Neem as a Soil Conditioner

[Speed Racer]

The above pic is Gnat nix top dressing. Another pic-

and info regarding it. Is 100% recycled glass. Maybe a better option than sand??? Anyone ever seen or used this?

- Did you know that potted soil from garden centers often is contaminated with eggs and/or larvae of fungus gnats? That means before you even start, you could have a fungus gnat problem and not even know it. Whatever the source of your fungus gnats issue, larvae are the source of plant damage. They feed on algae, fungi, decomposing organic matter, and plant roots in the growing medium. They prefer feeder roots and root hairs, both of which are important for plant health and vigor. If these roots are damaged plants may lose vigor, wilt, have poor growth, leaves may turn yellow and drop. What’s more, even though adult fungus gnats don’t bite or feed, as long as they are able to complete their life cycle, there will always be potential for plant damage from larvae. Up until now, there was no way to significantly disrupt a gnat’s life cycle without the use of chemicals.
Not any more.
Kansas State University research data on Growstone Gnat Nix for fungus gnat population management indicates that when Gnat Nix is used as a top dressing on the surface of growing media, it disrupts gnat’s life cycle and significantly reduces its population. All without chemicals, pesticides or toxic substances.
Studies indicate there are at least two relatively simple but effective mechanisms acting in sync which are responsible for this disruption using Gnat Nix:

1. Physical barrier limit larvae mobility: Top dress limits larvae ability to crawl up to the surface of Gnat Nix, pupate and emerge as adults that would continue to reproduce. Using Gnat Nix right after plants are transplanted into the permanent growing container will significantly reduce larvae survival chances. Trapped in Gnat Nix, larvae ends up dying.
2. Dry and inhospitable conditions limit egg survival: The dry and rough surface of Gnat Nix top dressing creates inhospitable conditions that negatively affect fungus gnat eggs survival. It also reduces the appeal for females to lay their eggs on its surface. When growing conditions promote fungus gnat population growth, applying Gnat Nix as a top dressing prevents future problems — as the fewer eggs laid by adult females have a significantly lower chance of survival.

Regardless of moisture content of the growing media, or exposure to rain or sun, Gnat Nix applied as a top dressing interrupt fungus gnat life cycle effectively reducing adult population and plant damage with one single application and zero pesticides.
peace... SR

 

[who dat is]

The above pic is Gnat nix top dressing. Another pic- View Image
and info regarding it. Maybe a better option than sand??? Anyone ever seen or used this?

- Did you know that potted soil from garden centers often is contaminated with eggs and/or larvae of fungus gnats? That means before you even start, you could have a fungus gnat problem and not even know it. Whatever the source of your fungus gnats issue, larvae are the source of plant damage. They feed on algae, fungi, decomposing organic matter, and plant roots in the growing medium. They prefer feeder roots and root hairs, both of which are important for plant health and vigor. If these roots are damaged plants may lose vigor, wilt, have poor growth, leaves may turn yellow and drop. What’s more, even though adult fungus gnats don’t bite or feed, as long as they are able to complete their life cycle, there will always be potential for plant damage from larvae. Up until now, there was no way to significantly disrupt a gnat’s life cycle without the use of chemicals.
Not any more.
Kansas State University research data on Growstone Gnat Nix for fungus gnat population management indicates that when Gnat Nix is used as a top dressing on the surface of growing media, it disrupts gnat’s life cycle and significantly reduces its population. All without chemicals, pesticides or toxic substances.
Studies indicate there are at least two relatively simple but effective mechanisms acting in sync which are responsible for this disruption using Gnat Nix:

1. Physical barrier limit larvae mobility: Top dress limits larvae ability to crawl up to the surface of Gnat Nix, pupate and emerge as adults that would continue to reproduce. Using Gnat Nix right after plants are transplanted into the permanent growing container will significantly reduce larvae survival chances. Trapped in Gnat Nix, larvae ends up dying.
2. Dry and inhospitable conditions limit egg survival: The dry and rough surface of Gnat Nix top dressing creates inhospitable conditions that negatively affect fungus gnat eggs survival. It also reduces the appeal for females to lay their eggs on its surface. When growing conditions promote fungus gnat population growth, applying Gnat Nix as a top dressing prevents future problems — as the fewer eggs laid by adult females have a significantly lower chance of survival.

