Never Open the Door! How to Prepare Yourself

[SOTF420]

I agree on the ex's turning to snitches easy way to work around that is just keep fucking the shit out of them & taking them out to dinner after you break up trust me they keep their mouths shut that way! Take it from someone who knows, just keep them busy in bed!

 

[NorthernBigBuds]

And if it was something as simple as them looking for someone or asking if i've seen the missing angry pitbull, etc, now I have attention on myself for no reason.

I guess it could vary depending on the location your at, I can see your plan doing much better in a urban environment vs suburban/rural one.

As a grower, you want to protect yourself more than anyone. If they are there because they suspect you are a grower, than they are there to gain entry, and you give them that opportunity when you open the door to act 'normal'.

If they are there for some banal reason like a dog, or a missing person, then they will tell you as soon as you ask through the closed door. If you get a cop at your door asking about a dog, there is a better chance he is there undercover than there is for him actually doggy searching. In those brief encounters, they remember you as much as they remember the other 50 people they asked and the 6 of them who responded through a closed door.

Popping your head out of the door to determine why they are there is rarely, if ever the right option. I'm thinking and thinking, and can;t think of a situation where it would be better...

 

[Captain Ginyu]

I just would not answer the door, period! Why ask them the reason why they are there, from the other side of the door? They sure as hell can make anything up anyways, so anyone with common sense is gonna know they're friggin liars. Don't even have a conversation with them; it's a trap to incriminate yourself!

 

[designer]

In My case I had bench warrants and was not really at my own house. I don't want to elaborate on that too much, but say that they were coming to a house that I do not normally reside because they had a bench warrant and a tip that I was there. When they knocked on the door and someone that does live there opened it he allowed the police to see me and that was their probable cause that I actually was there. My son slamming the door on their faces made it worse and increased the merits of probable cause. If we had not answered the door I would not have been arrested. They would have eventually got me and I am glad this is actually over, but that is not the point.

The girl that had me arrested did it so that I would not be able to replace her. There was a fight when we broke up and she was fearing another woman. She felt that having me arrested would give her time to make up with me while I rotted in jail. She mailed me and took care of other things while I was there. She blamed my arrest on another woman that hates me (an ex wife). She is currently trying everything she can to get back together with me. Whether she was the one that turned me in (pretty likely to me she is the one that did it) or some other woman, I dumped this one for her temper and jealousy. I cannot have uncool people around me. I like people around that I can count on.

Oh, and my son does not open the door anymore without looking first and that is after the secret knock. If you knock on my door in a conventional manner we are either not opening it at all, or yelling who is it thru the door. We dont have a peep hole and there is only so much we can see out of the windows.

 

[WasntMe]

So what you are saying is that you should watch and know the info contained in Barry Cooper's videos...
Never Get Busted Again Vol 1 & 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XtBvalUVKU
http://nevergetbusted.com/2010/videos


you can find all the vids on youtube, and the like, usually broken up into a few parts.
The ones in my sig got recently removed from youtube but there are many reposts available.

 

[Rouge]

Excellent post NorthernBigBuds but I'm gonna hafta side with MasterKhufu on this one. But this part of your post is golden:
"Also, filling a complaint when you feel harassed is exactly what you should do. I'm not just threatening, I'm sending it for sure. I'm only telling the cop so he knows that I know a procedure for complaints exists and he cannot do and say anything he wants.

Now imagine the same cop with a vendetta tailing you and checking your meter. If you have already filed a harassment complaint against him, there is no way he will risk getting involved with you again. It is not worth his time, when there are so many other people who willingly incriminate themselves.

Normal, productive members of society make formal complaints when their Police Force harasses them. It is a powerful tool you have at your disposal.

The complaint process always has protocols in it to protect the public and the police from future related complaints. Part of that is usually a note in their database which will tell them you do not fuck around, anytime they pull your name."

