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monosilicic acid

Hammerhead

Disabled Farmer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
what you’re saying makes zero sense. The % of the ingredients is in correlation with how much you dilute it. It has everything to do with water weight. You’re not comprehending what is being said. the post is about MSA. What is important to a grower as far as money goes is how many gallons or liters you can treat per dollar. If you can treat 500 gallons for $100 with 1 product but you can only treat 250 gallons for $100 with another product makes a BIG difference… now agsil 16h is fine to use but that’s not MSA which again was the subject of the post. That’s potassium silicate and I’m pretty sure you haven’t ran any side by side tests of agsil vs MSA if you had then you would notice a difference. Well atleast that’s my experience. But both work for sure. Honestly even cheaper would be wollastonite mixed in your medium. But once again the subject of this post is MSA. And if we are talking MSA the % vs the price makes a difference. I gave this example earlier but let me give it to you again in simple terms. Would you rather spend $80 to treat 750 gallons or spend $60 to treat 850 gallons? I’m sure you’d pick the second option and that’s all I was stating. Grow genius you can treat more water for the money than the other MSA products I’ve seen on the market. If you know of a better one please do share?
Alchemist stout MSA recommended dose: 5ml per gallon.
Grow genius MSA recommended dose .12ml per gallon.
Do you not see this huge difference in dilution based off the % in the product???
What my point is the OP asked about MSA so I am explaining the best value on the market for MSA. So you’re talking about agsil 16h which is good but again my posts are specifically answering the question that this post is about. Out of the MSA products on the market I was telling the one you can treat the most gallons per dollar with. And again If you’re not using MSA I’d recommend following dr Bruce bugbee who uses vermiculite instead of perlite and also wollastonite for silica. I believe he adds 1 gram per gallon of medium of wollastonite mixed in before planting and his studies show it will be available for the entire grow. Add it once and you’re good in silica. Go check his videos on YouTube. But if you’re going with MSA then grow genius is the best bang for your buck.
LOL, I don't use either product. Some people are just stubborn and refuse to read what's clearly posted. None of my posts disagreed in any way, you think they do lol. You are reading something I'm not posting. I can't say it any other way. You do you champ.
 
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G.O. Joe

Well-known member
Veteran
You don't need to use monosilicic acid to add a good source of Silica. Agsil16H is good enough for our needs.

Any potassium silicate in solution at the recommended concentration of 100 ppm SiO2 is monosilicic acid as soon as it's neutralized with acid.

It feels like I'm the only one who wonders if smoking plants covered with tiny silica particles is really a good idea.
 

goingrey

Well-known member
Any potassium silicate in solution at the recommended concentration of 100 ppm SiO2 is monosilicic acid as soon as it's neutralized with acid.

It feels like I'm the only one who wonders if smoking plants covered with tiny silica particles is really a good idea.
Does it burn or stay in the ash?
 

G.O. Joe

Well-known member
Veteran
It should not easily melt, and if you're drawing air through a disintegrating filter of unburned material, some particles especially surface particles are going to be sucked along the stream, and it would not really be a surprise if such particles could be detected coming through a bong. (pipes would be worrisome if the form of silica is a hazardous one, crystalline SiO2 is the bad guy these days but you never know until it's actually tested)
 
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Gooseman23

Active member
Any potassium silicate in solution at the recommended concentration of 100 ppm SiO2 is monosilicic acid as soon as it's neutralized with acid.

It feels like I'm the only one who wonders if smoking plants covered with tiny silica particles is really a good idea.
Silica is not a bad idea at all. Plenty of literature on the benefits of silica. It actually helps the plants to not take up toxic metals. And actually according to Bruce bugbee your trichome stalks are made of alotta silica.
 

Gooseman23

Active member
And the truth is there isn’t enough literature to prove or disprove MSA is better or worse than potassium silicate. So the best thing to do is to run side by side in your own setup and see how ir works and do what’s best for you. But don’t tell people it’s the same if you haven’t done the tests or haven’t seen the studies proving or disproving. That’s your opinion. But make that clear. It’s just an opinion.
 

Dr.Mantis

Active member
Silica is not a bad idea at all. Plenty of literature on the benefits of silica. It actually helps the plants to not take up toxic metals. And actually according to Bruce bugbee your trichome stalks are made of alotta silica.
I think Joe was suggesting smoking silica ( in the form of atomized silica as the plant combusts) could be potentially dangerous for the user. Insoluble silica, while non toxic, can cause chronic problems if it makes its way to the lungs of people.
 

Gooseman23

Active member
I think Joe was suggesting smoking silica ( in the form of atomized silica as the plant combusts) could be potentially dangerous for the user. Insoluble silica, while non toxic, can cause chronic problems if it makes its way to the lungs of people.
But how would that happen? Maybe if you do foliar silica in late flower… I’d hope nobody would spray their buds with silica… or that would be a bad idea
 

G.O. Joe

Well-known member
Veteran
And actually according to Bruce bugbee your trichome stalks are made of alotta silica.

That's calcium carbonate and oxalate - cannabis would contain massive amounts of Si otherwise, instead of the Ca it has. Bugbee isn't a Jesus of pot botany he's just recycling very old news talking about wollastonite, maybe he has videos but he sure didn't discover anything.
 

Dr.Mantis

Active member
But how would that happen? Maybe if you do foliar silica in late flower… I’d hope nobody would spray their buds with silica… or that would be a bad idea
I don’t know conclusively about Cannabis species, but many plants assimilate silica in there cell walls. So, as the plant combusts the organic vaporize and you are left with silica residue in the ash, and potentially the smoke.

