Mineralizing soil

[Harry Palmer]

So I've been reading, and want to try mineralizing my soil. I have accumulated pounds of ground eggshell, (90+% calcium carbonate) and gypsum. Still working on soft rock phosphate and glacial dust.

The key question here is: Can this be added to ANY potting mix? I have a myriad of different mixes from different projects. And more specifically, is it acceptable to top dress, or should it be mixed in thoroughly?

Thank you in advance.

 

[mohammed romney]

i think pro mix is used for the base because it is close to nutrientless.

the minerals are intended to be food for the biology. a base mixture heavy in nutritionally rich organic matter will not support the desired soil dynamics. as far as i know the 6-5-3 mixture is mixed in and cooked.

 

[Photosynthesis]

Buy a bale of peat, some compost, and some perlite, and you have a base mix. Then add in your nutrients as you see fit.

 

[mohammed romney]

nah, no compost.

not "as you see fit" unless you're conducting your own experiment. if you're looking for the mineralized magic there are balances and ratios to respect.

promix also has some mycos and it's pH is around neutral.

 

[Photosynthesis]

nah, no compost.

not "as you see fit" unless you're conducting your own experiment. if you're looking for the mineralized magic there are balances and ratios to respect.

promix also has some mycos and it's pH is around neutral.

No compost? Compost is the entire basis of organic soil. "As you see fit" is entirely correct. As there are a million ways to mix a soil.

It depends on your environment, plant size, container, length of veg, length of flower, etc...

There are no set ratios for reminerilization. We are not growing 15,000 acres of corn.

Everyone I know has a different recipe. Unfortunately most of them use something like promix as their base soil. It's is such a waste of money.

 

[mohammed romney]

" Compost is the entire basis of organic soil." you're mistaken bro. Nothing wrong with compost but it's a wild card. Perhaps if you have the analysis and the analysis matches up with the amendments you might be good to go. But that would require a few expensive tests. Otherwise "as you see fit" is a crap shoot. That's why there are soil tests, precise amendments and foliars and scientific approaches to horticulture/agriculture.

There are no set ratios for reminerilization. maybe not. For re-mineralization there are set ratios that are well known and efficacious.
You're talking out of school bro. Read up on the topic. Check out John Kempf's or John Frank for good information.
Everyone you know might be doing their own thing. That's cool. But free style has nothing to do with expertise.
I know lots of people who are doing the exact same thing (soil wise) and they grow fire pretty much every time.

 

[Photosynthesis]

" Compost is the entire basis of organic soil." you're mistaken bro. Nothing wrong with compost but it's a wild card. Perhaps if you have the analysis and the analysis matches up with the amendments you might be good to go. But that would require a few expensive tests. Otherwise "as you see fit" is a crap shoot. That's why there are soil tests, precise amendments and foliars and scientific approaches to horticulture/agriculture.

There are no set ratios for reminerilization. maybe not. For re-mineralization there are set ratios that are well known and efficacious.
You're talking out of school bro. Read up on the topic. Check out John Kempf's or John Frank for good information.
Everyone you know might be doing their own thing. That's cool. But free style has nothing to do with expertise.
I know lots of people who are doing the exact same thing (soil wise) and they grow fire pretty much every time.

Are you thinking mineralization means whatever the fuck you want? Like i said you're mistaken.

You are more than funny. The internet cracks me up sometimes.

 

[Harry Palmer]

I have to say, ProMix is a real turn-off for me. I have a lot of mixes already, and most of them contain significant humus. Everytime that I've used ProMix in the past, it seems to require constant watering, relatively speaking. I actually haven't bought a peat based mix (or mixed one, myself) for quite some time.

I don't want to get into a pissing contest with anyone, as I'm learning. But is there a proven method to mineralize a coco based mix? I was under the impression that it was a bit more flexible.

I don't make a penny off of my grows, so I'm not likely to pay for a soil test.

So that I'm clear - in your mind, when I'm asking about mineralization - am I asking for something abstract, or something a bit more semantic?

I'm just looking to feed microbes. No science experiments...

 

[Photosynthesis]

I have to say, ProMix is a real turn-off for me. I have a lot of mixes already, and most of them contain significant humus. Everytime that I've used ProMix in the past, it seems to require constant watering, relatively speaking. I actually haven't bought a peat based mix (or mixed one, myself) for quite some time.

I don't want to get into a pissing contest with anyone, as I'm learning. But is there a proven method to mineralize a coco based mix? I was under the impression that it was a bit more flexible.

I don't make a penny off of my grows, so I'm not likely to pay for a soil test.

So that I'm clear - in your mind, when I'm asking about mineralization - am I asking for something abstract, or something a bit more semantic?

I'm just looking to feed microbes. No science experiments...

