the FF im using.
asstastic
Member
ya the organic are all self taught or by some one over exaderating they all dis agree
really everything is organic some stuff has just been altered for specific use but if it can be found in this universe its organic
on a side note im gona gets a bag of moon dust and mars warter and and grow some weed thats out of this world for real though moon dust has elements not found on earth wonder how that would affect mj if mood dust was refined to be avaible for uptake if its not already
really everything is organic some stuff has just been altered for specific use but if it can be found in this universe its organic
on a side note im gona gets a bag of moon dust and mars warter and and grow some weed thats out of this world for real though moon dust has elements not found on earth wonder how that would affect mj if mood dust was refined to be avaible for uptake if its not already
TND
Member
Hey whats up folks Pray4Pistals sorry for the delay.. that being said these pics are a day old and i added my tea to my rez the day before that and i can tell you this process works!! you can definitely get the beneficial bacterias flourishing in a non organic environment the plants seems to love it and it will and has help keep back the nasties aka slime
here are a few pics to help you judge and tell the first is of a a trainwreck/cheese bagseed i found and i tell you she grew a good 5 inches over nite..i was amazed
the other pics are of the "pineapple express" these girls just stood straight up and are looking uhm uhm goood!! enjoy
but really folks P4P is on to something and i have to say it worked for me
here are a few pics to help you judge and tell the first is of a a trainwreck/cheese bagseed i found and i tell you she grew a good 5 inches over nite..i was amazed
the other pics are of the "pineapple express" these girls just stood straight up and are looking uhm uhm goood!! enjoy
but really folks P4P is on to something and i have to say it worked for me
Attachments
pray4pistils
Member
Red_Bull, I really like "Dual Delivery Nutrition". That ranks right up there with "Hybrid Nutrition Technique" for clarity and accuracy. I'm leaning towards not using a term including "organics" because all it'll do is start a food fight with the purists/absolutists. The point here is to expand minds -not to close them (even though I do enjoy stirring the pot).
As for the "basic overview" bit, we've just gotten started. There's a lot more detail we can get into. What topics would you like to explore?
Mmmm... your Big Bloom looks like wonderful stuff. I've never used it. However, that combined with the Tiger Bloom seems somewhat equivalent to what I've got with the raw ingredient teas + FloraNova Bloom. (You've got an organic base and add a synthetic flowering booster. I do the opposite but balance and availability is the key.) So, I'd keep on doing what you're doing. However, the big deal (as far as I'm concerned) is to pre-digest the organic stuff before application. The best thing about synthetics is that the compounds are immediately available to the plant. On the other hand, organics can be more complete but need time for bio-processing. It's that stage of the process that I suspect you could rev up and enhance.
pray4pistils
Member
Folks, that CT Guy has taken interest in our thread is a huge big deal. He and Clackamas Coot have organic growing experience that boggles the mind. Do appreciate that the "CT" here stands for "Compost Tea". (At first I thought this chap was from Connecticut. Haha!) It is this gentleman's advice that has guided me the most with respects to organic tea-making procedures. So, let's give him a few days to catch up with us and to deliver guru-level advice. I'm stoked!
CT Guy, here are a few quick responses to your questions/points:
Yes, sir. This is a primary ingredient in the teas that I've experimented with and recommended to others. I love the potassium and micro-nutrients that it provides as well as the growth hormones. I've noticed that it facilitates tighter internode spacing and promotes more side branching. This works especially well with the haze-based plants that I'm growing now.
My Great White innoculant combines beneficial bacterias and fungus. So, I don't have the choice to separate them. However, I'll argue lightly that there are ways to make use of this stuff in hydro. True, there won't be long hyphae strands stretching through clay balls. However, endo mycorrhizae infects the root itself -not the medium. Also, some ecto myco lives on the root's surface. This also seems like it could/should take hold. Do you believe otherwise? Btw, I start my plants in pure coco (or 80% coco + 20% EWC). I hope I'm getting some fungal hyphae growing at least in the root ball.
Wow, that's very encouraging. Tell us how to grow 500lb colas, please! PLEASE!
Right, but synthetics have their place, too -especially in a closed indoor environment. I can't speak for the others, but I like to run as much organics as practical. The line that I've found to work optimally is 2/3 synthetic and 1/3 organic. If I could bias the ratio more towards the organic, I surely wouldn't mind. Please show us the way, wise one.