Again, I haven’t red any peer reviewed articles on this in regards to cannabis. It may be insignificant, but I will look into it more. Agreed that spraying silica late in flower is a bad idea, if it’s intended for combustion.
 

greyfader

Well-known member
diatomaceous earth is an amorphous, non-crystalline, form of plant available silicate.

i am mixing it into the top of the medium in a recirculating ppk system.

i never spray the aerial portions of the plant with it.

i have tried most products mentioned here and i believe DE is just as effective for a lot less money.
 

Gooseman23

Active member
That's calcium carbonate and oxalate - cannabis would contain massive amounts of Si otherwise, instead of the Ca it has. Bugbee isn't a Jesus of pot botany he's just recycling very old news talking about wollastonite, maybe he has videos but he sure didn't discover anything.
I wouldn’t say he is Jesus but I would definitely say his word holds more weight than any random person on a forum. And I never heard him claim to discover wollastonite. He just said he uses and it works. And tells you how he uses it. At the end of the day I’m all for running a side by side and testing things for yourself. take in the wealth of info in the internet but you need to test yourself as we all have many different variables and what works in 1 setup may not work the same in another.
 

Gooseman23

Active member
yes idk honestly, I suggest stopping silica by day 28 as the structure is already set by then… but that’s just me tho. I have ran it all the at through (doing only root French no foliar) and ended up with unnecessarily hard buds… like hard in a bad way.
 

Tomatoesonly

Active member
yes idk honestly, I suggest stopping silica by day 28 as the structure is already set by then… but that’s just me tho. I have ran it all the at through (doing only root French no foliar) and ended up with unnecessarily hard buds… like hard in a bad way.
What's interesting about all that, is that Harley Smith talks about how calcium is the real champ at cell building and strength of the cells. It makes me wonder how the combo of silica and calcium would be a one two punch of cell strength.
 

ramse

Active member
I use siliforce from agro-solutions, aptus is the same company but with a hobbyist target. It costs a third (however still very expensive, 130€ / Litre) and I can easily find it in agricultural products shops. There are several versions, formulated with various blends of trace elements. I use Siliforce (SiOH 2.5% Ca 8% + B 0.1%)
 

Gooseman23

Active member
What's interesting about all that, is that Harley Smith talks about how calcium is the real champ at cell building and strength of the cells. It makes me wonder how the combo of silica and calcium would be a one two punch of cell strength.
Oh yea for sure. I follow how bill farthing says to add more calcium transition. Well I did before I switched nutes. Calcium is essential. Silica is not but it does help. So I make sure to give plenty calcium (140 ppm) and also add silica. I’ve used silica blast botanicare for a long time. And used agsil 16h. Right now using grow genius MSA. They all work, but I do like what I’m seeing with the MSA. So had some kerosene krash from Dutch passion. A cut I’ve ran many times in the same setup so when I’m switching products I can tell what it does or doesn’t do. Without silica this cut gets floppy as soon as buds start getting weight. Nice buds always but she just has weak branches for me. With silica blast they don’t get floppy until much later when the buds have some real weight. With MSA I think they are going to make it to harvest without needing support. They haven’t needed it yet but still a few weeks to go. (Week 7 but usually they are floppy by now it’s a 9 week cut) But this wouldn’t be a definitive test because I also switched nutes on this run. But without silica vs silica blast that test was legit. Everything was the same except the silica. So for me I always use silica but now just trying out the MSA and seems good so far.
 

Dr.Mantis

Active member
Oh yea for sure. I follow how bill farthing says to add more calcium transition. Well I did before I switched nutes. Calcium is essential. Silica is not but it does help. So I make sure to give plenty calcium (140 ppm) and also add silica. I’ve used silica blast botanicare for a long time. And used agsil 16h. Right now using grow genius MSA. They all work, but I do like what I’m seeing with the MSA. So had some kerosene krash from Dutch passion. A cut I’ve ran many times in the same setup so when I’m switching products I can tell what it does or doesn’t do. Without silica this cut gets floppy as soon as buds start getting weight. Nice buds always but she just has weak branches for me. With silica blast they don’t get floppy until much later when the buds have some real weight. With MSA I think they are going to make it to harvest without needing support. They haven’t needed it yet but still a few weeks to go. (Week 7 but usually they are floppy by now it’s a 9 week cut) But this wouldn’t be a definitive test because I also switched nutes on this run. But without silica vs silica blast that test was legit. Everything was the same except the silica. So for me I always use silica but now just trying out the MSA and seems good so far.
Funny you should mention kk, that was my last grow. How do you like it? Mine wasn’t gassy or keroseney at all, but smells nice now. I also noticed it was very floppy. I probably should have added more silica in veg. Nice smoke tho
0933BDCB-6B4D-4EBC-A1DB-80F630398081.jpeg
 

Gooseman23

Active member
Funny you should mention kk, that was my last grow. How do you like it? Mine wasn’t gassy or keroseney at all, but smells nice now. I also noticed it was very floppy. I probably should have added more silica in veg. Nice smoke tho View attachment 18816813
Yea I just had a 3 pack and the keeper wasn’t really like the description. They said it didn’t stretch much and that was a lie… she does have some gas on her. It really comes through in organic. Not so much without it tho. And yea the silica really helps her out. But I like her. She is just stretchy with weak limbs. I’m not running her right now but still have a cut I’ll probably run her again next run. I also over did the silica blast with her on 1 run and she held up better but the nuggets came out super hard. In a bad way. Literally had to tear them apart and now that I think of it the taste was a little off that run too. Tht taste could have been from too much silica or it also coulda been me not flushing good too. Idk really. But that’s how I learned to cut silica by day 28.
 
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