Mk IV A Phoenix Terpenator

[Roji]

Doesn't sound like it would be very practical for large production. Whould you have to have several chilled tanks?

Yes. I'm ordering several more tanks.

This isn't an ideal setup by any means. It's more of making due with my available resources.

The post above mentions T'ing the hot vapor up to top of column. Another great idea I'll add to this.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Yes. I'm ordering several more tanks.

This isn't an ideal setup by any means. It's more of making due with my available resources.

The post above mentions T'ing the hot vapor up to top of column. Another great idea I'll add to this.

We have gone a different direction, but this technique should work, and if I was going to use it, I would tee into the vapor port of the supply tank, so that the butane is forced up through the dip tube of the supply tank and subsequently the column.

 

[Roji]

We have gone a different direction, but this technique should work, and if I was going to use it, I would tee into the vapor port of the supply tank, so that the butane is forced up through the dip tube of the supply tank and subsequently the column.

I'm having trouble picturing what you mean GW. Would you mind explaining a bit more?

Yesterday I ran a little differently. I joined the liquid line of my nearly empty 50# recovery tank(RT) to the vapor line of my -20f full #30lb supply tank(ST) which was wrapped in insulation. I allowed the liquid from the RT to be passed to the frozen ST as it(RT) built up enough pressure from the dual recovery pumps to push the liquid up to the ST. This drops RT pressure.
The heat being passed back to the ST was minimal due to 2 hose rides and CANADA (its cold). The warmest temp I recorded on the bottom of the ST was 10f after several runs.
I would prefer the setup you are working towards with the liquid nitrogen, but for now, this set up is wonderfully surprising the heck out of me.

 

[SkyHighLer]

I think GW's describing the same thing, this is odd to imagine working (not saying it doesn't,) maybe a clear simple diagram is in order.

 

[Chonkski]

I'm having trouble picturing what you mean GW. Would you mind explaining a bit more?

Yesterday I ran a little differently. I joined the liquid line of my nearly empty 50# recovery tank(RT) to the vapor line of my -20f full #30lb supply tank(ST) which was wrapped in insulation. I allowed the liquid from the RT to be passed to the frozen ST as it(RT) built up enough pressure from the dual recovery pumps to push the liquid up to the ST. This drops RT pressure.
The heat being passed back to the ST was minimal due to 2 hose rides and CANADA (its cold). The warmest temp I recorded on the bottom of the ST was 10f after several runs.
I would prefer the setup you are working towards with the liquid nitrogen, but for now, this set up is wonderfully surprising the heck out of me.

Hrmmm, I'm interested.

Have you been logging times and differences?

 

[Gray Wolf]

I'm having trouble picturing what you mean GW. Would you mind explaining a bit more?

Yesterday I ran a little differently. I joined the liquid line of my nearly empty 50# recovery tank(RT) to the vapor line of my -20f full #30lb supply tank(ST) which was wrapped in insulation. I allowed the liquid from the RT to be passed to the frozen ST as it(RT) built up enough pressure from the dual recovery pumps to push the liquid up to the ST. This drops RT pressure.
The heat being passed back to the ST was minimal due to 2 hose rides and CANADA (its cold). The warmest temp I recorded on the bottom of the ST was 10f after several runs.
I would prefer the setup you are working towards with the liquid nitrogen, but for now, this set up is wonderfully surprising the heck out of me.

attached schematic

 

[Pangea]

The power of a simple diagram, clarity. Thanks!

Adding some propane would help increase the pressure if needed as well, correct?

 

[Roji]

Hrmmm, I'm interested.

Have you been logging times and differences?

No. I'm just getting ready to now that I have finished tinkering with the set-up, for now. (I have a 12x12 spool coming from china soon)

The only thing I think this will effect is recovery time due to the depth of the temperatures that have to be corrected in the recovery spool and column. I just got a new bucket heater so it may be negligible.
I have already experienced a huge dewaxing effect in the columns from doing subzero bottom soaking. It was like a 1"x3" cake laying on top of the material in the column.

 

[Gray Wolf]

The power of a simple diagram, clarity. Thanks!