Growing is the biggest science experiment you will ever be involved in.

I make my soil from scratch, and recycle it for years upon years. My ingredients are as follows:

Peat moss
rice hulls
compost
vermicompost
oyster shell flour
gypsum
azomite
basalt rock dust
bentonite
crab shells
fish meal
high p bat guano
alfalfa meal
neem cake
fish bone meal
kelp meal
granular humic acid
diatomaceous earth
Biochar

Everyone on the interwebs is an expert though. So watch out.

 

[BurnOne]

I don't want to get into a pissing contest with anyone, as I'm learning. But is there a proven method to mineralize a coco based mix? I was under the impression that it was a bit more flexible.
So that I'm clear - in your mind, when I'm asking about mineralization - am I asking for something abstract, or something a bit more semantic?

I'm just looking to feed microbes. No science experiments...

What exactly do you mean by "mineralize"?

Eggshells break down too slowly. If you want to add calcium, the source needs to be a fine powder for a quicker release. It must be mixed in thoroughly with the soil(less) mix. You can use it in coco.

Minerals don't feed the microbes. Organic food does. Food like guano, meals and fish.
You'll also need humates in your mix. Coco has none. Peat does. But even with peat you need compost or worm castings.

You might want to check out some of the STICKY posts at the top of this forum. Lots of great stuff in there. You will be able to get going quicker by reading there IMO because it seems you need a better idea of what is needed for an organic grow.

Let us know if that helps.
Burn1

 

[Harry Palmer]

What exactly do you mean by "mineralize"?

Eggshells break down too slowly. If you want to add calcium, the source needs to be a fine powder for a quicker release. It must be mixed in thoroughly with the soil(less) mix. You can use it in coco.

Minerals don't feed the microbes. Organic food does. Food like guano, meals and fish.
You'll also need humates in your mix. Coco has none. Peat does. But even with peat you need compost or worm castings.

You might want to check out some of the STICKY posts at the top of this forum. Lots of great stuff in there. You will be able to get going quicker by reading there IMO because it seems you need a better idea of what is needed for an organic grow.

Let us know if that helps.
Burn1

Thanks for taking the time.

Let me clarify by saying, I am NOT an organic newbie. That being said, I'm also not at the pinnacle of organic growing knowledge, either. As stated earlier, I am here to learn.

You'll have to forgive me for seeming like I've by-passed the search function. I've never seen a forum with more threads with multiple-hundred pages before. It's overwhelming. And there's a lot of useless stuff in the middle of it all.

Mineralizing seems to be the next step that I'm looking for - but hey, I could be wrong. I don't know what I don't know.

I know there is a lot of debate about eggshells. But in reality, I've found that it doesn't take any longer than lime calcium - I grind them into a 400 mesh powder. I have never had a problem with cal-mag deficiencies or nutrient uptake.

To top it all off, I do a weekly aerated compost tea foliar AND drench, with some other goodies added after it's been brewed. (usually fish and seaweed, but also some aloe, occasionally)

I'd really like to focus in on this topic of "mineralization". Either it's a worthy concept for me, or it isn't. If it revolves around the use of peat and/or ProMix, then yes, I'm moving on. If not, I am looking to know specifically how to tailor it to my particular situation.

Thanks for taking the time. Hope you stick with me, here...

 

[Harry Palmer]

What exactly do you mean by "mineralize"?

I originally came across the concept while researching high brix growing. It involves the mixing of calcium carbonate, soft rock phosphate and gypsum at a rate of 6-5-3, added to a base mix.

This seems to be the point where people who are too lazy or don't want so spend the $ drop out of the high brix method, and call the mineralization, "good enough", or "better than before". I've heard it so many times, I had to check into it.

Plus, I want to keep my soils alive and healthy for as long as humanly possible. Seems reasonable that adding extra minerals would help achieve half of that goal. (if one can keep the soil mix from collapsing)

 

[BurnOne]

As far as I know, Calcium Carbonate and gypsum have no N-P-K numbers. I assume the nitrogen and potassium come from your fish/seaweed.
I'm not sure of the amount of soft rock phosphate to add to your mix. Maybe someone else will chime in and help. I have seen it used and discussed here but I've never tried it.
The microbes (bacteria, microherd, etc.) will thrive as long as they are able to multiply. Food, oxygen and water will see to that as long as you don't poison your grow medium.
Keep us posted on your progress.
Burn1

 

[Harry Palmer]

As far as I know, Calcium Carbonate and gypsum have no N-P-K numbers.

That was never the proposition put forth. The 6-5-3 was the number of parts of each mixed together, respectively to establish the base mineralization. Approximately 1 cup per 2 cu ft. of mix seems to be a general number for what I've seen used.

I assume the nitrogen and potassium come from your fish/seaweed.