Regardless of moisture content of the growing media, or exposure to rain or sun, Gnat Nix applied as a top dressing interrupt fungus gnat life cycle effectively reducing adult population and plant damage with one single application and zero pesticides.
peace... SR

I got a promo bag of this stuff from a local hydro shop to try out. I haven't used it or done anything with it yet but in my mind it isn't proactive enough. The whole approach just sounds like you are wasting space in your container that could have more soil and gnats will also have no trouble at all cruising through and going through the bottom holes in the pot. I have had far more recent success with crushing up the mosquito dunks and sprinkling those on top and watering them in. That between using the sticky yellow traps to catch adults has basically eliminated any gnats I have seen.

 

[MrTea]

I agree with WHo Dat IS.....Fungus gnats are ALWAYS brought in to your grow room. Even if you kill 1 round of gnats in your soil by drying it out and suffocating with Gnat Nix you will always bring in more. Gotta have a long term approach. Lots of neem, spinosad, garlic ginger hot pepper fpe's. I have applied DE and sand as a topdress before, but is only ever a temporary fix. Also, I don't like the idea of putting stuff onto my soil mix that I don't want in there long term.

 

[Hmong]

Gotta have a long term approach. Lots of neem, spinosad, garlic ginger hot pepper fpe's. I have applied DE and sand as a topdress before, but is only ever a temporary fix. Also, I don't like the idea of putting stuff onto my soil mix that I don't want in there long term.

atm I am observing that neem cake in my soil adds much N and drops the pH
i also topdressed my coco plants with it + soil drenched several times.
they also show the same defficiency in S but are overall healthy and dark green as never before.

so all of you guys might consider this when dosing your nutrients for the mix or pH your water in the future.

good luck

 

[MrTea]

pH'ing water......lol.

 

[Hmong]

in coco dude

 

[MrTea]

So why is the thread titled "soil"?

 

[ozzieAI]

So why is the thread titled "soil"?

very good point..i have to admit that my results with neem cake in coco has been poor...even the pots that got neem cake have as many FG as those that didn't...hit them with BTi today....lets see how that goes....

the sand gravel barrier is useless...could be the drippers creating access but i doubt it is just that...around the sides of the pots, the stakes...

BUT yes this thread was started for a completely different reason....

 

[Hmong]

BUT yes this thread was started for a completely different reason...

I get you with that and I see we may have pushed this threat far enough into the pest section.
Since you were talking about the benefits of neem for plant overall health and root groth in your OP i assume.

we should sit onto that further.
after all the trail and error with the neem products against RAs i stopped using them on a basis eventually. but I think about reintroducing it as Part of my future TLO mix.
we both agree that the neem meal/cake on its own is to expensive as an mixing amendment and also gets flushed out with watering.
today i checked my source again and i saw that they are offering neem tree pellets now.
11€ for 1kg is very expensive, though it seems to make a good mixing amendement and beeing long term.

we both seem to have a missunderstanding from the beginning, including my suggestion about the topdressing. I run my coco much mure TLO style with handwatering teas and stuff + very little synthetics.
this whole idea was based for a more soil like type of grow.
On some point i did not get, you are running straight synthetic with drippers.
with this kind of style I don't see any benefit for neem products in the medium except your special soil drenches (which helped me a lot during the hard times, big thank you for that btw.)

maybe you said it already but I'm curious why you are not running amnended soil anymore like in your side by side? Altough it seemed to wok very well.

cheerz - Hmong

 

[who dat is]

*Bump*

Started using the emulsified neem to help battle against ants, fungus gnats, and also possibly aphids. I hope this works. Here is where I first started out with the ants. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=286125

 

[Apache Kush]

Bumping

for myself, good Neem Oil Thread~

 

[who dat is]

*Bump*

Started using the emulsified neem to help battle against ants, fungus gnats, and also possibly aphids. I hope this works. Here is where I first started out with the ants. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=286125

I checked out the plants and it seems like nothing has happened to deter the ants. I used a mix of 3 ounces of SNS 203, around two table spoons of cinnamon, and 30ml of 70% neem per gallon. After re-reading this thread I'm happy to say that I bought the pure neem oil today and am going to be using that from here on out. Hopefully that will help make the difference. The ants don't care at all about the terro traps sitting around so I might try the borax and sugar water on a cotton ball trick. I even saw what looked like an ant "farming" what I presume is an aphid although it looks like a fungus gnat.

 

[ozzieAI]

pure neem oil always worked for me when getting rid ants...

good luck

 

[Kygiacomo!!!]

hey ozziAI i kow this thread is a bit old but what is the best emulsifier? i got dyna-gro protekt but can i use the dyna gro protekt as a folair spray as well? i was gonna get some stuff called HI-Yeild bc it says its a spreaker sticker bc i want to use neem as folair and soil drench..i keep saying ppl say dish soap...dawn liquid dish detergent will it work?