Most of us here are on this same page with you, CT Guy. We're not afraid at all. In fact, the very premise of this developing technique is that it is easier to keep our plants healthy by using (some) organics than it is to do it the traditional hydro way which relies on total sterility. We want the yields that we're used to but appreciate the stress reduction and flavor/aroma qualities that organic substances deliver. It's also nice that a relatively stronger total nute package can be applied without fear of burning sensitive strains.
CT Guy, here are a few quick responses to your questions/points:
Yes, sir. This is a primary ingredient in the teas that I've experimented with and recommended to others. I love the potassium and micro-nutrients that it provides as well as the growth hormones. I've noticed that it facilitates tighter internode spacing and promotes more side branching. This works especially well with the haze-based plants that I'm growing now.
My Great White innoculant combines beneficial bacterias and fungus. So, I don't have the choice to separate them. However, I'll argue lightly that there are ways to make use of this stuff in hydro. True, there won't be long hyphae strands stretching through clay balls. However, endo mycorrhizae infects the root itself -not the medium. Also, some ecto myco lives on the root's surface. This also seems like it could/should take hold. Do you believe otherwise? Btw, I start my plants in pure coco (or 80% coco + 20% EWC). I hope I'm getting some fungal hyphae growing at least in the root ball.
Wow, that's very encouraging.
Tell us how to grow 500lb colas, please! PLEASE!Right, but synthetics have their place, too -especially in a closed indoor environment. I can't speak for the others, but I like to run as much organics as practical. The line that I've found to work optimally is 2/3 synthetic and 1/3 organic. If I could bias the ratio more towards the organic, I surely wouldn't mind. Please show us the way, wise one.
Most of us here are on this same page with you, CT Guy. We're not afraid at all. In fact, the very premise of this developing technique is that it is easier to keep our plants healthy by using (some) organics than it is to do it the traditional hydro way which relies on total sterility. We want the yields that we're used to but appreciate the stress reduction and flavor/aroma qualities that organic substances deliver. It's also nice that a relatively stronger total nute package can be applied without fear of burning sensitive strains.
pray4pistils
Member
Heck yeah, man. What baffles me is the rampant "one OR the other mentality". How did the misinformation about synthetics and organics being incompatible spread so far and wide?
That growth *is* amazing! Your plants look like they were never slimed. Gorgeous! Would you please describe your tea a little bit more? Did you follow my procedure exactly? Or, did you do anything different? What trends did you notice during the addition of various ingredients over time?
but really folks P4P is on to something and i have to say it worked for me
Awesome, man. Let's really push this whole hybrid/dual delivery thing. There's so much to experiment with. The possibilities are endless. We can all learn from each other.
mr-natural78
Member
Dude, I have to say, this my favorite thread on icmag. I love looking at the monster outdoor plants guys like rootwise, butte, humboltlocal, tom hill, and the rest are doing in the outdoor section, but this thread is deffenately the most intellectually stimulating. I love your practical approach to this and your willingness to bring in organic and synthetic growers to critique, advise, or just give input. I have been watching closely and learning a little along the way. I wish I could give some input myself, but my knowledge on hydro is very limited, and my experience is even more limited. I've always believed, because everyone says it, that the micro-herd wouldn't survive in a synthetic environment. It would appear that that is just a myth. This makes me want to run a few experiments of my own.
pray4pistils
Member
The positivity in this thread should inspire us all. Thanks for the very kind words and let's get some more folks giving the process a shot. Here are my latest garden photos (with bottoms trimmed):
Buds are starting to form now. So, the real show should begin soon.
Hey, with limited experience or knowledge... you're a prime candidate to adopt some of this and report your experiences. Experts make everything look easy because they've been there/done that. Thus, your input is easily as valuable as anybody else's -possibly more. So, please cast aside those silly myths and participate actively. Go ahead and make some silly noob mistakes, too. That'll give us all an opportunity to help you out and "bullet proof" the technique. We need you around here.
Buds are starting to form now. So, the real show should begin soon.
Hey, with limited experience or knowledge... you're a prime candidate to adopt some of this and report your experiences. Experts make everything look easy because they've been there/done that. Thus, your input is easily as valuable as anybody else's -possibly more. So, please cast aside those silly myths and participate actively. Go ahead and make some silly noob mistakes, too. That'll give us all an opportunity to help you out and "bullet proof" the technique. We need you around here.
