My home sounds like it's making pop corn...in the dark!

[downtoearth]

Ok, so I keep tripping the breaker in my garage. I'm overloaded obviously. The only think I know about electricity is that if your not careful, it causes you pain and a possibility of death. With that said, I need some advice.

I have a total of 72.19 actual amps being pulled from my grow equipment alone. These numbers are ascertained form the labels and some quick math on 3 1k HPS/MH lights. I'm guessing that the line will probably have to be at least 100 feet into the grow room.

1. Should I just throw a couple of 50 amp breakers in the box out in the garage and run the two new lines into the grow room? Then just split up the power draw evenly as possible?
OR
2. Should I run a single line from the garage into a sub panel located in the grow room?

Which is cheaper? What wire gauge is needed? This is about all I know right now. I will answer questions as they are asked of me. I'm open for debate and suggestions from all. You guys are the best. Thank you so much for all your help. Peace.

 

[whatsupdoc]

Man, you need to talk to Rives (https://www.icmag.com/ic/member.php?u=136396).

He's given the best electrical advice I've seen on these forums.

Good luck and....don't die!

 

[Skinny Leaf]

A sub panel would be for the best. Or you could run 5-20 amp circuits on 12 gauge wire.

 

[downtoearth]

thus far a sub panel would be easier I think. I'm going to need at least two 50 amp lines for sure. I just landed an air pump for my res that draws 4.2 amps alone lol. I haven't got to talk with Rives yet as I have been busy. Thanks for the input man!

 

[joe fresh]

imo you wanna run close to 80 amps you need a 100 amp sub panel, then in the 100amp sub panel you can divide all the power loads evenly so no single breaker is overloaded

couldnt tell you what each breaker should be cuz i dont know your setup, but you need a 100 amp sub panel.

i would go for option 2 and run one single line to a 100 amp sub panel to the grow...


why do you draw so much power? is everything running on 120v? i run 7 tons of A/C and 15 lights and dont go over 48 amps...ofcourse i have everything on relays...


but yes rives and iron lion arethe 2 best sparkys we have here imo, they can give you better info

 

[rives]

As the posts above said, you would probably be better off with a dedicated sub-panel. However, I think the best place to start would be to see how much of your equipment you can convert from 120v to 240. You may not be aware of it, but equipment draws half the amperage at 240v then it does at 120, though the wattage remains constant. If you are only running 3k, it is hard for me to imagine how you got to 72 amps. At that rate, you are already close to full capacity on a 100 amp panel (as Joe alluded to, you only want to run at 80% of the breaker capacity for a continuous load, which is defined as anything that runs over 3 hours at a time).

Many sub-panels have 125 amp buswork and cost about the same as the 100 amp models, so you could go that route and have a little room to expand into. Be aware that if this panel is to be fed from a sub-panel in your garage, it is unlikely that you have enough power to that point to carry this much additional power to your growroom sub-panel - it would probably have to be fed from the main panel.

To the above posters - thanks for the kind words!

 

[I.M. Boggled]

Electricity can be very unforgiving some days...

Electricity can be very unforgiving some days...

Ya'all take care and beware when overloading circuits, especially in ones dwelling, waking up dead really,really sucks...it's been known to ruin ones whole day.
I believe a 1000 watt copper coil ballast eats about 10,,,11 amps on 120, half that @ 240 volts, if I do recall correctly.
Note:
A 220 volt circuit is a three wire circuit with two hot wires and a shared neutral (white) wire so that there would be 27 amps on each hot wire for a total of 27 amps at 220 volts.

IMB



Basic Princples of Electricity
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=16384
“
Electrical Safety for Indoor Grows,”
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=15468

Extension Cord Safety
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=40988

Electrocution prevention w/ GFCI's (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter's)
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=4315

Smoke Alarms…Detectors
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=16732

Fire Extinguisher: 101
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=16728

 

[downtoearth]

Greetings

Greetings

imo you wanna run close to 80 amps you need a 100 amp sub panel, then in the 100amp sub panel you can divide all the power loads evenly so no single breaker is overloaded

couldnt tell you what each breaker should be cuz i dont know your setup, but you need a 100 amp sub panel.

i would go for option 2 and run one single line to a 100 amp sub panel to the grow...


why do you draw so much power? is everything running on 120v? i run 7 tons of A/C and 15 lights and dont go over 48 amps...ofcourse i have everything on relays...


but yes rives and iron lion arethe 2 best sparkys we have here imo, they can give you better info

Thanks Joe! I just realized that my main load center is WAY out of date and WAY dangerous to have in service. It's an old Federal Pacific 200 amp box. So, I have found a replacement for it at Lowe's for $205.74 (breakers included)

I have opted to just drop two 50 amp lines into the room instead of having to buy a sub panel on top of everything else. I assume this is going to be cheaper. I would just run a couple power receptacles off the lines and wall mount yes? And away we go?

