Male clones transformed to Female to judge male smoking quality

[mr.brunch]

Nevil did good things back in the day, spreading seeds and making nice crosses.
Shame the law stopped him in his tracks. I have much respect for this. Just seems people use his name these days to add credibility IMO
Sorry , off topic.

 

[stoned-trout]

very interesting..i have judged my males by smell, trichomes and pod clusters,growth patterns... being able to reverse em would be much better,,,,hmmmmm

 

[OakyJoe]

maybe this helps

Bonza Bud is an anti-gibberellins-based hormone that is available from most good grow shops. It will help keep internode
lengths short and promote female flowers.

Ozi Tonic contains tricantanol, gibberellic acid, propolis and vitamin B. The gibberellic acid can promote male growth, and
females that grow from Ozi Tonic treated plants may have increased yields.

 

[Only Ornamental]

Doesn't Bonza Bud contain PBZ? *Wretch!!*
But for a 'no smoke grow test' and seed runs no problemo...
From what I've found on the net, GA for female to male sex reversal works probably better when the plants are treated with GA from seed on. Though, a complete reversal won't be achieved, just some sort of hermaphroditism...

 

[Elmer Bud]

G`day OO

GA on seeds makes them stretch like crazy .
I have read up about using it to help germ old seeds . The tech called for burying the elongated stem in the medium .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[Only Ornamental]

Thanks for your insights!
GA is 'quite common' to speed up germination of old or 'recalcitrant' seeds but when I read about the effects it has on hemp (though at higher concentrations) I started wondering if GA doesn't show some side effects.

 

[Tonygreen]

Rhizobacteria might also speed up germination it seems.

 

[SeedsOfFreedom]

Sam, just to confirm concentrations for the Ethephon: 1 mL Ethrel(480g/L) per Liter of water? Which is 999ppm? Correct? Then spray weekly.

Also what is the ph of Ethephon? Is that anything to do with the damage it does to leaves? Sorry for so many questions, but I love learning about this stuff!

Thanks for all the info and I think this thread should get a sticky, this is a great tool for breeders. Sam you are the man!

 

[Only Ornamental]

... just to confirm concentrations for the Ethephon: 1 mL Ethrel(480g/L) per Liter of water? Which is 999ppm? Correct? Then spray weekly.

Also what is the ph of Ethephon? Is that anything to do with the damage it does to leaves? Sorry for so many questions, but I love learning about this stuff!
...

That would be 480 ppm .

pH is acidic, roughly around 4. It's good like that (stability reasons) and once diluted shouldn't harm your plants.
Should you get burns, then it's the ethylene doing so. Spraying the plants should be done on 'dew-wet' plants (read label).

 

[harry74]

Just Curious Sam, you don´t have to answer of course:

¿ Are you of Scottish origin ?

 

[hyb.0]

over 6 years later....Did anyone discover the YY genotype yet? (in a reversed male S1)

What happens?


...I reversed a male with ethephon, pollinated it with another male, made the seeds, stored them in the deep freeze and never sprouted them....yet.

 

[Tonygreen]

Idk but graphing otu a quick punnet square it dont look good lol!

 

[Only Ornamental]

over 6 years later....Did anyone discover the YY genotype yet? (in a reversed male S1)

What happens?


...I reversed a male with ethephon, pollinated it with another male, made the seeds, stored them in the deep freeze and never sprouted them....yet.

Theory says that you will get 1/4 females, 1/2 normal males, and 1/4 'super males' (i.e. YY). Some publications imply that the % of YY will be lower due to some 'instability' issues of the Y gametes... Worst case, you get 1/3 females and 2/3 normal males.
How to tell the two kinds of males apart without doing a test cross and bring the offspring to flower, I do not know.
You should plant those seeds of yours ASAP!!

 

[GreenintheThumb]

over 6 years later....Did anyone discover the YY genotype yet? (in a reversed male S1)

What happens?


...I reversed a male with ethephon, pollinated it with another male, made the seeds, stored them in the deep freeze and never sprouted them....yet.

Send them to me I'll pop them all tomorrow.

 

[hyb.0]

popping the seeds is not even half the battle you will face to confirm the YY plants......not even a hundredth of the battle...and then you will ask... What purpose can YY plants serve?...let me know.

 

[GreenintheThumb]

If you found that 25% of the seeds didn't even pop you would have covered more than 1% of the battle.

They could be used to take gynoecious lines back to traditional M/F types.