I filed a formal civilian complaint against the police over some bullshit abuse of power some years ago and ever since then they have left me alone. No tickets, no talk and frisk, no intimidation, no nothing! What a difference! Finally, some respect! ........................... Also when I used to get "tickets", I'd drag the fuckers who wrote the ticket thru the courts so they can waste their time and money prosecuting me. Half the time the cops don't even show up in court anyway and I'd win the case. Never plead guilty and never pay up! And as always .......................... STFU!
When the cops pull up your info on their screens, let them know they are in for a fight. Also it doesn't hurt to call up the precint captain and complain about the badges harassing you or who arrested you. It fucks up the careers of the bad ones if enuff people complain about them and they have to watch and stew in dissapointment as their peers get promoted.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Good info. There's a bit or three I'd be reluctant to attempt.

I'd go with h247 if and when I'm presenting no PC. But that's based on the knock itself. If I'm lucky, I'll know it's leo before I've acknowledged being inside.

If it's an aggressive knock, I might play not at home. If there's no reason to suspect their hair is raised, knowing why they're there would benefit. But I gotta make damn sure I know my shit is hidden and doesn't stink.

It's the iffiest aspect in the whole scenario, determining why they're there and the risks associated with finding out. When in doubt, play your best hand for the particulars presented.

I'm not so sure about being aggressive, depends on personalities. IMO, cunning personalities are better at letting leo know they won't be intimidated. They're often the best judge of whether to acknowledge presence. Aggressive reactions may cross that uncomfortable line, maybe worse.

As far as the persistent knocking, depends on the situation.

Lets say I'm unsuccessful playing possum and they know I'm there. For whatever reason I've determined not to open the door, ie my previous session still smells etc. In that worst case fire in leo's pants scenario, I might consider telling them I'm reporting a disturbance (example phone/911.) That's something that fits the bill w/o necessarily getting the cop's ass in a sling. But it's not his general welfare I'm interested in. Might not go away any quicker but I haven't unnecessarily poured gas down his pants.

It all comes down to why they're there and whether I must tear down or chance it. That's a tough game to play if you're chancing continuing your grow. In this case, I'm not sure establishing my won't be intimidated face is the best approach. My interest is in the micro of the present and recent history. Not so much presenting what a formidable target I am or ain't.

Cops don't have to be sociopaths to know how to act like em. You gotta know how to get what you need to know w/o making the situation worse. Like the op so vividly explains, that can be as unfortunate as opening the door.

This is actually worse than a Schrodinger's cat scenario. One can anticipate different situations but get the wrong personality behind the particular badge.


I hate the day something like knock and talk happens to me. I'll probably be the one to tear down and not risk more grief.


good thread - if you likey

 

[headiez247]

another worry I'd have with the taking the talk through the door method is having it cause them to not provide enough info for me to determine whether i need to rip down or not. I have always tended to be more safe then sorry sorta deal. I would rather risk the face to face outside my house then not know what the fuck is going on. Because safety wise it always comes down to judgement calls based on the specific situation.

 

[Sandnut]

yeah dont be a bitch and go with the "talk to my lawyer" "go get a warrant attitude".... treat them as your friends ( keep ur enemies close) remember you are innocent, you havent done anything wrong.. you are a lawbidding citizen... why would you not be polite to mr. officer...

if they had a warrant they would already be inside your house taring it appart, they are knocking cause either they are there for some other reason, or to check it out (they have suspicions) or to talk their way in (ussually)

dont fuck about!!

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I had a knock and talk one night from a loud stereo complaint. I wasn't growing back then but we'd blazed prior to the call. I was pretty young, never had any run ins and opened the door w/o knowing who it was.

They told me to turn the music down and left. I shut the door, turned and saw a baggie the first place I looked, lol.

Obviously, a slob like that shouldn't grow and I had to adapt. Like yourself, I want to know and be as safe as possible. Pretty much gotta be face to face for that.

If by chance they knock like designer experienced, I might just pretend I ain't there. Making those kinds of calls are always iffy. And I'd most likely be pissed for not knowing.

 

[ak-51]

For the most part, great post. Very informative rather than "pigs came to my door, fuck the police!". A few things I disagree with:

Call the cops. Tell them there are two people outside your door who want to speak with you that you have told you don't want to speak with and they won't go away. Tell them they are banging on your door and making threats(They will be). Don't let these cops in either if they come. This will make the first group of cops look stupid.

I don't think you should do this. It will not make the 1st group of cops look stupid. All of these cops probably know each other, I don't think the 1st group is going to be embarrassed about it at all; they will however be more pissed. I think all that this would accomplish would be to waste more LEOs time (seriously these guys actually have real crimes to deal with sometimes) and to possibly double the number of LEOs outside your door. Both bad.