As far as that type of amperage draw goes, I have 3 1000 watt HID's, aeroflow 60 site with pump, portable AC/HEATER unit, 4 inline centrifugal fans, and other misc. pumps for the res. and cloner, as well as the chiller. I added it all up from the labels. I also just added another pump that draws 4.2 amps! lol It was attached to the bottom of a lobster tank. It retails for $350 but got it off Craigs List for $50. Boy does it blow some serious air ha ha.

Any other suggestions? I'm all ears.

 

[downtoearth]

Many thanks Rives!

Many thanks Rives!

As the posts above said, you would probably be better off with a dedicated sub-panel. However, I think the best place to start would be to see how much of your equipment you can convert from 120v to 240. You may not be aware of it, but equipment draws half the amperage at 240v then it does at 120, though the wattage remains constant. If you are only running 3k, it is hard for me to imagine how you got to 72 amps. At that rate, you are already close to full capacity on a 100 amp panel (as Joe alluded to, you only want to run at 80% of the breaker capacity for a continuous load, which is defined as anything that runs over 3 hours at a time).

Many sub-panels have 125 amp buswork and cost about the same as the 100 amp models, so you could go that route and have a little room to expand into. Be aware that if this panel is to be fed from a sub-panel in your garage, it is unlikely that you have enough power to that point to carry this much additional power to your growroom sub-panel - it would probably have to be fed from the main panel.

To the above posters - thanks for the kind words!

The main breaker load center in the garage is a 200 amp service. The house is rather small. I have been so busy with many tasks that I haven't got a clue just yet as to how to convert 120 to 240. Here is the thing though. I don't pay for electric so I don't worry about it. And no I don't steal it either lol. It's legit. I just want to be safe and stable, not having to worry about fires or equipment failure. It's too bad I wasn't in on the Federal Pacific class action law suit a few years ago. Hell, I didn't know how deadly this breaker box was until I started this grow. Blessing in disguise.

So I assume that I can place 2 50 amp breakers in the new box, run the 6 Ga. wire into the grow room, but what do I attach to the end of these lines? How do I split them to be 120v per receptacle?

I did call my power company and they said that it would be "okay" if I removed the tamper tag and pulled the meter to cut power off to my breaker box for replacement. Since I own the home and the area in which I live isn't known for electricity theft. That and the fact that she pulled my account and saw that I pay nothing lol. She told me to just make sure to call back the electric company to have them put a new tamper tag on.

Thoughts?

 

[rives]

So I assume that I can place 2 50 amp breakers in the new box, run the 6 Ga. wire into the grow room, but what do I attach to the end of these lines? How do I split them to be 120v per receptacle?

Very good idea to get rid of the FPE equipment! As far as getting from 50 amp circuits to 120v receptacles, you have to have equipment in the middle, which is why I recommended a sub-panel earlier. The other option would be to set a couple of 4-wire dryer plugs and power something similar to the equipment from DXSound or a variety of other suppliers. These are basically a sub-panel fed with with a dryer or range cord (make sure you get a 4-wire system, not 3), and feeds some receptacles downstream of the sub. I believe timers, relays, etc are optional. For the power levels that you are talking about, you would need at least two of them, and they are going to cost substantially more than a sub by the time you are done.

Converting from 120 to 240 doesn't save you any money on the power bill. You are charged for wattage used, and that will remain the same. In order to carry the same amount of power on 120 as you can on 240, you will have to have much larger wire or twice as many circuits. 240v saves you money on the infrastructure, not the power bill.

 

[downtoearth]

Ok. I'm starting to get it. Two of the 3 1k ballasts can run @240 so that's a good thing. The other is a dog, still working, but a dog. As it stands right now, I have a total of 66.89 Amps. Question. I like the simplicity of the plug and play boxes from DXSound.

Would you (Rivas) or somebody else be willing to tell me a good plug and play system for the hydro grow tent I have going on below? Like, what you would buy for this amount of juice? Just a point of reference would help at this point.

1k Ballast: 8.3 amps (not a 240v ballast)
1k Ballast: (4.75 amps on 240v mode)
1k Ballast: (4.75 amps on 240v mode)
T5 Fixture: 2.0 amps
Exhaust fan: 1.0 amps
Exhaust fan: 1.0 amps
500 CFM carbon filter fan: 1.0 amps
500 CFM carbon filter fan: 1.0 amps
Active Aqua Chiller: 2.2 amps
Aeroflow pump: 1.5 amps
Portable AC Unit: 9 amps
Extra air pump 4.2 amps

Total Amps: 40.7 amps

 

[slackx]

Ok. I'm starting to get it. Two of the 3 1k ballasts can run @240 so that's a good thing. The other is a dog, still working, but a dog. As it stands right now, I have a total of 66.89 Amps. Question. I like the simplicity of the plug and play boxes from DXSound.

Would you (Rivas) or somebody else be willing to tell me a good plug and play system for the hydro grow tent I have going on below? Like, what you would buy for this amount of juice? Just a point of reference would help at this point.

