New Experimental Organic Hydro Technique!

[GivaDogaBone]

Soooo Anyways!

Soooo Anyways!

GivaDog: DON'T hack a perfectly nice (and pricey) 55 gallon barrel up for one of these!! So not necessary!!! Just go get a big rubbermaid.

I plan to use a soil mix of ffof and chunky perlite, happy frog fruit and tomatoe, and big bloom and grow big. This mix over the rocks and air stones.
I have a 400 digital Mh/HPS and will veg for long time to LST with coliseum style scrog before flower.
I'm going to cut at 28 inches


6 inches of lava rock
6 inches of chunky perlite
12 to 16 inches of soil mix
5 inches of RO water in the bottom
10 pack of White Rhino from Gypsy
I hope to collect some seed.

 

[SwitchAvenger]

Holy crap. so i just read every freakin page on this thread in like 2 hours. This is like everything I've been looking for. I've spend a bunch of time just reading different ways of going about things and i have a failing soil project going right now. But by some mystical chance i ran across this thread while researching how to reuse soil.

Now I'm going to interject an idea what is probably out there because I'm a brain fried. But how about attaching something like an aquaponic system with a bigger remote rez that would recirculate water between the bottom of the fish tank and the bottom of OBBT that way you could almost go 100% with out using nutrient... i think? I'm still trying to work all the information i have in my head out as it is right now, so excuse me for sounding ignorant, because i am.

Any which way that a different idea down the road i might try. For right now i'm going to trying to make something for rubbermaid tubs that can handle maybe a one or two plant OBBT, and i think i might have some ideas for dividers but i have to see what kind of crap i can find at work first.

Hopefully when that's done finishing i can also be finishing putting up a bigger grow space.

Anyway. Thanks to both of you guy, this is one of the best piece of accidental information i have ever found

 

[rrog]

It's like we need two threads. The original OBBT and then the Extra Crispy varieties.

 

[SwitchAvenger]

lol awesome. Forgot to throw something else out there two. Might want to look into Diatomite as a sub straight for the rez / water chamber. It can be kind of hard to get but i wonder if it would have any benefits as apposed to volcano stone. I believe it could be useful but i don't know again, still working on getting one damn plant to grow in, which I'm kind of losing interest in.

http://www.diatomiteusa.com/shop/in...h=11_5&zenid=2693d46b00360b6d35cfc1f4cb8a21c2

i know it says sold out, but there is other places to get it

 

[GivaDogaBone]

Sorry

I'll open another thread in equipment, when I'm ready to build.

Thanks Guys

 

[Citizen024]

I thought we might want to split it too. However it is nice having us all in one place, keeping it all on one table so to speak as ideas are processed out. If we scatter too much we lose the individual inputs we all offer. I know we are all over most of these threads anyways.

So maybe once I have mine built, and when other people make modifications and build them we can each start our own diaries or threads detailing them. Or an experiments on the experiment thread. Let's keep this as the idea place. Got a good thing going so far.

It might help DM if your up for putting together that clear concise guide to the Bio Bath to refer folks too. You got the details better then I. My design is interesting indeed, and definately build worthy. However, it has not been tested so I am not ready to go write a "how to" yet.

SwitchAvenger: I am sure you could run some sort of aquaponic thing too. It would require a lot of modification I am sure. The nutrient bath being exposed to the volume of a fish tank would really weaken whats happening in the baths. You would be "watering down" the medium so to speak. Yes you get stuff from fish for sure, I am just not entirely sure you would get enough to really set this thing off. But I am no aquaponice expert thats for sure.

If I remember my reading on aquaponics correctly you can't just raise any fish you like, only certain species do well. Tilapia is one of them. In order for the plants to live from the fish wastes you kinda have to have fish that can handle living in higher levels of their own waste. And if I remeber correctly as well, your plant species can't be of high nutrient requirement.

And ours are.