Adding some propane would help increase the pressure if needed as well, correct?

Yes.

Here is a mixture chart.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/propane-butane-mix-d_1043.html

 

[justintime420]

about to be picking up an mkiv i feel late to the party. Does anyone have a list of accessories or upgrades you would highly recommend for this system? havent found too many upgrades for the mkiv as opposed to the mkiii

 

[HighStateToke]

attached schematic

Is anyone using warm vapor assist to run cold butane passively?

Thoughts on that, anyone?

GW, I like your take on this. Never thought of having the warm vapor go through the low pressure tank, great idea.

 

[Rotel]

You basically remove the recovery pump from gw's diagram and you're passive.

 

[Gray Wolf]

about to be picking up an mkiv i feel late to the party. Does anyone have a list of accessories or upgrades you would highly recommend for this system? havent found too many upgrades for the mkiv as opposed to the mkiii

The Mk IVB revision added bi directional flooding, discrete column recovery, and an optional tricore heat exchanger.

The Mk VC version will include a counter flow heat exchanger at the injection port, and a custom water trap/mol sieve drier, both features of which are adaptable to a Mk IV.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Is anyone using warm vapor assist to run cold butane passively?

Thoughts on that, anyone?

GW, I like your take on this. Never thought of having the warm vapor go through the low pressure tank, great idea.

A Terpenator will run passively.

It is more cost effective on smaller systems, with smaller columns, where the butane losses are less upon opening.

A warm butane assist tank should work for extracting passively with chilled butane as well.

 

[NorPene Solutions]

attached schematic

Is the warm high pressure tank only connected by the one vapor line with its liquid line valved off and unconnected?

 

[Chonkski]

The Mk IVB revision added bi directional flooding, discrete column recovery, and an optional tricore heat exchanger.

The Mk VC version will include a counter flow heat exchanger at the injection port, and a custom water trap/mol sieve drier, both features of which are adaptable to a Mk IV.

Are you thinking of keeping the tank at room temperature during operation for the mk VC with the counter flow heat exchanger at injection?

 

[Gray Wolf]

Are you thinking of keeping the tank at room temperature during operation for the mk VC with the counter flow heat exchanger at injection?

I will keep the tank in ice water, to keep recovery speed up and pressure down.

 

[justintime420]

Thank you gw its so awesome working with these versatile systems.

 

[NorPene Solutions]

Hey GW, has anybody by chance set up a parts list and SKU# for the MK IV and MK V with Wenzhou?

 

[Gray Wolf]

Hey GW, has anybody by chance set up a parts list and SKU# for the MK IV and MK V with Wenzhou?

Hee, hee, hee, define Mk IV and Mk V. After I published the design, more than one company came out with their own version from Wenzhou Kingstone parts.

WolfWorks, Inc orders are not by part number, but by specifically spelling out what it is, and providing blue prints for modified parts, and referencing the print number.

IE: 4" X 36" 304SS sanitary spool.

or,

12" sanitary end cap assembly per WW Inc, D000xxx Rev X

A good idea to ask for a picture with the bid to insure that they understand.

Technically and ethically they can't share another customers exact design unless another customer provides prints for the same design, or has permission from Customer A.

Easy for someone to measure a modified part and ask for that and nothing is so complicated that a competent mechanic can't take one look at it and design something similar enough to work.

If you send them a picture, they will also do their best to take care of you as well, so somewhere in there a lot of lines get blurred and you can get pretty much anything you want, "In Wenzhou's Restaurant"................

I've also given Sally permission to allow a brother in Canada, and one in Belgium to order kits from the WW blueprints and parts list, and permission depends on what you want to do with it. The place to ask would be [email protected].

As a side note, nothing is patented, nor can it be now, but I did copyright the Terpenator name.

While I've allowed others to use the name freely generically, and encouraged them to think along the lines of Terpenator standards for design and quality, I will have my intellectual property attorney send anyone a cease and desist letter, who is seriously abusing the name from a design, safety, or customer service standpoint, asking them to create a spiffy new name for their product.