Correct. As well as my compost. (at least according to my current grow) I make high quality compost from seaweed and rabbit manure. Technically, it isn't compost, because I run it through worms, first. So I guess it's humus.

 

[rasputin]

Minerals don't feed the microbes.

I think mohammed was pointing out that this was worded poorly. I didn't see the text of his post so I can't say if he addressed it appropriately or not but I can see why he might challenge this point. Why the heavy handed tactics to correct the matter? All around, this thread is a sad commentary on this forum.

Harry, as to your questions - the composition of the potting soil in question should be taken into consideration before adding your mineral mix to it. Generally, you will probably be fine. It's just best to know for sure and a soil test is easy enough to obtain. I would test your base mix before adding any minerals and then amend accordingly.

As for top dressing, if it is highly ground it's no problem but any coarse materials are best globally amended as it is the soil decomposition cycle and oxidation process that will allow them to become plant available. If you choose to top dress, consider adding some additional compost and/or peat on top of the mineral mix. It will help increase break down times as well as help keep the dust down.

 

[Cep]

We can get technical here. There are bacteria that derive energy from minerals (i.e. sulfur reducing species), but for practical purposes the microbes we're dealing with are consuming carbon and nitrogen sources from organic amendments (detritus, molasses, guano, different meals you add to the mix) and are also ideally fed by carbon provided by plants through the roots.

An other big thing in gardening in general is the indiscriminate use of compost. SO many composts are super high in Potassium and people should know how much is in the compost before they use it. Ask your provider for an analysis. If you don't, you risk the base cation percentage for K being too high and your plants will have a hard time getting all the Calcium they want. This is a common problem.

You want something in the ballpark of 5%K, 15%Mg, 70%Ca, 10%H

Promix, Sunshine #4, peat, etc are not devoid of nutrients. Here is an analysis of Sunshine 4 for example:


It's K level is already adequate. People buy things like greensand and kmag to add to their mixes when it's doing only harm.

 

[Harry Palmer]

You want something in the ballpark of 5%K, 15%Mg, 70%Ca, 10%H

So that I'm not misunderstanding what you are specifically referring to here - is this the composition of the aforementioned compost, or to the mix, itself, overall?

What kind of leeway does one get on these percentages?

Thanks for chiming in. I love specifics.

 

[xmobotx]

let's not forget that there is a "albrecht vs rodale"~ish view being debated here. many feel that balancing amendments makes for better results & it's hard to argue w/ that logic. many also know that a little of this & that and good humic inputs make for excellent end results as well.

i don't find the 2 to be in as much of a conflict as some do ~i fall firmly in to the "throw enough compost at it" camp. But, i also find the balancers {brix} are showing more & more a benefit to their approach

maybe if we could make these classifications, we could minimize the arguments? both methods are effective & it's been demonstrated right here on IC

 

[Harry Palmer]

maybe if we could make these classifications, we could minimize the arguments? both methods are effective & it's been demonstrated right here on IC

I'd like to find a method that improves upon my current methods, without plunging me headlong into a new profession. In other words, I want to be able to grow better, without having to grow like my livelihood depends on it. (because it doesn't) I totally understand that there are those who grow as if they are seeking the ultimate of ultimates. I'm not there yet. But progress is the best incentive for me. Let results stoke the passion.

Right now, I have another thread going that illustrates what I am using now, for the most part. It's what I have readily available to me.

High quality compost - I make my own using rabbit manure, seaweed, and sprinkle rock dust in with each batch. I always water it down with kelp extract while it's being processed.

Alfalfa hay
Eggshells. Lots and lots of eggshells
Fish emulsion (hydrolysate)
Kelp extract
EWC - made from the aforementioned compost ingredients
Molasses
Stump Tea
Excelerite

I also have a few versions of soil. I have a lot of Roots Organic 707 and Original. I have also made several mixes. One of my best, at the moment, is a mixture of pine bark, coco peat, earthworm castings, and vermiculite - at a ratio of 10-5-3-2.

There's where I'm at. I have minimal availability locally for many amendments, and I'm too tight-assed to pay shipping on ag products. But I can build the Calcium Carbonate/Soft Rock Phosphate/Gysum recipe, should that be a viable option. For right now, I need to stay away from soil tests, test equipment, and massive investments of any sort. If that eliminates me from any of the methods that have been spoken of, I will totally understand. This is a quest for knowledge.

 

[Granger2]

Diversity. Use multiple sources of dusts, etc. Make sure your microherd is vibrant so they can process/make available faster. One of the best mineral sources I've found is Sea Crop. Concentrated sea water with 95% of the salt [NaCl] removed. Works great added to your ACT. Especially valuble used in a new soil mix because rock dusts take quite a while to become available. Good luck. -granger