Mosaic Virus in Cannabis pics

[BongRipkenJR.]

I have had this problem on newer leaves since the beginning of veg. My plants are actually very healthy looking and doing great! Growing at an incredible rate. I am now 14 days into flower and my garden looks like this.

 

[Love2herb]

I feel like a fucking idiot. Got rid of this tmv shit like 5 months back , now first clone I get from a buddy just started doing the same shit 3 days after I get it. Noticed some pests on it as well. Once I put it in the cab I spread diatemacious earth over soil and dusted some on plants. Just dumped plant today , since it only showed signs of it today. I'm gonna be bummed if it is spreadin to the other ladies.

 

[toohighmf]

View attachment 112167

I have had this problem on newer leaves since the beginning of veg. My plants are actually very healthy looking and doing great! Growing at an incredible rate. I am now 14 days into flower and my garden looks like this.

what wattage and reflector are you using? did you go straight to bloom food at 12/12? looks like a micro defic or bleaching

 

[Cabron]

I had the "other thing virus" a few years back. I had to move to get rid of it..... it was the worst thing I've ever dealt with. Spider mites are a walk in the park compared to that shit. It has to be a different virus than the mv that most people here are dealing with. Not that any of it is any good, but that other shit completely destroys crops. Completely. There is nothing that you can do to stop it, and it's contagious as a motherfucker.

That's the one ....
That describes the virus that was the focus of the OP
The many others that are discussed here are not.

And the virus that the Chem line has acquired is also not
the destructive virus that the OP had intended on focusing on.


If you have this virus ,you would simply have plants that are
in need of being burnt,,,there is no hope,they are zombies...



I wish the people here wasting money and energy on these test strips
would pay attention,,,,there are as many variants of mosaic viruses as
there are flu viruses,,,one test strip that is sold only covers one specific
virulent strain....you may as well go waste your money in the casinos...

Just because it tests negative doesn't clear you of a virus it only means that
your sample isn't positive for that specific strain the company used for that test.

maybe you tested negative for 4A but there's a matric ton of others that it may be
pretty simple concept!

 

[dancingroots]

I guess I should get my virus shots or burn them all and go back to brewing beer

 

[VenturaHwy]

The virus is spread by insects when they cut into the plant to feed. Also by humans when they cut into the plants when pruning. But a test could be done to see if you could spread the virus on purpose to an uninfected plant.

I have been virus free since I got rid of my clone which had it for many years. Until a plant that I grew from seed recently started showing the virus symptoms.

The plants that I've had that were infected were easy to spot. The signs are the discoloration and the twisting of the leaf towards the infected side of the leaf, (the infected side grows slower). I'll go take some pictures so you can see what I am talking about.

Again discoloration alone doesn't mean you have a virus....

You are right Cabron,
there are many variants of mosaic viruses, each test strip only covers one specific
virus, TMV for example... If you had CMV (Cucumber Mosaic Virus) or another mosaic virus it wouldn't test positive.

 

[VenturaHwy]

Virus shots, all from the same plant. The plant right next to it has not yet been infected. It was from the same seeds which had 4 different fathers and the same mother, KKSC.

Also I put the last picture up to show the overall health of the plant. Every plant I grow is perfect.... never a problem other than the virus which was only on one plant in the last year and a half.

 

[3dDream]

tmv?

 

[toohighmf]

this is the closest I seen to TMV. I have like 5 chems and 1 once in awhile a single plant may begin to show those signs, or half the blades suffer chlorosis, then the PH is adjusted, or the temps are brought down and all is well... perhaps enviromental stress triggers it. or could that just be the signs of environmental stress or severe PH drift....

Virus shots, all from the same plant. The plant right next to it has not yet been infected. It was from the same seeds which had 4 different fathers and the same mother, KKSC.

 

[BlueGrassToker]

Let me start by letting all those who are fixated on the TMV thing go ahead and throw your rocks now. I am thick skinned.

I see many forums doing the same thing as here...we have a poster who thinks they have the virus thing all figured out, and they seem to want to degrade others for not having the same fear of the virus as they do. Often times we will see things similar to "I have it all figured out and TMV is the cause of what I am seeing in my plants, and if you don't share the same fears as me then you are obviously an ignorant dumbass". ....or something along those lines.

