Merkel says German multi-cultural society has failed

[Baba Ku]

You can discuss birds all you want, but if you refuse to take a look at the feathers you are missing a very important feature of them. In fact, they would not be what they are without feathers.

To think that there is not a religious component to ALL of this is simply people being ignorant to facts. And I am not arguing anything at all. I am simply pointing out that some of the arguments made here are moot if all components of the issue are not being considered.

I have not stated that I think Islam is good, bad, or indifferent...although many here seem to think that the religious affiliation of the people is of mere consequence, and not really something that effects the issue. They would be mistaken, and quite possibly have no real education or understanding of the tenants of Islam and sharia law.
A person who actually has all the information, and not just the bits they pick up on discussion boards and media blogs, will clearly see the other components of this whole thing that bring it more into perspective.

*you asking about my avatar...perhaps you should look into the distinctions between the Sufi and oh say...a devote Islamist.

 

[LonelyNerd]

Why do you have mevleviyye on your avatar?

 

[Kubarkid]

Sufism is the heart of Islam.
Unfortunately, it's a result of the Islamic community that promotes the crazy ideas, and not the true teachings. Maybe you should read a little about Fethullah Gulen, the oh say "sufi" leading one of the largest jihad movements in the world.

It goes the same for all religions, what the heart of it teaches and what the community chooses to create out of it is what makes the religion.

I am aware there are religious undertones in Germany's situation, and it's unfortunate that it has to be that way. It's obvious that you can't mix these people, and especially try to christianize muslims. So now all they can do is just bitch about it. Sucks to be a right-wing christian in Germany, really.

 

[ibjamming]

Thanks Ill clear your confusion. No fuck the langauge, why is it some superior above grade langauge ? no. Are soldiers and civilians going to Afghanistan/Iraq forced to read and write Arabic? no. Its just the governments way to censor everybody. Your country is part of a global world which means whether you like it or not, other people can share that space. It doesn't matter if they pray to allah 5 times a day or they cant speak German, they can do what they please on 'your' land just as you have done on their land. In economic recession times you fail to forget, these minimum wage earning immigrants boost our economies because we ordinarily can't compete anymore. Our government people actions are why those immigrants are there in the first place. It means that a non English speaker is more skilled than you are. Like Gyspsy said, all this nationalism is doing is heading for more war.

Actually...they ARE...and they're also REQUIRED to NOT do a whole lot of shit that is NORMAL for us. No ALCOHOL...not a drop is allowed by OUR soldiers. The Sport Illustrated swim suit addition is BANNED in most Islamic nations. ALL women, including our women soldiers MUST be covered in Islamic nations. So you're really quite ignorant in that area...more posting what you THINK is true?

They can come and VISIT...then they can go home. You're saying we MUST open everything up to everyone? How about your house? You willing to take in a few borders? Why is my country any different?

No, they can't, and neither can I. Go to an Islamic country and act all badass...like you are here...I can do ANYTHING! Yup, and so can they...they'll cut your head off... Yup, that's how they take care of problems over there. There are beheadings almost monthly.

Don't think so buddy, you may be for globalization but that stands for EVERYTHING I am against. This is no "great example of why we need globalization", it's a great example of a country who realizes the hard to accept truth...the USA 'squabbles' on a daily basis because of cultural issues...the Hijab in the workplace, muslims demanding the right to stop working 5 times a day to pray...or whatever other cultural conflict that is raised at that time....the USA is a country that accepts 'all' religions but on the other hand harbors financial terrorists and promotes sex, porn and debauchery at every turn...methinks having certain cultures contained to certain areas might produce a better result than what we have now.

again, the 'melting pot' idea is good theoretically, but when in action and put in place you have what you have today. unless you see the results of a non multi-cultural society, you can't say which is better. and no, i don't support genocide.

The "melting pot" was ALL Europeans and it was EXPECTED that that trend would continue. It wasn't until after the 60's that others started coming in in large numbers.

Why? That's the beauty of today, different cultures, different food, different people in each country and each one has its charm.

I don't want every country to be like America (no offense) MCdonals is kinda the national dish and an american looks like what?
sustaining a culture is a must, culture is a beautiful thing,

Btw this is why products are introduced to the american market first, if it's succesful, it will be in the rest of the world, cause america consists of people from all over the world, you got china town, italian town you name it

That IS the beauty of it! How boring to blend everything together. And, I don't LIKE what a lot of cultures find acceptable.