 

[Team Microbe]

hey ozziAI i kow this thread is a bit old but what is the best emulsifier? i got dyna-gro protekt but can i use the dyna gro protekt as a folair spray as well? i was gonna get some stuff called HI-Yeild bc it says its a spreaker sticker bc i want to use neem as folair and soil drench..i keep saying ppl say dish soap...dawn liquid dish detergent will it work?

You want to go with Dr. Bronners my man... either that or some Agsil16H (potassium silicate) they sell that stuff at www.buildasoil.com it's pretty much like Silica Blast but in a pure form (and way more affordable)

http://www.amazon.com/Dr-Bronners-O...571&sr=8-3&keywords=Dr.+Bronners+Soap+organic

 

[MrTea]

Dyna gro protekt works just fine for foliars. It's just potassium silicate and water.

 

[Kygiacomo!!!]

@ team microbe..thanks bro i got the dyno-gro protekt already so i will use it and see the results next year..bugs are bad in my area so hopefully this will be the thing i need out in the bush!

@mr tea thanks man! i have also read that the protekt helps to thicken the steams which is a added bonus in the battle against bud rot

 

[Kygiacomo!!!]

hey guys after finding out about karanaja oil to be added with neem i see alot more organic value for it now as well as kill the bastards that hurt our ladys..i figuted this would be the apporatie place to put it since it does involve neem..i found some interesting stuff on karanja oil..i got a 8oz bottle last nite and 5lb of neem meal and 5 lb of karanja seed meal..

Karanja Oil
Karanja Oil is extracted from seeds of Karanja Tree (Pongamia glabra) which is commonly found in India. Karanja Oil is used in agriculture and pharmacy just like neem oil. It has similar insecticidal properties as neem oil and acts against a number of pests and insects.

It is pale yellow in colour and viscous. It is known for its medicinal and antiseptic properties for centuries in its naive India. it is often used in pet care for the treatment of fleas, mange and scabies. As it has insecticidal properties it is great for agriculture use serving as a natural pest repellent. It is also used for skin care purposes and can be used to treat eczema, psoriasis, skin ulcers, dandruff. Karanjin is an acaricide and insecticide. Acaricide means a product that is used to kill mites (Acarina). Karanjin is used as bio pesticide / bio insecticide and is reported to have nitrification inhibitory properties.[1]


It also shows therapeutic effects similar to neem oil but its aroma is different from it. It has a milder and more versatile aroma and thus is commonly used in cosmetics for soap making, lotions, hair oils, shampoos.

It is prepared by Cold Pressed Technology and Double Filtered pure oil derived from supreme quality pongam seeds.Karanja Oil is manufactured and tested that is free from Aflotoxin B1, B2, G1 and G2 which are carcinogenic and toxic.

Karanjin is the main active ingredient of Karanja Oil. It acts as an acaricide and insecticide. Karanjin also have nitrification inhibitory properties.

Karanja Cake (Organic Fertilizer)
The Karanja tree (Pongammia glabra and Pongammia Pinnata) can be found throughout India and Karanja tree is popularly known for its medicinal properties, and it is traditionally used for many years. We manufacture Karanja Cake by processing pure karanja seeds, and crushing pure karanja seeds ,extract karanja oil from it. Karanja cake contains high N-P-K values, and it is really an excellent organic fertilizer.

Effective as a Nematicide
Karanja Cake is proven to be effective against root knot nematodes e.g. (Meloidogyne incognita). Karanja cake also has broad spectrum activity against a wide category of Nematodes.

Rich Source of NPK
Karanja Cake have rich quantity of NPK in organic form. Being totally botanical product it contains 100% natural NPK content and other essential micro nutrients as well. The pongamia cake is very good to use as organic fertilizers as they are a rich source of NPK which improves soil fertility. The cake when applied to the soil, also has a pesticidal value, particularly against nematodes, and others similar diseases. As a natural fertilizer, it can be mixed with neem cake pellets to give a synergic result.