I call bullshit. Big and high bullshit. Most all that are claiming TMV really don't have a clue as to what they are talking about, and it is IMO very irresponsible to try to stir up shit concerning the issue.
I see other boards posting up the very same "quotes" they find on such highly regarded sites such as Wikipedia (major eye roll), and others are simply falling at these peoples feet and thanking them for giving them the truth of things. This info should be stikied everywhere, right?
WRONG! What we are being told about TMV and cannabis is a big load of bullshit.

I highly doubt that ANY photo shown in this thread is even close to a TMV viral attack. I have seen TMV, have you? I bet not.
And for your info...TMV does NOT kill your plants. Funny how some are claiming this virus killed some of their plants, when in reality TMV does no such thing. So right off I can tell you that those folks had NO TMV. They had another issue going on.
But boy it sure is easy to blame a hosed grow on someone else's clone, aye?

Folks seem to be getting so wound up on this issue you see them swear off smoking around their grow for fear of the virus. Again, pure D bullshit of the highest order. There is nothing cigarette smoke would do to your plants even if you were smoking the hell out of infected tobacco.

You know, when we see leafs that half are OK and the other half is mutated and scrawny...that is not a clear indication of a virus at all. What it most likely being displayed is a deleterious genetic mutation. Same with discolorations and variegated leaves. It is also very likely that the plant is simply displaying it's reaction to stress of some sort of fashion.

I have yet to see any studies that would confirm any attacks on western drug cannabis by TMV (tobacco or tomato).

Who has some real info? Something besides Wiki bullshit?
btw...we do know that wiki is one of the poorest published places there is for valid information, yes? I mean, wiki is chock full of lies and bullshit, basically because anyone and their crazy brother can post up anything they wish there as if it had some truth...even if it doesn't. Some info at wiki is valid, much of it is not. It is only a good place to start a search, and NEVER should research be ended at wiki.

I'd be curious to see if anyone will post up a picture that actually looks like TMV. As of yet, I have not seen them.

*as a side...I think many folks who do read valid info from Wiki really don't understand what the are really reading. They seem to absorb about half of it, and run with it as if they got it all.

 

[RetroGrow]

Guys, whatever it actually is that ails your plants (difficult to prove), if you give 'em aspirin, they will fight off the infection and finish fine, although still infectious, so cuts are out of the question.
I have found that 325 MG plain aspirin per gallon of water/nute solution throughout the grow will allow your plants to finish unscathed. Can also be sprayed on the leaves.

 

[VenturaHwy]

You seem to be clueless BlueGrassToker. Show us all a picture of a virus on cannabis so we can all benefit from your great wisdom. You are the only one trying to stir up shit concerning the issue. Most everyone else is posting here for the benefit of those who really want to know the truth.

Here are the viruses that can infect cannabis -

At least five viruses cause problems in hemp: the hemp streak virus (HSV), alfalfa mosaic virus (AMV), cucumber mosaic virus (CMV), arabis mosaic virus (ArMV) and hemp mosaic virus (HMV)
(McPartland 1999).

http://www.druglibrary.org/olsen/hemp/IHA/iha03111.html

Viruses rarely kill Cannabis. They only exist and replicate in living plants. Viruses can, however, seriously reduce yields. Once acquired, they are nearly impossible to eradicate. Viruses invade all parts of plants. Pollen and seed infections transmit viruses to subsequent generations.
Five viral syndromes are described in the literature. In addition to these naturally-occurring infections, Hartowicz et al. (1971) screened 22 common plant viruses for their ability to infect wild hemp. Over half the viruses could infect Cannabis.
The hemp streak virus (HSV) is frequently cited on fiber cultivars in Europe. Foliar symptoms begin as a pale green chlorosis. Chlorotic areas soon develop into a series of interveinal yellow streaks or chevron-stripes. Some-times brown necrotic flecks appear, each fleck surrounded by a pale green halo. Flecks appear along the margins and tips of older leaves and often coalesce. Streak symptoms predominate in moist weather, flecks appear during dry weather. Leaf margins become wrinkled and leaf tips roll upward, leaflets curl into spirals. Whole plants assume a "wavy wilt" appearance.
The hemp mozaic virus (HMV) has been described on fiber cultivars in Europe and drug cultivars in Pakistan. Symptoms were described as a gray leaf mosaics. Three other viruses have been cited on European hemp—the alfalfa mozaic virus (=lucerne mozaic virus), cucumber mozaic virus, and the arabis mozaic virus. Many insects transmit these viruses as they feed from plant to plant. According to Ceapoiu (1958), the worst vectors of Cannabis viruses are bhang aphids (Phorodon cannabis), greenhouse whiteflies (Trialeudodes vaporariorum), onion thrips (Thrips tabaci) and green peach aphids (Myzus persicae).

