My plants dont look too good

[greencalyx]

Hello all, this is my first grow, and I am having some problems for a few weeks now.

I am using fox farm soil and nutrients. I think my problems started with me thinking not knowing when to start feeding. I thought the soil would be good for at least 4weeks after transplant, but I started seeing deficiencies at about 3weeks. I had no nutes at the time, so I had to order them and my plants spent about 7-10 days in this state until my nutes arrived.

Now, I was expecting them to bounce right back once I started feeding, instead they have just been languishing ever since.

Been feeding half strength FF Grow Big and cal mag. If anything the plants have slowly gotten worse.

I changed things up this week, and started spraying with mag, and using distilled water rather than tap. My tap is very hard with a good bit of calcium that could have been causing a lockout. Plants are in 1.5gal pots and will be transplanted to 3gal pots next weekend. Anything else I can do?

Here's how a couple look today and there are more pics on my thread in the diaries section.

 

[St. Phatty]

Are you growing under an LED ?

 

[greencalyx]

Yes, running at 250W currently

 

[Three Berries]

They look over watered to me. From my view....

 

[greencalyx]

Yeah, I've been struggling with getting watering right. I use my finger to check moisture, and don't water until the top 2-3in are bone dry and I'll wait until a few plants look like this (which I assume is showing thirst) before I water.

Not the first time I heard that could be the problem. It just seems really dry when I water, but I am totally new to this, so you guys are probably right. I'll try waiting a bit longer between waterings

 

[linde]

I would say the opposite. U mean to tell me that u let the soil get bone dry 3 inches down in a 1.5 gallon pot? You're under watering. If u an pick up the pot is it light? Water them suckers they're not succulents. Cannabis needs water folks. Also your pH is off.

 

[St. Phatty]

Yes, running at 250W currently

Your soil is probably AOK.

They probably don't like the light spectrum from the LED.

I had a similar problem. It completely disappeared when I went back to a 1000 watt HID.

For some reason, Cannabis does pretty well in Veg. under a deficient light spectrum, with just 3500 K & 5200 K color spectrum - as I was using with the screw in LED's.

But then when you go to flowering with the same light - it's like they're missing an essential vitamin.

But just because a light works in veg. doesn't mean it will work in Flower.

 

[Three Berries]

What do you have the pot sitting in? Is there some sort of spacer for better drainage? Did you add any perlite or other soil drainage amendment? Overwatering and too dry may look the same as the roots are not working when too wet and nothing there when too dry.

I don't go much more than three days for water usually when in veg, flower it's every day. My seedlings this last time I put the solo cups with sprouts in a bucket of the same soil and watered the seedlings every day an 30mL or so but the added soil acted as a sink for the seedling cups so never got too wet.

I add perlite and in veg it always seems like I put in too much but come flower time and the roots have filled up the container it works out good. Going though 500-1500 mL a day on the flowering ones. 1500 mL is to get some run off.

 

[linde]

If u fert plants that are too dry it will burn the roots. By just looking those plants are drooping. Too dry. Be sure to give a lug of straight water first before giving fert. I would say when u water make sure to water heavily. Than let dry out. Do t just give them a little drink. When u water the pots should feel heavy. Don't be afraid to water people. Just keep good air flow obviously and all will be good.

 

[greencalyx]

What do you have the pot sitting in? Is there some sort of spacer for better drainage? Did you add any perlite or other soil drainage amendment? Overwatering and too dry may look the same as the roots are not working when too wet and nothing there when too dry.

I don't go much more than three days for water usually when in veg, flower it's every day. My seedlings this last time I put the solo cups with sprouts in a bucket of the same soil and watered the seedlings every day an 30mL or so but the added soil acted as a sink for the seedling cups so never got too wet.

I add perlite and in veg it always seems like I put in too much but come flower time and the roots have filled up the container it works out good. Going though 500-1500 mL a day on the flowering ones. 1500 mL is to get some run off.

I have the pots sitting on the tent floor with nothing catching the runoff. I try to minimize runoff to maybe 50mL coming from each pot.