So your idea would to have the Muslims, the Jews, the Mormons, the Mexicans, the Puerto Ricans, the Italians, ....the Irish, the Jamaicans...the Farsi's e.t.c...e.t.c. all 'CONTAINED' to certain areas?.....lol...

....maybe you would give them all their own state and so even more fractionalize society.....

...within a generation or two most all ethnic groups become assimilated to some degree or other......unless maybe you are talking about The Amish.....and they don't really want to be, they just want to live a simple life I suppose......

...The whole planet is multi-cultural....due to travel and the necessity of people needing work you are not gonna be able to lock people out from anywhere on the planet out of what you call YOUR country....)

If I want to go somewhere on this world.....I'll bloody well go there, and even if I don't speak the language or hit the prayer mat 5 times a day or go to some church on a sunday, that's not going to stop me......

Not contained...but "like minded" people should live together. I'm sure if given the choice, you too hang out with like minded people. I can't imagine your best friend is a pedophile or a cold blooded murderer...or hates Cannabis...

But that's NOT happening with some groups...they're NOT assimilating. It's been 150 years in the states...are blacks assimilated? No. It's been multiple generation of Mexicans...are they assimilated? No. It's not happening because the immigrants aren't coming for the same reasons these days.

You don't "lock people out"...but you don't let them come in and make small versions of their "home" country.

You CAN travel...but if you decide to live here or there PERMANENTLY...then you MUST "become" one of them. You learn the language, and you follow the new countries customs.

So, you think folks simply fear that Islam is growing in power? Could there possibly be anything else to fear from Islam? I mean, xenophobia is only concerned with the fear of a person because they are foreign to the land. Is that all you think is happening, people fearing Islam just because it is growing?

The secular amongst us need to do some real reading...not Niche or Marx, try reading the Koran if you want some real insight into what and why the Islamic nation does anything. Doing so will bring a whole new context to the arguments made here.
Then for some comparisons, read the christian Bible.
But wait...that just isn't going to happen is it? None here are going to read either one, are they? Of course not. We will continue to bloviate and not really have much of a clue as to what we are talking about. Always talking in wild platitudes and throwing out speculative bullshit, and never really touching on the TRUE issue behind every bit of this.

The Mexican deal in the US is NOTHING at all like the issue with Islamic immigration in Europe.

Start here... www.thereligionofpeace.com go down to "terrorist acts in the last 3 months" see how "peaceful" it is.

People fear Islam because of it's history. In less than 100 years it went from Medina/Mecca all the way into Spain and France. The Crusades are villified but they were simply the Christians taking back lands that Islam had taken by force. I don't know how muslims are so successful at twisting history to their benefit.

I read the Koran...right after 9-11 because I wanted to know PERSONALLY...not through the words of some liar with an agenda...what it REALLY says. It IS full of hate and killing...it's like the Old Testament... Unless you KNOW what the people believe, what they're being taught, you CANNOT make an informed opinion. I've also spent time...several months in an Islamic country...have you? Muslims really DO feel they are superior to you, that they have the "inside info" on God...you ARE just a lowly heathen.

This needs to be repeated over and over again because some of the people here actually have the audacity to think that immigrants and "their failure to assimilate" is the problem. In the article, the problem is as clear as day. The problem are the politicians and the businesses and benefit from cheap immigrant labor.

Politicians and businesses want to import and hire immigrants that do know how speak the native language to work for cheap wages and they do not want to hire native residents. Why can't some of you understand this? If you don't like immigrants coming into your country to work, then educate yourself and stop supporting politicians like Merkel and the companies that hire them.

Did Stormfront happen to shut down their stoner section? Why are some members reducing themselves to their base fears and xenophobic paranoia of people of different cultures? I thought all members of ICMag would be smart enough to see right through this article to figure out what's really going on. This article has nothing to do with multiculturism, immigrants, etc. It's all about pure greed from business that hire cheap labor and the politicians that pander to stay in power.

Huh? If I show up at your door...you're OBLIGATED to take care of me? That's what you're saying...when they show up at the border...we MUST take them in and take care of them...right? NO!

Maybe we should MAKE our own kids do those "jobs that nobody wants to do"? No, our kids are at home in front of the TV or driving around in the car you bought them. Our kids are spoiled rotten. They should be cleaning the toilets.