Can be used with other Fertilizers
Farmers who want to switch over to Karanja Cake should apply both simultaneously, decreasing the chemical or current fertilizers slowly. This compatibility give piece of mind without adding extra cost. When applied with nitrogenous fertilizers, gives a synergistic result by slow down the process of conversion of Nitrogenous compounds into Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates and improving Efficiency. Karanjin is an acaricide and insecticide. Acaricide means a product that is used to kill mites (Acarina). Karanjin is used as bio pesticide / bio insecticide and is reported to have nitrification inhibitory properties.[1]
low Release Nitrogen, Aerates, Nourishes, Promotes Plant Growth & Resistance, Improves Soil Quality. Excellent for Vegan Organic Gardening.

Karanja Cake is the residue obtained from Karanja seed kernels which have been crushed to extract the oil. Rich in N-P-K, it is an excellent organic fertilizer. Karanja cake has been known to enrich the soil and protect the plant. Earthworm populations have been known to increase where neem cake has been applied.

Use full strength or mixed with other organic (kelp, seaweed, manure, etc.)
Apply before (the area can be prepared up to a week or 10 days before planting) or during planting or for established plants around root zone. Use mixed into the soil 6-8 inches or as basal dressing.
Coverage:180 to 360 lbs./acre, 1lb. for plots 100 to 160 sq.ft.


How To Mix into your Container Soil:
1/2 Cup per cubic foot will be plenty (Cubic foot is about 7.5 gallons of soil)
1 cup weighs 6.5 ounces.


Exercise caution when mixing soil. Be sure to leave soil mix to rest and compost for at least 1 week. The Longer the better.
Use VERY little for any seed starting soil.
The Karanja tree- Pongamia Glabra - is widely distributed in tropical Asia. The tree is hardy and drought resistant. The 'Pongam' tree is commonly found in India and grows to a height of about 1 m.

The oil of the Karanja or Pongam is used in pharmacy and in agriculture. Like, neem oil, it is excellent for skin and hair and used in the manufacture of soaps, creams, lotions and other skin and hair care products.

A mixture containing equal amounts of neem and karanja oil is very effective on animals for skin problems.



i read up on the nitrifcation inhinitory properties and its pretty interesting shit also here is a link to read a bit more from a univer study..i know its always been said to mix wtih need it will enhance it..i know why now but it can also be used alone without neem..i just havent found that is has systemic properaties..the good thing about it tho when used with neem its another active ingrediant that neem dont have and has a similar mode of action to kill pests..but the nitrification inhinitroy has got me more interested as i dont recalling neem haveing that..i got mine from neem resource but as long u see this name its the real deal"Ahimsa Certified Organic "----Kyg

oh and here is a univer study on it as well...http://sitem.herts.ac.uk/aeru/bpdb/Reports/2057.htm

 

[who dat is]

After playing around with adding emulsified neem with my last grow I would hesitate to ever do it again. I didn't see any benefit and had just as many fungus gnats as ever. I can't speak to mixing neem meal into the soil though. Personally, I'm going to focus on keeping the most proactively healthy plants that would in turn ward off most problems before they even ever develop into problems. By all means experiment with what you want, just as I did, but I wouldn't recommend it. I still worry about what, if any, effect the neem has on beneficials and mycorhizal fungi. Before diving in perhaps have a control plant of the same cut to note the differences?

 

[Kygiacomo!!!]

After playing around with adding emulsified neem with my last grow I would hesitate to ever do it again. I didn't see any benefit and had just as many fungus gnats as ever. I can't speak to mixing neem meal into the soil though. Personally, I'm going to focus on keeping the most proactively healthy plants that would in turn ward off most problems before they even ever develop into problems. By all means experiment with what you want, just as I did, but I wouldn't recommend it. I still worry about what, if any, effect the neem has on beneficials and mycorhizal fungi. Before diving in perhaps have a control plant of the same cut to note the differences?

yes im gonna do a control plant this year when my season starts outdoors..i think alot of my issues was from useing mircle grow so i had fungas gnats from the start..and i would always lose 2-3 plants a year useing that shit..the larvae would tunnel into my stem and kill it..i had no ideal for last 2 years what the hell they was so me and my dad just called them worms bc thats what they looked like when i would pull the dead plant up..i also got a bunch of stuff from sierra natural science as well as mosquiteo dunks ready for battle but may not need it since i will be useing happy frog and light warrior but wanted to have it on hand..i will be doing a few controls next year from a few total organic holes vs syntheic nutes..to be honest i had no ideal what beneficals was till last year around oct so been doing alot of studying on it and i got the lush roots from DEM to inncolut with..gonna do a test on that as well and see how much better growth i get vs not doing it..will have the results around mid to end of sept..

i will be useing protekt to emulsfiy my neem for folair and soil drenches btw