1k Ballast: 9.5 amps
1k Ballast: 9.5 amps (4.75 amps on 240v mode)
1k Ballast: 9.5 amps (4.75 amps on 240v mode)
1k HPS Bulb: amps 8.33
1k HPS Bulb: amps 8.33
1k MH Bulb: amps 8.33
T5 Fixture: 2.0 amps
Exhaust fan: 1.0 amps
Exhaust fan: 1.0 amps
500 CFM carbon filter fan: 1.0 amps
500 CFM carbon filter fan: 1.0 amps
Active Aqua Chiller: 2.2 amps
Aeroflow pump: 1.5 amps
Portable AC Unit: 9 amps
Extra air pump 4.2 amps

Total Amps: 66.89 amps

bulbs don't pull more amperage after the fact- just the ballast not sure if its a typo but it looks like you posted that the bulbs are pulling separate amperage than the ballast which it does not. I'm coming up with 41.9 Amps, and all you'd need is 1 30 amp 220 line for the ballasts and some normal 110 20 amp breakers for the rest of the shit

 

[downtoearth]

Thank you

Thank you

bulbs don't pull more amperage after the fact- just the ballast not sure if its a typo but it looks like you posted that the bulbs are pulling separate amperage than the ballast which it does not. I'm coming up with 41.9 Amps, and all you'd need is 1 30 amp 220 line for the ballasts and some normal 110 20 amp breakers for the rest of the shit

This is a non stop learning ground lol. Thank you for picking this out of my mess That seems MUCH better lol.

 

[slackx]

This is a non stop learning ground lol. Thank you for picking this out of my mess That seems MUCH better lol.

No problem man, if ya need help mapping shit out and planning how everything gets wired just shoot me a PM i'll be glad to help.

 

[Midnight]

Your ballasts and lamps only pull about 8.3 amps each, not 9 for the ballast and 8 for the light. Also, you can get a device at lowes/home depot called a kill a watt. It's about $25.00, you plug it in the outlet and then plug whatever electrical devie you want to measure into it. It tells you exactly how much wattage that the device is pulling. From there just use ohms law to figure out your amperage, or you can just skip using the kill a watt and just use ohms law to begin with.

And for fire hazards i recommend one of these. Please excuse the cheesy porn music.
[YOUTUBEIF]STjMZz8gxbA[/YOUTUBEIF]

 

[rives]

Now that you have your load requirements down to a reasonable level, I'm not sure how much further help you need. If the DXSound approach appeals to you, you might pm HammerHead to find what changes he made to his unit after the fact. DX had used some wiring methods that were a little worrisome, but in his defense, I think that his competitor's all build the same way and he has to be competitive with them. I think he will build a unit however you want, just be aware that it will cost a little more to do it the way that, I at least, feel it should be done.

Keep in mind that you don't want to exceed 80% of the circuit breaker rating with a load that runs continuously for 3+ hours, stay away from the bullshit of running 240v on 120v receptacles, and make sure that equipment is protected at the amperage that is appropriate. By this last, I mean not to run 20 amp receptacles behind a 30 amp breaker.

Holler back if you have more questions.

 

[downtoearth]

Howdy

Howdy

Now that you have your load requirements down to a reasonable level, I'm not sure how much further help you need. If the DXSound approach appeals to you, you might pm HammerHead to find what changes he made to his unit after the fact. DX had used some wiring methods that were a little worrisome, but in his defense, I think that his competitor's all build the same way and he has to be competitive with them. I think he will build a unit however you want, just be aware that it will cost a little more to do it the way that, I at least, feel it should be done.

Keep in mind that you don't want to exceed 80% of the circuit breaker rating with a load that runs continuously for 3+ hours, stay away from the bullshit of running 240v on 120v receptacles, and make sure that equipment is protected at the amperage that is appropriate. By this last, I mean not to run 20 amp receptacles behind a 30 amp breaker.

Holler back if you have more questions.

I just need two outlets to run the two HID's @240v Which type of outlet do I need for this?

 

[rives]

I just need two outlets to run the two HID's @240v Which type of outlet do I need for this?

6-15 receptacles are for 15 amp, 240 volt circuits. They look like a conventional 15a 120v receptacle except the slots are turned horizontally. They can be a little difficult to find - the following is for a Decora style on Ebay. Any electrical supplier should have them, but Home Depot or Lowes don't usually seem to stock them.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leviton-Whi...304?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item519d08cba0

 

[downtoearth]

Okay. From my garage is a 200 AMP main breaker boxc. In this breaker box I'll have a 100 AMP breaker and line running into the 100 AMP sub panel of my choice. Within this sub panel is where I will place one 15 AMP breaker and a line running into this 240V receptacle? So I can plug in the two HID's on 240v mode? Does this sound right?

 

[Hammerhead]

IMO you need a sub pannel. You can not run a 50a breaker to a 240v 20a outlet...The largest outlet 6-20r can Handel is 20a. There is no other way unless you use outlets rated for 50a then your sending 50a to your equipment not safe not safe ....

I used 6-20r 240v outlets . You can not plug a 120v device into it. 240v 20a/15a breaker with 50a feeding it is unsafe