 

[VenturaHwy]

tmv?

Looks like a virus. You can't get rid of a virus so that is one way to tell. I had a plant I got back in '84 that was perfect for many years, then it picked up a virus. Not one single crop after that was free of the mosaic coloring and deformed leaves. I got rid of the clone about a year and a half ago. This is the first plant that has had a virus since then.

The plant always got better during flowering but it was passed to the clones.

 

[toohighmf]

101: NO. PH Drift. perhaps a mild case of Ca defic, and as I look yonder I see purple stems. seems a good flush with calmg would sort you right out. what medium, PH, TDS, strain are we lookin at here?

 

[BlueGrassToker]

You seem to be clueless BlueGrassToker. Show us all a picture of a virus on cannabis so we can all benefit from your great wisdom. You are the only one trying to stir up shit concerning the issue. Most everyone else is posting here for the benefit of those who really want to know the truth.

I tell you what..I may brash and come on a bit strong when I have a firm stance on an issue, but clueless I aint pal. I suggest we try to discuss things in an intelligent manner and dispense with the personal attachments. That be OK with you, boss?
Although I did invite a stone throw, so I suppose you were well within your rights to rear back and call me clueless.


The truth...just what is the truth? See, that is the problem I have with a thread like this. I submit that there are very few if ANY pics of TMV in here.

And as far as the truth from the quotes you referenced...that is one of those things that is posted in multiple places on the net and is about all you are going to come up with when you do a search on the topic. Maybe if you read closer to what you are providing us you will find that there is not evidence of TMV being any sort of widespread problem. What, a report or two of some sort of mosaic virus attacking some euro fiber crops and one in Pakistan?
Maybe you should actually read up on the studies referenced in the info? Maybe it will help to show what the real truth about this issue, as it concerns us as growers, truly is.

And the picture diagnosis that happens here is often lacking and should always be taken with a big grain of salt. First of all there are young and impressionable growers that are taking the advise of what they assume are credible mentors and advisers, and actually culling plants simply because they think they have TMV...and they think this because of this and other similar threads. When the truth is that these folks should not have culled their plants, and should have sought another route to find out what was wrong. They didn't have any sort of TMV attack that's for sure.

Let's take the diagnosis you just gave out...
3dDream is showing you a leaf and you diagnose a virus right off. Well, see that is just what I am talking about. You really don't know what is wrong with that plant, and it must be a virus aye?
Well, look closer at things and we see the the picture is of a "keeper f13". F13 is notorious for carrying mutation. It will normally manifest itself in splotchy variegation or a leaf mutation.
You will see these anomalies in many of the F1's, and they pass on to the progeny quite easily.
The mutation that the F13 carries is a result of heavy inbreeding.

Here is a shot of a f13 cross mutant. This seedling is the progeny of a F13(f1) x reversed Herijuana.
Note how some leaves look similar to 3d's.

This is a full sibling seedling cast at the same time as it's mutant sister. She shows none of the mutation that her sibling does.

Here are the two sisters together for comparison.

I am fairly certain when I tell you that IF you do encounter tobacco mosaic virus (so very unlikely), any and all plants that are in the same grow will also be attacked.


Here is another mutant plant that was from the same mutant throwing f13 mom x sk/heri
Notice how one branch will have mutation, while another shows none of it.
This is a reveg of a previously flowered mutant. She grew just like this in flower as well. Seems like everything on a single branch is either mutated or it isn't, no mixing.

Here is a freshly rooted cut that came from the above mutant plant. I took it from a non-mutated branch. I am very curious as to if it will stay clean or will other branches on it mutate?

Displays of nutrient deficiencies, pH lockouts, and genetic mutations are the sorts of things we are seeing. And something to consider is that many are trying to diagnose their plants while they are very young, and before maturity. Plants can be very prone to wild things happening when the nutes are a bit high, temps are too high/low, or a whole host of other issues...most of which can be worked out if the correct path is taken. I have even seen some plants that show genetic mutation early on work it out a bit after maturity and show very little of it when kept healthy.

 

[VenturaHwy]

Now that was an excellent post BlueGrassToker, unlike the other one. First off I did not diagnose 3dDreams picture as a virus, I said it looked like a virus and then went on to say that a virus cannot be gotten rid of so to look for more clues. Now the pictures you show also look like a virus, but you say they are a mutant. So I say what proof do you have that they are mutants and not a virus? I would say viruses are common in the plant world, how common are mutations?