As a weed grower, you have to play the game, and "exercising your rights" isn't always the best choice.

Not opening the door is not an act of guilt! It will appear that way to the simpleminded cop, but it isn't so.

This whole open/do not open is really sensitive to information and circumstances that you may not know about at the time of the visit. Say they know 100% that you are growing but have yet to legally prove it. I would say do not open, you are not fooling them. If they just stopped by for a noise complaint because you were blasting your music at 4am? It's probably safe to open. The problem is you are unlikely to know why the hell they stopped by before they actually tell you, which they also might lie about. You need to walk the fine line between being safe and exercising your rights to the fullest and playing like a normal law-abiding citizen and not arousing suspicion. A good example of this is the "don't talk; say lawyer" rule. If a cop walks up to you on the street and asks if you just saw anything suspicious do you immediately ask for your lawyer? Of course not. That would just shift his focus from whatever he was working on to you. Obviously that is an extreme example but you get the picture. Exercising your rights to the fullest can and will appear unusual and suspicious. They will think you have something to hide, and don't we?

I embelished my description of the events as much as possible

Filing a false report is a crime and not a good idea in general. I know in my locality the police can record the audio picked up by their radios; I have no idea how often they do this. It's not going to help you if you describe a completely different set of events than what the audio picked up.

EDIT: Oops! I didn't even know the 2nd page existed and didn't read it at all. Sorry if I just went over something already stated.

 

[DasFox]

Never let them know you are at HOME...

If they have WARRANT, they will BUST the door down...

If not...they GO AWAY if no one home...

THANKS

 

[DasFox]

another worry I'd have with the taking the talk through the door method is having it cause them to not provide enough info for me to determine whether i need to rip down or not. I have always tended to be more safe then sorry sorta deal. I would rather risk the face to face outside my house then not know what the fuck is going on. Because safety wise it always comes down to judgement calls based on the specific situation.

DONT talk at all...

They can lie and say you SAID THIS OR THAT...so...

DON'T let them know you are at home...

THANKS

 

[DasFox]

I agree on the ex's turning to snitches easy way to work around that is just keep fucking the shit out of them & taking them out to dinner after you break up trust me they keep their mouths shut that way! Take it from someone who knows, just keep them busy in bed!

IF you must have beeyatches or roommates...DON'T GROW...

GROW elsewhere...

THANKS

 

[designer]

In the case of mine that I refer to, I was just wanted, not being investigated for a grow. I had been avoiding the cops for a long time and knowing how mad my girl friend was at me I was paranoid about them showing. My son opening the door was against our basic policy and just an error. We are both clean now, but have discussed this in great detail and he will not just open to a strange knock again. If I had been growing I would have torn down before they even showed because of the angry ex girl friend.

A grower getting busted will be one of the following:

1. Cops already have a warrant. They will come thru the door all tough like and if you have a barking dog they will shoot it.

2. You open a door to a no warrant situation. The cop looks for probable cause. Probable cause can be the smell of weed and they always smell weed. Opening the door allows them to develop probable cause and conduct a warrant-less search.

 

[thingshappening]

What exactly will his friend do? Trump up some charges? Should I live in fear of possibly being retaliated against?

Cops are much less likely to chose someone who knows and excercises their rights, files complaints, and writes their boss letters when deciding who to investigate.

Theres a zillion other criminals who will talk themselves into corners, put up with abuse and fall for their lies.

Give them nothing and that's all they have.

He doesn't have to trump up charges. Once the cops are onto you as a grower, game over. It's done. They will catch you. It's incredibly easy to do so, and I think we all know one of the zillion reasons this is so. Your criminal activity is not taking place for 30 minutes in the dark of night, it's in your home 24/7.

I appreciate your willingness to try and play the game the right way, and take advantage of the "on paper" attempts at creating a just society. But it's just a mirage.

Headiez is absolutely right. When you're a grower, each knock and talk is to be handled differently, depending on your situation.

Generally speaking, as a grower, if the cops know I'm home, awake, and can clearly hear them at the door, I'm answering. I want to see if they have a noise complaint filed by the mentally disabled lady down the street, or if they are sniffing around and it's subsequently time to close shop.