 

[prelude91sir]

as anybody thought about converting a earth box into one of these? Thats what im thinking about doing. the earth box measures 29x13x11 so i figure i could have about 2 rows of 3 under my 1k magnum xxxl hood which would give me a area of about 4'10"x4'5". I can fit about 25 3 gallon grow bags in that area now. So if i was to use the earth box im looking at about 4 plants per box. I think 1 dual air pump running 2 stones would be go per box? also i like the earth box cause it comes with wheels. so i can move them around a lil if needed.

http://www.earthbox.com

 

[DrunkenMessiah]

prelude91sir and ripman

Both of your ideas for conversion sound very doable. These tub kits you have should work beautifully when converted to an OBBT. Prelude, I will warn again against running more than one plant in a single OBBT. Roots get crazy-aggressive in the OBBTs and the plants tend not to play nice together.

GivaDogaBone

Holy shit man!

Even cutting it low that's gonna be, like, a 30-ish gallon OBBT!!! I just grew a monstrous Big Momma tomato plant that yielded over 40 pounds out of an 8.5 gallon container. You may be going seriously overkill here. I know its convenient because you have it on hand, but its gonna be inconvenient to generate over 20 gallons of high-quality OBBT medium. You are lacking Coco Moss in your current proposed mix. That just won't do. You'll need several massive bags of it if you go with your current container.

Nothing against your idea, I think that unless you used it to grow some absurd 10 foot tall 2-pound-yielding outdoor monster-plant then you are wasting resourced. I'd scrounge up a simple 10 gallon square Rubbermaid tub and be done with it.

And hey!

Nobody get bummed out about the thread being too full. This isnt a grow diary and it isn't a thread with a lot of pictures or instructionals. Its purely intullectual bullshitting, bantering back and fowarth about the ideas. The more people we have in here asking random, though related questions the more stimulating of an environment as it is. I think the huge stream-of-consciousness thats going on here is great!

This thread was never meant to be particularly noob-friendly. It is not supposed to be an instructional. Lady Largely is taking lots of great pictures and her thread will be much better for actually learning how you should build and run the basic tub.

I prefer this thread to be the master class for OBBTs. I want this thread to be the forefront of OBBT-related discussion and research. Jumbled and busy and noisy and hard-to-read is exactly how this thread should be. Simpler more instructional threads will come along in the future, but this one is mad and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Great discussions going on as always guys. Good luck and happy gardening!

 

[prelude91sir]

do you think it still would be necessary to use lava rocks or hydroton with the earth box? since the earth box comes with a screen to seperate the bath from the medium.

 

[SlowCalaToker]

do you think it still would be necessary to use lava rocks or hydroton with the earth box? since the earth box comes with a screen to separate the bath from the medium.

From what I can tell...

The screen needs to be removed to allow the roots to penetrate into the bath, thereby requiring the lava rock or hydroton.

 

[rrog]

What EXACTLY is the Medium?

What EXACTLY is the Medium?

SlowCala, that's my understanding as well.


I am looking for some verification on the Medium ingredients before I go shopping:

50% Coco
25% Compost / Worm Castings
25% Pearlite / Vermiculite

I'll have about three gallons of this in each of my 5 gallon pails. I'd like to put a specific brand name to each item so that I get this 100% correct.

COCO:

LadyL says to use the coarse Coco Coir after boiling and rinsing. Coco from "The Original Mulch Block Coco Coir"

The Compost / Worm Castings

This from "the DM": "...except I would not recommend 25% wormcastings. I run 25% high-potency organic compost, which is not as strong as wormcastings"

I assume this means mostly compost with some worm castings. Is there a recommended bagged high-potency organic compost? Brand of worm Castings? And how much worm castings to mix with high-potency organic compost?

The Pearlite / Vermiculite

Is this one or the other or a mix of both? LadyL prefers chunky Horticultural Vermiculute. Not sure of a brand.

I realize I add products and pro-bios to this, but I want to get the basic mix in house.