See I have to go with my experience I had with a plant I got back in about '84. For maybe 7 to 9 years the plant was perfect. A friend and me grew the same plant, it was all we grew. He grew it for maybe 10 years until he quit. Before he quit we both noticed the viral symptoms. We traded clones back and forth so that is how we would have both gotten it.

Now every single clone I grew for the next 17 or so years had the exact same symptoms. Not one single clone didn't have it. So what would be the odds of a plant mutating all of sudden? And what would be the odds of plant getting infected with a virus? My friend was a smoker and constantly topped and side trimmed his plants with finger nails and so did I.

Now a few years back I started a breeding program where I backcrossed to the mother plant I think 13 times. I would grow out some of the females once in a while and every single one would end up showing the viral symptoms. I had whiteflies and fungas gnats at that time which would have spread the virus, also seeds and pollen can transmit the virus.

And a year and a half after getting rid of the '84 clone I have a plant from seed that has the exact same symptoms as the clone had for all those years. There is no doubt it is the same.

So now tell what is more likely, a plant suddenly mutates after 8 years or that it gets infected by a virus? And another plant not related in anyway (plant from seed) gets the exact same mutation as the 84 clone? Viruses are not uncommon and that is what is much more likely.

And the pictures that you showed look just like a virus, so what proof do you have that they are a mutation? Tell me which is more common, plant viruses or a mutation that looks exactly like a virus?

One last thing, I was able to get 2 1/4 lbs off of one light with the infected plant. So I agree that no one should panic and throw out their plants.

 

[mrbiggs]

This little seedling is showing some deformities. Any idea's?

 

[BlueGrassToker]

Now that was an excellent post BlueGrassToker, unlike the other one. First off I did not diagnose 3dDreams picture as a virus, I said it looked like a virus and then went on to say that a virus cannot be gotten rid of so to look for more clues. Now the pictures you show also look like a virus, but you say they are a mutant. So I say what proof do you have that they are mutants and not a virus? I would say viruses are common in the plant world, how common are mutations?

See I have to go with my experience I had with a plant I got back in about '84. For maybe 7 to 9 years the plant was perfect. A friend and me grew the same plant, it was all we grew. He grew it for maybe 10 years until he quit. Before he quit we both noticed the viral symptoms. We traded clones back and forth so that is how we would have both gotten it.

Now every single clone I grew for the next 17 or so years had the exact same symptoms. Not one single clone didn't have it. So what would be the odds of a plant mutating all of sudden? And what would be the odds of plant getting infected with a virus? My friend was a smoker and constantly topped and side trimmed his plants with finger nails and so did I.

Now a few years back I started a breeding program where I backcrossed to the mother plant I think 13 times. I would grow out some of the females once in a while and every single one would end up showing the viral symptoms. I had whiteflies and fungas gnats at that time which would have spread the virus, also seeds and pollen can transmit the virus.

And a year and a half after getting rid of the '84 clone I have a Strawberry Medley plant from seed that has the exact same symptoms as the clone had for all those years. There is no doubt it is the same.

So now tell what is more likely, a plant suddenly mutates after 8 years or that it gets infected by a virus? And another plant not related in anyway (Strawberry Medley plant from seed) gets the exact same mutation as the 84 clone? Viruses are not uncommon and that is what is much more likely.

And the pictures that you showed look just like a virus, so what proof do you have that they are a mutation? Tell me which is more common, plant viruses or a mutation that looks exactly like a virus?

One last thing, I was able to get 2 1/4 lbs off of one light with the infected plant. So I agree that no one should panic and throw out their plants.

OK, well several years ago you had a plant that all of a sudden picked up something that made it deform for whatever reason. It is very likely a mother plant could pick up a virus of some sort, but it is very unlikely. Far more likely it gets attacked by some sort of fungus.
Now, whatever you saw in this mom you saw come into another plant you had. Same look, same thing...or at least that what I take from what you have told us. It was an assumption you made, back however many years ago, that your first plant caught a virus, and eventually passed it on to another plant you had.

I can buy your assuming this was the case. But maybe it wasn't the case? It seems to me that when you see a mutation you automatically assume a viral attack. But there are things that can cause plants to deform and mutate that are not associated with viral or fungal attacks.