No perlite for drainage. The drainage holes in the pot are really big, so I put each pot into a second, with Mason jar rings for spacers and have the drainage holes offset between the two to catch some soil that may leak out

 

[linde]

Gotta have trays underneath brother

 

[greencalyx]

If u fert plants that are too dry it will burn the roots. By just looking those plants are drooping. Too dry. Be sure to give a lug of straight water first before giving fert. I would say when u water make sure to water heavily. Than let dry out. Do t just give them a little drink. When u water the pots should feel heavy. Don't be afraid to water people. Just keep good air flow obviously and all will be good.

This makes sense.

I did overwater once early on, so I was trying to be extra careful not to do it again and ended up on the other extreme.

Just to make sure I understand, are you saying I should water first, the same day that I fert, or that I give a good plain watering first, and then in a few days when it is time to water again, use ferts?

Last I checked, my runoff was 6.5. That was with pH 7 distilled water. And ever since then I have been pH adjusting the water and fertilizer to 6.5 also. It was a few weeks ago when I last checked. Perhaps it's time to check again

 

[linde]

Yes if your pot is bone dry and light then give a lug of straight water. Let sit for 30 minutes. Then give fert. Roots don't grow then dry. They die. You can't let soil get too dry between waterings.

 

[Creeperpark]

Knowing the amount of water a container holds is key. If a person knows the water volume of a container they would know how much water is in the container on a watering day just by watering until runoff.

 

[Creeperpark]

example. If I have a 3-gallon container mix that holds 3 liters of water from dry to wet, I know my water volume or capacity. On a watering day if I give a plant 2 liters of water until I start getting run off I know 1 liter was already there. Measuring the days between waterings tells me how much water to give the plant just by knowing the water volume with the measurement used. The idea is never to let the root ball dry out completely or keep all 3 liters of water in the pot for too long.

 

[Hillbilly69]

A lot of good advice here that should help you. I think you have a combination of things going on. You used hard water so there could be some bicarbonate build up that could lock out some nuts, but you've fixed that with a better source of water (don't forget your cal mag if your using filtered water). Your pots are kind of small for that size plant so if they are heavy rooters they may be root bound, but you'll be fixing that with a transplant to bigger pots. And there's a watering issue going on that others have provided tricks to get better at it. I water based on weight, when pots are light, water until run off to make sure soil is saturated, then let them go till pots are light again. You'll notice a considerable weight difference when they are dry vs saturated. Check your PH, which your doing and a good rule of thumb is water-water-feed. Don't over think it, and let the plants do their thing, too many newer growers love their plants to death Good luck my friend, we've all been where you are now, keep reading and asking questions and you'll get the hang of it!

 

[Hammerhead]

You need to know a few things before you can attempt to recover their health.

Water with RO or TAP and measure the runoff for PH/EC. More than likely you have a lockout from a low PH and high EC/ppm. If the EC/PPM is high you need to flush this out before any ph fixes will work.

I don't see any #'s on what your EC/PPM feed is ? If you feed say 500ppm and your getting 1000ppm in the runoff your soil needs to be flushed. The high levels of nutrients will cause the PH to be very low.

Whatever your feed EC/PPM is, the runoff shouldn't be way off from that.

For soil/Soilless a good ph range is 6-6.4.

In veg, I use a PH range of 6.2- 6.5. For most, my ph feed is 6.4. My PPM is 450-500ppm.

In flower, I use an EC of 1.1-1.3 with a PH range of 6-6.4, with most at 6.3.


Once you get the PH, PPM/EC good you should be good to go.

 

[TanzanianMagic]

The way I see it is that the plants are

- overfed
- underwatered
- the pots are too small

Potting up would solve a lot of issues. The plants are essentially healthy.

- Watering

Water your medium slowly and thoroughly, and then don't water again until the soil is no longer moist in the morning.

This solves the issue of both underwatering and overwatering, it takes out variables like temperature, relative humidity, plant size, pot size, recent repotting, season, region, etc. In a way it individualizes the watering schedule to that plant and your setup/environment.