Thanks

 

[Citizen024]

Is coco moss the same thing as coir? You know: Botanicare bricks, Canna, B'Cuzz standard coco shit

Pure earth worm casting too hot?

DM, do you mind reposting your fertilizer mixes again?

Found some perfect black square heavy duty containers at my local shop. I live in Santa Cruz, the stores are huge and well stocked. Talked with one of the shop guys, he seemed real interested in what we are working on. Gave him the link, and if it floats their boat they might build one a full on large one in a display garden. Plus it's great to get one set up and play with it without risking your personal garden. I'll keep ya posted.

 

[rrog]

Bio Tone Starter Plus or Organicare Aeration ?

Bio Tone Starter Plus or Organicare Aeration ?

DM a while back you had a boner for this (Page 5)but you were concerned about the all important texture.

Have you by chance had a chance too look at this more closely?

One component that you had the hots for was the Ascophyllum Nodosum seaweed. I assume that's not in the Bio Tone. You use Kelp Meal in your formulas for the Ascophyllum Nodosum seaweed. I assume we can order that online?

 

[prelude91sir]

From what I can tell...

The screen needs to be removed to allow the roots to penetrate into the bath, thereby requiring the lava rock or hydroton.

the screen seems like it would still allow roots to grow through them.

 

[SwitchAvenger]

I couldn't find the post to use a quote but i remember reading Citizen024 saying to can the entire fabric idea. But how about just using it for one dividing wall in the middle sterilite tub. I'm fixin to play around with this idea though. It would be perfect for micro setup where space is limited but this could also allow you to perpetuate plant rotation (one of my main points of interest as well, low maintenance and rotating). This could be done by using plastic window runs and the rubber screen molding to run the screen in (just like a window screen just really small) and using aquarium glass glue to bond it to the container, or gluing channels that the screen would slide into and pretty much leave it there still you have to break down the tub do some spring cleaning (if that would be necessary at all. Speaking of which; DM how long can you go before you have to break down and do some cleaning or can you run this all the time and let the microbial world do everything for you?)

My main interest in is on a micro / perpetual style grow, using clones. I pretty much have it in my head that i don't want to have to do a lot to have an out come, and i don't what to have to monitor PH and EC on a daily basis. But! the one thing that is hurting my brain slightly is the pre-loading process, i understand it is necessary for the fun guys and the bacteria but is there anyway to tailer it so you can add pre-supercropped clones straight into the tubs flowering, or is the veg process mandatory? I'm thinking way out in front because i would like to have a couple zips every couple weeks as apposed too a big yield 2-3 months down the road. Understand where I'm going with this?

As for the aquaponics idea i spatted out earlier. The reason i mentioned it was because just imagine a set up where you didn't have to do anything except for making sure the plants were cool and add water. No neuts, no having to go out and buy more crap for no apparent reason and having a fully automated system where all you need to do is sit back and enjoy the ride. I read that guppies and goldfish could work for aquaponics because guppies can reproduce super fast the can produce a lot of waste, and you would using a similar idea to the substraight used in the OBBT, bio-filtration and filter out the water at the bottom of the tank. The set up i envisioned was one where the fish tank just acted as a top off, you would remove the water from the bottom of the tank and add it too the top of the OBBT. One problem i did read about was iron deficiencies, but adding a little bit of metal solve that problem for one grower if i remember correctly, he added something to the tank that unintentionally solved his iron problems.

The gears are grinding and the vehicle is moving!

 

[Citizen024]

I hear you on the screen, for smaller multi plant units it might be work it. I would use that root fabric for landscaping, not screens. Roots will get through a screen. Anyhow, whatever floats your boat.

But the multi container has no risk of roots getting loose, allows you to more containers around if need be (though it will be hard cause they are in a sea of rock and water). A continuous yield off of one of these. . seems. . to my mind. Less then ideal. You would have a hard time meeting all the plants differing nutrient needs. Your finishers would be chalk full of nutrient. I would instead built several smaller tray (say 2x2) with fabric divides, or 4 baths in each. That way you can have a couple different stages in one area.

