MH vs HPS in bloom

[bowzer]

[q uote=Rolldaddy;5443643]Stonefree,

C'mon! Lumiteck have been tried and true the prime balasts for years now. If your going to claim some new no name brand is better, use better support than an add made by that new company.

An another note on amazon they sell lumiteck 600's that can even run 2 hoods at the same time.[/quote]

how is this for support of cheap bulbs??? I use the cheapest bulbs I can find on ebay. I think they were like 32.99.

lighting is 400hps:250mh side by side in 4x5 room.
Im more than happy with these results, buds are solid, smell is outta sight!!!

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

ok three more weeks until we see if the blue bulb or red bulbs made better weed, or a mix of both. so far they all look really good so it's hard to tell.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

also got some Hortilux Eye enhanced spectrum 1000w HPS, for $80 a peice. getting yield increase by about 15 percent over my lumatek bulbs.

 

[the gnome]

Great thread gnome. Where does one buy a 21 dollar bt56 all the ones round here are 35 dollers plus.
Hm

cheapest Ive found... $21.53
http://www.alldaylighting.com/Syl_M1000_BT56_.html

plant lighting has em for $26

 

[shizznit]

IMO, forget opinions, go with science....
The plant sensitivity curve (unless you are a light manufacturer and have it mirror-imaged to suit your ads) shows that a plant can absorb more than twice as much blue light as red.
That doesn't include the fact that blue light a much more powerful wavelength than red, that red doesn't power the correct chlorophyll for growth as much, and that HPS bulbs emit almost no UV light.

Add it all up and MH is a MUCH better choice, the only great things about HPS is the brightness and the efficiency.\
Considering equal lumens on a plant, and much better results will be seen with MH....

 

[nephrosis]

IMO, forget opinions, go with science....
The plant sensitivity curve (unless you are a light manufacturer and have it mirror-imaged to suit your ads) shows that a plant can absorb more than twice as much blue light as red.
That doesn't include the fact that blue light a much more powerful wavelength than red, that red doesn't power the correct chlorophyll for growth as much, and that HPS bulbs emit almost no UV light.

Add it all up and MH is a MUCH better choice, the only great things about HPS is the brightness and the efficiency.\
Considering equal lumens on a plant, and much better results will be seen with MH....

Agreed

 

[sprinkl]

IMO, forget opinions, go with science....
The plant sensitivity curve (unless you are a light manufacturer and have it mirror-imaged to suit your ads) shows that a plant can absorb more than twice as much blue light as red.
That doesn't include the fact that blue light a much more powerful wavelength than red, that red doesn't power the correct chlorophyll for growth as much, and that HPS bulbs emit almost no UV light.

Add it all up and MH is a MUCH better choice, the only great things about HPS is the brightness and the efficiency.\
Considering equal lumens on a plant, and much better results will be seen with MH....

If you could back that up with some nice pics of that curve?
Always looking to get more efficiency out of a watt. I use the greenpower from philips which has more blue in it.
I believe difference between lamps can be as big as difference between "MH" and "HPS", no?
As the Dutch are some of the most efficient people(cough*cheapass*cough) on the planet I tend to think that if there was more yield to be had from a MH they would all be using that...

 

[legalizeDK]

hi
ive been following the thread. and desided to read up on light and such. but im getting conflicting info, some places state that red light is responsible for activating chlorofyl and blue light regulate growth and visa versa.
any one gotany good reads to share
'
legal dk

 

[the gnome]

IMO, forget opinions, go with science....
The plant sensitivity curve (unless you are a light manufacturer and have it mirror-imaged to suit your ads) shows that a plant can absorb more than twice as much blue light as red.
That doesn't include the fact that blue light a much more powerful wavelength than red, that red doesn't power the correct chlorophyll for growth as much, and that HPS bulbs emit almost no UV light.

Add it all up and MH is a MUCH better choice, the only great things about HPS is the brightness and the efficiency.\
Considering equal lumens on a plant, and much better results will be seen with MH....

good post shizzznit,
that seems goes along with what was posted very early in this thread by Drshio, Ive reposted it several times but its worth another.
btw,
do you have a link to what you posted on your science/plant curve

Check out Sunmaster Warm Deluxe (3000k MH) or the Sunpulse 3k. You get the best of both worlds IMO. I use a mix of Warm Deluxes and Cool Deluxes.

I believe the use of HPS stems from outdated lore. People started using them when indoor growing first started because they had the highest output of any bulb available, in the best spectrum (metal halides were junk). The metal halide technology has progressed considerably since then and has far surpassed the HPS.

People think that stretch happens during flower because they switch their plants from MH to HPS and their plants freak out because the HPS lacks so much spectrum. What the plants are really doing is trying to find the light (even though HPS provides a lot of light, it is not in the right spectrum the plant wants).

But here is the reality:

Each plant is bred a certain way and has genetic predispositions. Therefore the light the plant wants will highly depend on its breeder and genetics. If the breeder selected for largest yield using only HPS, then the plant will likely do best in all HPS. This is the same for fertiization - if the breeder selected for which plant thrived most using synthetics, it will perform best with synthetics - if the breeder used organics, it will perform best with organics.

EDIT: Also, I think that dual-arc bulbs are a sham - you only get a 600W HPS and a 400W MH in a bulb - now place that at 1000W distance (due to 1000W heat) and the light hitting the plants is WEAK. Its like using a 400W MH next to a 600W HPS 18-24in from the plant, not okay.

 

[!PeAcE!]

uhhh silly question but why not use both?? I use hortilux HPS and MH (10kelvin and a 6.5kelvin) and by golly you get the best of both worlds...saves one from having to say woulda coulda shoulda..