Wait...she want's them gone...and you're saying that business wants them here? Government and business are the SAME...the same people run both, they switch back and forth between the two.

I think you're confused...the German PEOPLE want these changes...

To me, the bottom line is...if you move to MY country...you're going to play by OUR rules...not the ones back home.

 

[Baba Ku]

It goes the same for all religions, what the heart of it teaches...

bingo

 

[elmanito]

Sufism is the heart of Islam.
Unfortunately, it's a result of the Islamic community that promotes the crazy ideas, and not the true teachings.

It's indeed a big difference between the spiritual site of Islam (Sufism) and the more orthodox site of Islam with their 5 times a day to pray and their sharia law which you already have in the UK among the orthodox muslims.A lot of muslims don't know anything about Sufism and they are even forbidden to read something about it and that's a pity.

Namaste

 

[LonelyNerd]

Actually...they ARE...and they're also REQUIRED to NOT do a whole lot of shit that is NORMAL for us. No ALCOHOL...not a drop is allowed by OUR soldiers. The Sport Illustrated swim suit addition is BANNED in most Islamic nations. ALL women, including our women soldiers MUST be covered in Islamic nations. So you're really quite ignorant in that area...more posting what you THINK is true?

No They are not required to read/write Arabic. They employ translators from selected private companies. Look it up. you dont have to stoop to personal attacks to get your points across. What about 3rd generation immigrants so forth, are they to go home because they have a different color skin than you ?

 

[ibjamming]

No They are not required to read/write Arabic. They employ translators from selected private companies. Look it up. you dont have to stoop to personal attacks to get your points across. What about 3rd generation immigrants so forth, are they to go home because they have a different color skin than you ?

Of course they're not required to learn Arabic...only an idiot would think they did. They do however learn a few phrases...and they MOST CERTAINLY have to ADJUST...quite radically...their OWN behavior! Something that these immigrants are NOT expected to do. The sole of your foot insults them...touching them with your left hand insults them...the fucking list is ENDLESS!

You guys with NO "real" experience with Islam talk like it's no big deal...just another group of foreigners moving in down the street. Islam takes over. Always has, always will. You DO know it's the worlds fastest growing religion? Why? Because a major tenet of Islam is CONVERSION. They're always on the lookout for new Muslims. The problem is...once they get a majority...EVERYONE then becomes Muslim or are treated as outsiders. Just what we're accused of doing. It's a trick! Don't fall for it.

 

[DaWeedinDaHood]

But that's NOT happening with some groups...they're NOT assimilating. It's been 150 years in the states...are blacks assimilated? No.

What about Colin Powell or Condoleeza Rice or Obama?Not assimilated?
You should throw your Tv by the window...fox news are bad for your mental health...

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Quote ibjamming : To me, the bottom line is...if you move to MY country...you're going to play by OUR rules...not the ones back home.

...This whole planet is MY country......just as much as it is yours......and I play by what rules I feel are fair and righteous, where ever I go....and not by YOUR rules...

*we are all EARTHLINGS

 

[buddah]

Quote ibjamming : To me, the bottom line is...if you move to MY country...you're going to play by OUR rules...not the ones back home.

...This whole planet is MY country......just as much as it is yours......and I play by what rules I feel are fair and righteous, where ever I go....and not by YOUR rules...

*we are all EARTHLINGS

word!!!

 

[ibjamming]

What about Colin Powell or Condoleeza Rice or Obama?Not assimilated?
You should throw your Tv by the window...fox news are bad for your mental health...

As a group...as a group... Of course there are many successful, fully integrated people of EVERY persuasion. But as a whole...it's STILL "us" vs "them"...is it not?

Quote ibjamming : To me, the bottom line is...if you move to MY country...you're going to play by OUR rules...not the ones back home.

...This whole planet is MY country......just as much as it is yours......and I play by what rules I feel are fair and righteous, where ever I go....and not by YOUR rules...

*we are all EARTHLINGS

Is see your side...we're ALL fellow travelers on this big beautiful ball we call earth. I can see your side.

But you also have to see "my" side...private property. What's mine is mine...I worked for it, I decide its fate. Nations are collective private property. Within the nation is personal private property.

I don't see anyone changing people of that mindset any time soon. In fact, with a growing global population, I fear less and less "free and open" lands will remain.