Then again, I have no criminal record, and dress like a middle class white preppy. And my ability to speak intelligently under pressure is my career, so there's that. Maybe the rules are different for a multi-felon black guy in the Deep South.

I appreciate your thoughtful thread nonetheless, and am glad you're out of trouble.


EDIT: Barry Cooper is a piece of shit who has ruined the lives of hundreds of people, only to "find" the "truth" (which is making a six figure income selling DVD's with half-truths). Barry's videos imply it's incredibly difficult for a pig to get a warrant once they are onto you. He states this because such a disposition is a prerequisite for selling himself as an "expert" on what to do when the cops are fucking with you. His rhetoric is overly-simplistic and is rooted in his pea-brain cop knowledge from decades prior- not legal precedent, not current events.

Legal precedent shows it is about 10 million times easier for a pig to get a warrant than he implies, and that the resulting findings will stand up in court. Knock and talks are used on growers by incredibly lazy cops just starting the investigation. Again: if they are onto you, game over. Getting a warrant requires inventing smells and anonymous tips, nothing more.

 

[WasntMe]

EDIT: Barry Cooper is a piece of shit who has ruined the lives of hundreds of people, only to "find" the "truth" (which is making a six figure income selling DVD's with half-truths). Barry's videos imply it's incredibly difficult for a pig to get a warrant once they are onto you. ......

I certainly never got the same simplistic impression you seem to have from his videos. In fact I came away with quite the opposite and felt that there is absolutely a lot of good info in them.
What do you mean by he "has ruined the lives of hundreds of people"? Are you refuring to something specific that I am unaware of?

 

[igrowone]

here's my small experience - not applicable to everybody, like a lot have said, it comes down to a case by case
get the knock with the cop at the door, my setup is very stealth and my profile is very low
so i open up, he asks about my car, car description matching mine was seen at a convenience store hold up
i look like your typical upstanding citizen, no sketchiness about me
conversation lasts less than a minute, he's scoped me out and lost interest
now if i hadn't opened the door and talked to him in a relaxed manner, i know i would have moved up a notch or 2 on his suspect list

 

[compost]

here's my small experience - not applicable to everybody, like a lot have said, it comes down to a case by case
get the knock with the cop at the door, my setup is very stealth and my profile is very low
so i open up, he asks about my car, car description matching mine was seen at a convenience store hold up
i look like your typical upstanding citizen, no sketchiness about me
conversation lasts less than a minute, he's scoped me out and lost interest
now if i hadn't opened the door and talked to him in a relaxed manner, i know i would have moved up a notch or 2 on his suspect list

Of course. You were innocent and had nothing to fear. Now would you have done as well if he had came to your house about crimes you were currently committing? Cops want us to talk because they generally have A LOT more training then we do.

Most of us have kids and we know how to "give them a rope to hang themselves" when you know they are lying. Cops are doing the same thing from the moment they start talking to you. No matter how clever you might think you are, always remember they are some tricky fucks. If you feel you must talk through the door to them; you simply ask politely if they will leave a card so you can contact them later.

Either way don't talk to them they will use this against you. Know your rights and a few good questions

1. Is that a request or an order SIR?
2. I wish to terminate this encounter am I free to go or being detained against my will?

Myself I am very careful when I step out of my grow area to the outside that I wait and listen to make sure I don't get caught off guard. I also ALWAYS keep my wallet with my ID on me when I am around the house or yard just in case. Like many people have posted if they had enough information to search your house they would have already. When they do a knock and talk they attempting to circumvent the requirements for a warrant and get you to submit. To follow along any part of that process is just HELPING them.

 

[igrowone]

Myself I am very careful when I step out of my grow area to the outside that I wait and listen to make sure I don't get caught off guard. I also ALWAYS keep my wallet with my ID on me when I am around the house or yard just in case. ...

i have learned to do that too, i started a thread just on that topic - that takes away one of the much used ploys by a cop that wants to get in the door
and your point about getting cocky with talking to a cop is a good point
every circumstance is different, enforcement where i live for grows is not high, anything is possible, but a grow room bust is very unusual, and all the ones i saw were extreme stupidity
i have some inside information on the current practice of local LEO, they are not aggressive in this particular jurisdiction