After repotting, you might be watering 1 x per week or 2 x. In flower, you might be watering every day. However with this method, you'll never over-water or under-water.

Also keep in mind that when you let your soil dry a little like that, it also concentrates the nutrients - so always keep the nutrient concentration lower than you otherwise would. On fertilized soil, i would begin with 0.2 EC of high P/K nutrients and 0.1 EC of epsom salt for magnesium. I would also add a tablespoon of magnesium lime per gallon to the medium before use, and let that soak in water for at least a day or 2. That prevents a lot of pH issues, adds magnesium and calcium.

The thing to keep in mind is that you're not watering your plants, you're watering the medium. If the medium is soggy, the plant doesn't need more water, whether that's what the schedule says or not.

Right now, you're in the underwatering stage of the learning curve.

- pH

If you're using organics, I would go for a pH of 7.0. At least mobile nutrients (N, P, K, Mg) won't be locked out like they're being locked out now. Also, the nutrients themselves lower the pH. So 7.0 is safe range to feed in organics. The medium can go from 6.0 to 8.0 and you won't notice the pH swings.

 

[greencalyx]

Thanks for all the help everyone!

So I tested runoff today using plain distilled water.

I tested four different plants. One that looked a bit better than the rest, one average looking one, and two of the sicker looking ones.

The pH ranged from 6.1-6.75. Just one 6.75 outlier and the others were 6.1, 6.1 and 6.3.

Not sure where ppm is supposed to be at for distilled water runoff, but three were around 420, and another was 700ppm. The one at 700 was the one with curled leaves in my first post. Here

I think this is the one that was at pH 6.75.


I should state that ALL of my plants look unwell. Just some look worse than others

I did get my pots I needed to transplant into unexpectedly today. So, I can do the transplants this weekend.

I should probably flush at least the higher ppm one before I do that though, right?

 

[TanzanianMagic]

Thanks for all the help everyone!

So I tested runoff today using plain distilled water.

I tested four different plants. One that looked a bit better than the rest, one average looking one, and two of the sicker looking ones.

The pH ranged from 6.1-6.75. Just one 6.75 outlier and the others were 6.1, 6.1 and 6.3.

Not sure where ppm is supposed to be at for distilled water runoff, but three were around 420, and another was 700ppm. The one at 700 was the one with curled leaves in my first post. Here View attachment 18825720

I think this is the one that was at pH 6.75.
View attachment 18825721

I should state that ALL of my plants look unwell. Just some look worse than others

I did get my pots I needed to transplant into unexpectedly today. So, I can do the transplants this weekend.

I should probably flush at least the higher ppm one before I do that though, right?

Actually 700 PPM is a bit low to about right. Also, it is important to only measure the very first runoff.

The pH however is way too low.

What I would do to begin with, is:

- mix 1 tablespoon per gallon of magnesium lime into the foxfarm mix. 2 if you have low PPM water.
- saturate that with water/nutrients for at least a day.
- repot and feed only with 100 PPM of a high P/K nutrient, and 50 PPM of epsom salt (MgSO4). The extra P will stimulate root growth.

When you repot, it is extremely important to not have the rootball touch soil that is hotter than itself.

This will burn the roots and kill the plant through infection. It is best to fill the new pots 3/4 with fertilized soil, then put an inch of unfertilized soil on top of that, put the rootball on top of that and fill in the sides with more unfertilized soil.

- after repotting, saturate the medium thoroughly and slowly. Don't water again until the top of the soil is dry after the lights go on in the morning.
- only use nutrients at a pH of 7.0, if you have low PPM water, a little higher is ok - 7.0-7.5
- don't use pH-down

The nutrients themselves already lower the pH, even at lower doses, as the soil dries, they concentrate, which is why it is important to keep the PPM of the nutrients relatively low. 25% of the recommended rate. The drying will increase this EC 4-fold, so you're already safe.

Lower nutrient use also improves the taste of the final smoke.