 

[the gnome]

read this thread and you should be able to answer your Q

 

[!PeAcE!]

read this thread and you should be able to answer your Q

It was more sarcasm than a question. I was being direct. people should be using both is what I was implying just to clarify.

 

[TGT]

I feel it is strain related with most plants producing better with HPS (not by much) because most breeders selected using HPS. I have noticed some plants, such as my Purple Kush do better with MH, but most my strains flourish with HPS. Just my hypothesis based on the strains I own and personal experience. I am not saying I am 100 percent correct as I have not done even close to enough strains over the years or focused enough on the subject to make an accurate scientific observation, but this is what I feel from growing a dozen or so strains under both. Also, I have not used every type of HPS vs MH, so take it with a grain of salt.

TGT

 

[shizznit]

....

 

[shizznit]

also

 

[shizznit]

and

 

[the gnome]

I feel it is strain related Just my hypothesis based on the strains I own and personal experience. I am not saying I am 100 percent correct as I have not done even close to enough strains over the years or focused enough on the subject to make an accurate scientific observation, but this is what I feel from growing a dozen or so strains under both. Also, I have not used every type of HPS vs MH, so take it with a grain of salt.

TGT

your right on target TGT, and I am convinced its genetics that determine which do do better under what bulb,
that has been discussed through out the thread, peeps have said some didnt do as well under MH as hps and vice-versa
I'm a firm believer its genetics that control everything about the plant.
and we can tweak things this way and that way.

also some plants can be bred to adapt better to one thing or the other too.
when you look at it like that it begs the Question then....
before the indoor scene went full steam were plants growing better under MH? or have the plants that respond
well to HPS now, were they bred that way?
this has been on my mind since about 1/2 way through this thread.


personally I would prefer to use only Mh, easier and cheaper imo.
and again, my secret recipe that got me to get this thread going did well under HPS, but under Mh it made hps look pitiful, weight wise and density of the buds

 

[!PeAcE!]

I like the idea that plants can be bred to respond better if chosen under one spectrumm of light BUT thats all it is, just a good thought, not reality....why not breed under both and pick the heavy weight under full spectrum light...because whether bred or not under hps only OR mh only the leafs are not going to forget the ancestors who know what a taste of sun was like no matter how many times you breed...why sell yourself short, yes MH bulbs can be found cheap but then again the serious Hortilux Mh bulbs are well over 200 Euros, HPS can be found cheap too but the quality ones are 100 Euros...use both...period, IMO Dont sell your PLANTS short. look at the compact CFL growers on this thread, since it is financially feasible to obtain 2300k, 4500k and 6500k even 10000k (last two weeks of flowering) all for under 50 bucks, Im just saying that concept should always be implemented no matter if its a micro grow or a warehouse grow. Cover your 6 and your bud will prevail.

 

[shizznit]

I like the idea that plants can be bred to respond better if chosen under one spectrumm of light BUT thats all it is, just a good thought, not reality....why not breed under both and pick the heavy weight under full spectrum light...because whether bred or not under hps only OR mh only the leafs are not going to forget the ancestors who know what a taste of sun was like no matter how many times you breed...why sell yourself short, yes MH bulbs can be found cheap but then again the serious Hortilux Mh bulbs are well over 200 Euros, HPS can be found cheap too but the quality ones are 100 Euros...use both...period, IMO Dont sell your PLANTS short. look at the compact CFL growers on this thread, since it is financially feasible to obtain 2300k, 4500k and 6500k even 10000k (last two weeks of flowering) all for under 50 bucks, Im just saying that concept should always be implemented no matter if its a micro grow or a warehouse grow. Cover your 6 and your bud will prevail.

I agree....
It's too bad that in today's 'good enough' world more don't care, Sunpulse makes such a system. When questioned about his spinning sunsystem (Is the spinning safe?), Gerald Garrison even says things like 'who cares about you, this is for plants'....
He doesn't mean that seriously, he suggests that you stop the spinning when in the area, but he is a no-comprimise kind of guy, check out their science on plant growth lights, not parking-lot lights, or gymnasium lights....

http://sunpulselamps.com/uploads/hps_vs_sp_white_sheet.pdf

SunPulse Lamps are specially formulated for plants and living things and are designed for use on certified​

electronic and digital electronic HID ballasts. High frequency HID electronic ballasts (22 kHz+), are very​

different than the traditional 60 Hz magnetic ballasts that have been in horticulture for over 30 years. High
frequency ballasts need high frequency lamps. Using a 60 Hz lamp on a 22 kHz or higher electronic ballast
will result in the premature failure of that lamp. High frequency acoustic and magnetic resonances cause 60
Hz part failures in the lamps, and a major 60 Hz lamp manufacturer has stated for the record that their​

lamps & others cannot be used on electronic ballasts and perform properly.​

HPS​

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Light (pictured below left) is missing spectral information in the left portion of the graph, which the​

Sun would normally provide. You can also see the wide, bandwidth narrowed peaks of the HPS graph
which represent the reds and oranges we see in the sodium lamps. These peaks don’t exist in nature and​

extreme light saturation clips the photo-receptors of the leaf, shutting it down in a process called photoinhibition.
HPS is proven inefficient for living things.​

SunPulse Lamps​

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, (pictured below right), show a spectral graph that has “wave form linearity”, or a​

shape that is more like the Sun’s graph as it hits the Earth. The Sun provides all the colors, all the time,
that’s evolution. The Sun is high frequency, full spectrum light, and that’s what Sun Pulse provides​

digitally, light more like the Sun.

 

[shizznit]

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