You'll be able to travel freely...but with conditions. If you've been around, you know, different regions, different things to be aware of.

I still stick to my opinion...if you want to set up permanent shop...become a citizen...you have to play by their rules. and you may not be able to do all the things you could before...beating your wife to name but one.

Besides....what IS so special about "culture"? Really...why hold onto the past? Is culture dogma? To be followed religiously? If it no longer applies or is no longer appropriate...let it go. Adopt the new culture...the one that was obviously more successful than the one you left.

I'll say it again...if back home was so great...and so worth holding onto...why are you here? Why not fix back home? Why ruin this place with failed beliefs? OUR culture made this what it is...not yours. Why ruin a good thing?

It's the way I see it...

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

I wonder.....were you 'playing by the rules'.....in YOUR country before you became prop 215/SB Compliant?

 

[DaWeedinDaHood]

Good guess^^

As a group...as a group... Of course there are many successful, fully integrated people of EVERY persuasion. But as a whole...it's STILL "us" vs "them"...is it not?

Wow...it's worst than i thought...you play the same game as any extremist by saying this...following you reasoning i could say all the white are rich,racist,killer of colored people and theft of their ressources?Should I?
I think you are confused between social problem and racial problem...
I thought that as a smoker/grower you should understand what is it to be a part of a minority...

 

[Sandnut]

3. Most Turks showed no interest in "becoming German".

This is infact very true and goes for the majority of certain people from certain countries

 

[binaryfission]

Fascism abounds.

Fascism abounds.

In anyone marginalizes anyone, it's the sects doing it to themselves.Terrorists couldn't EXIST if their own kind would stand with the rest of the civilized world against them.That's what this is all about.

You sir have a very limited understanding of what makes a terrorist.

You said it yourself...



Minorities...MOST certainly not all...have done just that...failed to adapt. Why? In MY opinion, they're own doing. We all know they're "against the man". They fight "us" (mainstream American society) every step of the way. The worst thing you can do is "cave into the man". Education ("our" education) is considered giving in.

It's been fight fight fight...since the Civil War. Forget about Africa unless you plan on going back. You live HERE now. Yes, we fucked up, we shouldn't have brought you here...or more accurately...we shouldn't have let OTHERS bring you here. Slavery IS wrong. But 150 years later, to STILL blame "me", and to STILL fight against joining our society has proven to be racial suicide. If you're living at the top, you can afford to be picky...f your at the bottom, you do what you MUST to rise out.

The Asians do it, the educate themselves, work hard, and eventually become mainstream. They're the only "minority" that does this. I see the rest as "just coming for the benefits"...be that work, welfare, peace, whatever...not here to become "American".

Well...yes, I do believe that. It's what reality has shown me. We have more stuff, but are we better off culturally? I sure don't think so. I saw what it was like. Trust me, we had less "toys", be we were ALL happier...mainstream America that is.

No...minorities need to "play ball"...they need to quit hanging onto their past and start a NEW life here...or wherever they are...as ONE OF THEIR NEW COUNTRIES CITIZENS. They screw themselves by staying different.

Muslims need to drop all the religious crap and when in public...look and act like others. Blacks need to treat school as a place of learning...not whatever they treat it like now. Mexicans need to #1 be legal...and #2 learn the speak english.

It needs to become "when in Rome, do as the Romans". We can't all "do our own thing, have our own values"...it DOESN'T work!

Do you REALLY think it's worked over the last 40 years? Without all the programs and affirmative action...have they really risen up? As a group?

I don't think so...and I want to know the REAL reason why...not the politically correct lies I've been told for the last 40 years.

I have NOTHING against ANYONE...until you start acting like an idiot and show me your meddle...then I make my decision...then I judge.

We MUST be honest in our discussions...the days of "this is taboo, we can't talk about it" are over. Things ARE boiling over...look at the tea party...hell, if they get in...things will change big time.

I want english as the ONLY language.

Yes, I guess I am afraid of some changes...some things changing. Who wouldn't? Especially when we've seen what it was like before and what it has become. My childhood was a paradise...we'd leave the house a 7am and wouldn't be home until dinner. Now there are "playdates"? The world is MUCH worse than it was...

Wow. I say if you can;t accept America as a melting pot then leave. Move to Germany. America doesn't need any more small minded folks.