They could potentially further our understanding of what's in the PAR region.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24465491

They could potentially further our understanding of the difference in sex determination and sex differentiation genes in cannabis.

Nolan Kane at boulder would likely be interested in them.

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/ci_25093731/cu-boulder-prof-aims-get-inside-cannabis-genome

I guess I don't know what you'd do with them in Oregon or wherever you're at these days but I'd have a few good ideas about what to do with them in Colorado.

 

[hyb.0]

GIT..

I'm not sure where people heard that YY plants don't germinate....is that proven? or just speculated? From what I read, it didn't seem certain....and if they don't germinate, then how do you expect to restore M/F to gynoecious lines?

If they DO germinate, you will have your hands full producing and growing out testcrosses to isolate which plants are YY...I suppose this is why nobody has isolated the YY plants, huh?....lots of work, for very little benefit.

Solidifying our understanding about sex chromosomes in Cannabis?....yes, I agree with that. Although it is pretty well documented already; enough to use the plant and do all the work.

Will Nolan really need (or want) YY plants to do what he's doing in CO?

Molecular plant breeding will make conventional methods totally obsolete in the near future, and reversing males and isolating YY plants will probably not have much of a reason to exist...X/Y plants will have limited utility, like has already happened with drug cannabis. Finally, selection will be accurate, genetic erosion will be minimized, and we are going to finally take this hacking into the next generation, large-scale conventional hackjobs will also be obsolete. Good times ahead!

Still in Oregon.....

havagoodone GIT,
hyb

 

[GreenintheThumb]

It's just something that could possible happen. I think more than likely we wouldn't even have seed set with the YY pollen more so than seeds forming and not popping. Who knows.

Maybe the YY would be easier to see than you think, maybe they'd have some visual phenotype, tighter male clusters or something? If not, it would be much easier for someone in a lab to identify them than for you to look through test crosses of progeny.

Nolan wouldn't need the YY to do what he's doing, but it would be interesting and I'm sure he would be interested in them. Most researchers would be.

With you on the molecular plant breeding. We've mostly been on the same page ever since I was a freshman in college and you had me head down to the agriculture library to pick up Allard's work. Glad to see you still kicking facts. Hope your stay is longer than usual. If not, I'll see you at hyb.7

Hit me up if you're ever in Colorado.

 

[ahortator]

Hi

Originally Posted by Nevil View Post
Yep, done that. I selfed the HazeC male. Theoretically their should be 25% YY. I was looking for them.
I got about 33% females and 66% males, no intersex. I progeny tested maybe 20 males, All produced normal male to female ratio's and no intersex. The seeds had normal viability, so I guessed that YY would block seed growing in the first place.

None of the HzC male selfed, came close to being as good as HzC for breeding.
N.

It would be not very difficult to find a YY male (if they are possible) by progeny testing.

It would be interesting to know if somebody can get regular seeds only from males. My goal is strain preservation. I know it is not the best way (surely one of the worst methods, because it involves selfing). But it would be the only way if you only get males and you don't like to backcross many times and keep male clones alive.

Male sex reversion is not very difficult.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=277729&page=2

Greetings.

 

[hyb.0]

GIT,
Yes, I think it is possible that YY plants have a new visible phenotype... They could look VERY MUCH like a typical male, until some other trait arises later...like infertile or subvital pollen...does anyone think Nevil tried to use the pollen from the "66% males" he found?

I'm glad I could be of some help to you in the past, Git.. I always try to help even though it may look like something else......and yes, I will see you at hyb.7! haha

hi ahortator,

I think you can recover a typical M/F seedlot from a reversed male... It doesn't really have to be from an S1. I made an experimental seedlot from a reversed male X a 'real' male (a different plant in the same seedline). I am not sure how this fits into your preservation thing, Im just saying I did it without selfing.

Something for you to consider...... it is a lot harder to actually pull off 20 male reversals, 20 solid seed productions on 20 reversed males AND THEN 20 adequately sized progeny tests than it is to simply imagine how it gets done. The subsequent progeny grows of AT LEAST 100 individuals each are required (probably far more actually) to make your data statistically relevant. There is no statistical significance in anything if you only grow out 20 plants each line, right?) I am a doubter...I doubt Nevil grew out all of the plants(2-3 thousand?) and got good data from this RESEARCH PROJECT, while under prohibition.....I'm guess I'm just kinda funny that way..

havagoodone,
hyb