I will go into my theory on mutations and such in a bit, but first I want to put to rest your suspicion that I may have plants being effected by a virus. My "proof" as it were...
I know the f13 line. As I stated before, I grew and flowered a mutant F1 right out of the DJ pack. There is plenty of evidence of other folks finding very scrawny, low yielding mutated phenotypes in the f1 offerings, so it is not just some fluke thing I happened onto.
I couple years ago I kept an f13 that showed no mutation, or at least it does not have deformed leaves and scragly growth. It has some other very special qualities so it was chosen as my keep. I opted not to do anything but smoke the mutant plant because I didn't really want to pass on any of what I saw from that plant.

...thing is, the plant I did choose passes mutation on down the like in dominant AA fashion. A very high percentage of her progeny will carry the very same mutation. And you will find with very little search effort at all reports of others seeing exactly what I see in the progeny of f13.
Let's just see a few for shits sake....

This seedling f13 cross shows the classic "half leaf" mutation that is often seen in DJ Shorts lines. He has written about this very thing on several occasions.

The mutation can manifest to differing degrees...

Some don't show the mutation at all, and grow out beautifully as seen in these two full sibs to all the above plants...

There are those following this thread that are familiar with mutations, and they know as I do that it has nothing to do with viral attacks. They can show you exactly what I am showing you as far as mutations and variegation goes.

Which brings me back to my theories on the whole thing...
The mutation seen in the f13 and her crosses is from severe inbreeding. It can, and will, happen in other strains and hybrids as well if the line suffers inbreeding depression.
Many of us have the feeling that this mutation is a genetic thing, and it surely is. But, I am thinking that the mechanisms allowing these deformities to take place are outside of the actual chromosome, and is more a hormonal reactionary response.
My first clue to this thinking is what I see when plants reveg.
A very similar skewing and deforming of leaves takes place when a plant is transitioning from the flower state to the vegetation state.
This deformation is undoubtedly a hormonal mechanism.
Now, it seems to me that each and every plant has the ability to reveg, except for a select few that simply just die. Even when given identical circumstances and conditions as a sibling, some just won't reveg and they die. Perhaps these few no-reveg plants don't have enough of the hormone that does this magic, who knows.
But, it seems to me that most every plant carries this.

Now, consider a plant being inbred. This can sometimes cause traits to surface that the breeder really doesn't want. Many times something that keeps coming around in a cross is not wanted, but there may be another trait that shows exceptional in the ones that also carry the unwanted trait. Sometimes less than desirable gets carried down the line inadvertently.
Now, suppose this undesirable trait would be a very heavy amount of the hormone that it uses on itself at reveg time? Perhaps when we see a plant that passes on severely deformed leaves, it is because it is carrying the "reveg hormone" in dominance and it now displays for no apparent reason, or perhaps the reason is a reaction to a stress of some sort? Just a grow medium change could possibly trigger a reaction from a plant if it is just hiding under the surface.

This thing isn't exclusive to any particular lines, other than maybe ones that are severely inbred. And when you saw the same thing in a different plant, it may well have said to you that it had the same virus as your first plant...but it was more likely that the second plant was also showing a deleterious mutation from inbreeding.

Consider this...you are seeing something that you think looks like a virus, when it is clear that what you are seeing is not a virus at all.
I don't think the decades old anecdote of your experiences are any reason to alarm others into thinking they have a viral attack.

 

[BlueGrassToker]

lol...Biggs, in all honesty I would maybe watch my nutes and feed water more closely. It looks like that may be the result of a "hot" drip. Certainly no cause for viral alarm.

 

[Greyskull]

Mosaic Virus in Cannabis pics

I had a room full of green and healthy happy plants. No signs of nothing wrong. But i wanted more genetic diversity.
So i brought in some chem d larry og hellsangels og and sfv og - the clones all showed signs of the trait - with the funky curl and color splotches...
Soon i started seeing that curly trait on my other plants that hadnt shown it before.
It may not be tobbacco mosiac virus but its a virus of some sort im sure. Bugs dont trasmit mutations. And i think we can agree theres no such thing as a good virus, yeah?

A lot of the pics posted with claims of virus on fresh seedlings i dont 'buy' as viral infection though they could be but probably just retarded/sensative individuals... But theres some familiar things ive seen/experienced that folks have posted up... Like venturahwy for example...

clones dont mutate they get sick imo

Im no scientist/botamist though im just a guy who spends time w his plants...