1.) Germany outright says if you don't speak our language and attempt to hold our values, you don't belong here. I say good for them...I wish the USA had the balls Germany does...spanish and mexican bullshit is taking over everything here and has been for years, and Americans sit back and tell themselves "i should learn spanish" because millions of illegals come up here and run their mouth about how everything is in english and there should be a spanish option.

You like food? You enjoy your supermarket fresh beef and summer fruit all year round??

Those hispanics provide that for you. And until yo understand that huge companies employ these people, you are blowing smoke. You are falling victim to the Multi-Nationals propaganda. Immigrants bad; make immigration laws stricter so these abused workers can never have rights, and we can keep paying them a nickel everyday.
Can you step back and see the bigger picture? Your focused on supply when it is a demand issue.
The people you don't want here are illegal. You think mandating the English language will scare them off. You think that will create a social situation in their home countries where they can provide a living wage to their families and don;t have a need to come here. You're ignorant brosef.

2.) Christian values are moral values, simple as that. Love one another, turn the other cheek, respect, kindness, forgiveness...this isn't religious extremism. That would be the Westboro Baptist Church, and even then that's on the low side of extremism...until Christian's start putting explosive packs on their body and blowing up non-believers I feel the Muslims' got extremism on lock.

Good for you Germany.

OMG. Catholic Kiddy-fuckers, the crusades, slavery, IMF, World Bank, Central Banking. Christians are the original extremists. The don't blow up people they control whole nations through banking and trade policies. Again, with the ignorance.

 

[johnnyla]

As a group...as a group... Of course there are many successful, fully integrated people of EVERY persuasion. But as a whole...it's STILL "us" vs "them"...is it not?



Is see your side...we're ALL fellow travelers on this big beautiful ball we call earth. I can see your side.

But you also have to see "my" side...private property. What's mine is mine...I worked for it, I decide its fate. Nations are collective private property. Within the nation is personal private property.

I don't see anyone changing people of that mindset any time soon. In fact, with a growing global population, I fear less and less "free and open" lands will remain.

You'll be able to travel freely...but with conditions. If you've been around, you know, different regions, different things to be aware of.

I still stick to my opinion...if you want to set up permanent shop...become a citizen...you have to play by their rules. and you may not be able to do all the things you could before...beating your wife to name but one.

Besides....what IS so special about "culture"? Really...why hold onto the past? Is culture dogma? To be followed religiously? If it no longer applies or is no longer appropriate...let it go. Adopt the new culture...the one that was obviously more successful than the one you left.

I'll say it again...if back home was so great...and so worth holding onto...why are you here? Why not fix back home? Why ruin this place with failed beliefs? OUR culture made this what it is...not yours. Why ruin a good thing?

It's the way I see it...

you know people can assimilate AND retain their culture. if you decided to move to germany because you met the love of your life, she was hot, and germany legalized weed, would you forget everything American about you? would you stop listening to the music you still liked that you grew up with? can't you listen to new stuff as well as old?

i agree people need to assimilate way more than certain "immigrants", but that doesn't mean they have to erase the past either.

 

[maryj315]

I'll say it again...if back home was so great...and so worth holding onto...why are you here? Why not fix back home? Why ruin this place with failed beliefs? OUR culture made this what it is...not yours. Why ruin a good thing?

It's the way I see it...

I think a PATH to full citizenship along with a complete integration within the community, and most important the government would solve most of Americas and German's immigrant woes. Second class citizens turn into enemy's of the state over time. While culture is important patriotism for your nation is greater. There is nothing patriotic in having someone born and raised in a country and still considered a second class citizen.

Immigration is nothing but a wedge issue the Republicans roll out during election time to make sure people like IBJAMMING get out and vote. However, they never pass any meaningful legislation or make the states at-heed to the laws already in the books while in power.

Mj

 

[In~Plain~Site]

You sir have a very limited understanding of what makes a terrorist.

But of course.

It's everything that's being done to them that makes them react in such violence against innocent people.

Perfectly justifiable.

While in the same breathe you chastiseall Catholics, for the actions of a small minority, without mentioning the good that they provide?

You sir are an *****

 

[maryj315]

But of course.

It's everything that's being done to them that makes them react in such violence against innocent people.

Perfectly justifiable.

While in the same breathe you chastiseall Catholics, for the actions of a small minority, without mentioning the good that they provide?

You sir are an *****

Who is the leading in the body count Catholics or Muslims?

Mj