You are going to have a light height issue, and serious plant competition issues (unless each "stage" has its own tub, and own light). Not mention if you have to treat any bugs/diseases your F'd cause they are not on the same schedule, and finishing plants (who can't be treated) are right next to new ones (who still can be treated). That is the primary drawback on the perpetual harvest. If you get mites or PM, good luck.

I see your logic for sure, just I think it might get a bit more complex then your counting on at present. Maybe you've accounted for all this, just wanted to share more perspective. Definately not a right vs. wrong thing.

 

[RipVanWeed]

Wow, this thread is really 'growing', been gone a few days and had some catching up to do.

When I opened my box last night, after 5 days, I was quite impressed with the vegging progress of my plants.

I do have concerns though, some plants are showing nute burn.

Pictures can say thousands of words.

7-17-9 7-24-9
S/W corner S/W corner



7-17-9 7-24-9
S/E corner S/E corner




I'm very much a noobie, but I think that for the 1st week of vegging in the buckets the growth has been very good.

This shows my concern



Most plants are showing at least some of this.

I had a friend visit my grow 1/2 way through my absence, he added about 1/2 gal. R. O. water to each bucket.

The water level in the buckets is halfway from bot. to the overflow again. So here come the questions.

Should I drain them, then refill with fresh water, or ride it out and let the plants adjust and the medium continue to mellow?

They look very green and lush, yet I concerned that when I switch to flower this level of nitrogen will be too high, do I need to commit to vegging longer so that the N will be used up?
I'm striving to improve upon my 1st grow and some of the issues I dealt with was too high of a calyx to leaf ratio in the Dabney Blue's, and the White Russians suffered from the claw. I think fed too much N at the end of veg into stretch and then didn't feed enough flower fert's...I switched from Big Bloom to Floranova Bloom, with a flush, 1/2 way through flower hoping to get some N relief for the WR.

You can see why I'm concerned, eh?

My box performed well with temps in my area hovering around the century for the last week with more of the same on tap. Grow conditions are Temps 80-84 lights on...76-77 lights off....Rh 42-60%.

So what do we do flush, fill, or feed?

Thanks for your support, RipVanWeed

 

[SwitchAvenger]

Citizin024, Thanks for the put. When i said screen i pretty much was tanking about that root fabric (coir mat? or something) but using that like how you would put together a screen.

I do understand you on that perpetual concept. I'm just sponging right now and i don't have much grow experience under me, but what i do have is a brain and a unique mechanical ability which i use as a day in day out career. I'm going to start small for right now with pretty much my screen / fabric divider to have two plant spots in my tubs. With what i plan on doing it should give me about 14 - 16 inch of grow space (the top has a plexiglass divider so the lights are separate from the grow chamber and i'm also working on changing my plans for the entire set up to get some more air flow, better intake, and make it look much more stealthy)

But it does make since i was just poking at ideas and trying to get tips, you know its always better to ask and told no, then no ask and wonder what-if.

Depending on how things go this week coming up i might try building next weekend. For right now I'm going to keep it as directed, but with the divider and two plants with about a 3-4 gallon container.

Good luck to all

 

[rrog]

Rip, you're following the complete OBBT? Did you have the organic layer cook for a week? I wonder about a shock, or simply a nutrient that hasn't been unlocked yet.

 

[solarpowered_ca]

hey rip what age were they when they were placed into the OBBTs and Were they grown from seed or clone? They look rather big for only a week of veg. Did you use the same medium mix for the clones/seeds if grown separately ? Im interested in DM comments on wether to drain out the veg water completely and replace with flower nutes and fresh water ( guano and ash etc) or mix it into the veg water especially for the first month before the flushing and fasting every two weeks begins.