Malaysian airliner crashes in E. Ukraine

[gaiusmarius]

they got the EU to add sanctions, thats all that matters. as long as they want the sanctions to remain, they will not give us the deffinate answer to this crash, because they know all the evidence points at the UKR army. thats why the report was so usless, they said just enough so everyone can keep up their own belief of what happened. not a single piece of relevant information was newly released in that report. totally weak, funnily enough it's only the Russians who are still talking about this investigation needing to be put in to high gear and complaining how the international investigation is not sharing all the information with all the international representatives. it's just like the snippers in Kiev, as soon as they realized that the bullets were not the ones the swat team and or police snipers use, they stopped talking about the snipers, let alone investigating it. we now know it was the pro maidan side that had occupied the building from where the fatal shots were fired killing scores of people from both the police side and the protesters side. but yeah with the coroner saying both protesters and cops were all killed by the same type of bullets. the protesters even confronted one of the right sector leaders when they found he had a sniper rifle in his car.

but yeah, as the evidence for a false flag attack mounts, no one reports a word about it anymore in the west. it's always the same our msm is bought and paid for, they are 100% compromised. new book by a German media guy of over 20 years is spilling the beans with a best seller about how the media is always on the side of the gov when they are asked for cooperation, they always give it. so happy the Germans have a chance to wake up about the media, before it's too late and we are pushed into destroying relations with Russia even more.

 

[Hermanthegerman]

In my personal case it´s interesting. I never hated the russians, in oposite, not in the cold war or before some month. I was a friend of russia, had a lot to do with german/russians and russians that are so called german/russians. I was in Moscow for one time but now ist all over.
Everthings changed, now it´s poisened, if I have to do with russian collegues, customers, I act friendly but I am not real. I know it better, but as I wrote it is poisened. From a lifelong friend to foe in 5 months.

 

[jump117]

Thanks for the warning, I'll keep in mind.
Something like this has changed my attitude to Ukrainians when they scream that I am a slave and subhuman.

 

[gaiusmarius]

don't worry guys, both the French and the Germans have announced that the sanctions could soon be lifted, they know now that they were played and and forced into going with sanctions by the US, Biden admitted it just today or yesterday in a speech at some University. the sanctions have hurt the EU already greatly and every month it goes on adds more economic worries for eu member states, all this during a recession where they need every cent of trade they can get they are forced to sacrifice huge profits annually just because the US has decided to meddle in Ukraine and things didnt go according to plan.

 

[Elmer Bud]

G`day Giaus

It may already be too late for the farmers .
Crops were harvested but had no destinations . And EU is not big on cold storage .

Crops are picked and transported in a short space of time . Russia is a huge consumer of EU produce .
Some folks won`t get paid for their crops ...

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[gaiusmarius]

yeah i know, i read that the eu has a few hundred million ready to compensate farmers, but the trouble is that the food trade involved is worth over a billion a year, so yeah, this is gonna hurt the eu tax payers as always as each country will have to compensate the food producers for the losses they are forcing them to incur, or they risk a whole industry going bust meanwhile local Russian farmers are going at it like never before hopping the sanctions last long enough for them to be able to start filling the gaps. same with quite a few south American countries, China is also getting added benefits from this situation. they will be selling the hi tech shit thats on the sanctions list to Russia i have no doubt. Russia is not Iran after all, can't bully them into compliance.

 

[gaiusmarius]

slowly the truth is coming out, the Russians have every interest to get this cleared up, this documentary shows you the evidence they have gathered so far, including witness statements.

http://rt.com/shows/documentary/197540-mh-17-crash-ukraine/

 

[med_breeder]

As world oil prices drop,

The shirtless wonder is punished.

 

[Elmer Bud]

As world oil prices drop,

The shirtless wonder is punished.

G`day MB

Oil is yesterday .
Natural Gas is the new conflict starter . Gazprom out of Russia and the Frienship Pipeline, a proposed gas line from Iran the home of the worlds biggest deposits both heading into the EU .

Control of Iran has been priority #1 for a long time .
The oil wars are secondary now ...

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[gaiusmarius]

more info pointing to Ukrainian guilt

more info pointing to Ukrainian guilt

want to share this as most media won't bother covering this, any part of the story that doesn't confirm the preconceived narrative is ignored. isn't it incredible how little they care about this event at this point. During Lockerbie when Libya was blamed, they kept it up for years and years. but this event seems no longer to be a desirable story in the msm, what a surprise. anyway check this out, follow the link to see the pics and for the source links.

MH17 might have been shot down from air – chief Dutch investigator

http://rt.com/news/199891-dutch-investigation-mh17-crash/

The chief Dutch prosecutor investigating the MH17 downing in eastern Ukraine does not exclude the possibility that the aircraft might have been shot down from air, Der Spiegel reported. Intelligence to support this was presented by Moscow in July.

The chief investigator with the Dutch National Prosecutors' Office Fred Westerbeke said in an interview with the German magazine Der Spiegel published on Monday that his team is open to the theory that another plane shot down the Malaysian airliner.

Following the downing of the Malaysian Airlines MH17 flight in July that killed almost 300 people, Russia’s Defense Ministry released military monitoring data, which showed a Kiev military jet tracking the MH17 plane shortly before the crash. No explanation was given by Kiev as to why the military plane was flying so close to a passenger aircraft. Neither Ukraine, nor Western states have officially accepted such a possibility.

Westerbeke said that the Dutch investigators are preparing an official request for Moscow’s assistance since Russia is not part of the international investigation team. Westerbeke added that the investigators will specifically ask for the radar data suggesting that a Kiev military jet was flying near the passenger plane right before the catastrophe.

"Going by the intelligence available, it is my opinion that a shooting down by a surface to air missile remains the most likely scenario. But we are not closing our eyes to the possibility that things might have happened differently,” he elaborated.

A picture taken on October 15, 2014 shows the wreckage of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 near the village of Rassipnoe. The flight MH17 was shoot down on July 17, 2014 with 298 people on board. (AFP Photo)

The international probe led by the Dutch - as nearly two-thirds of the victims were from the Netherlands - has not yet established how the crash happened. A preliminary report issued in September said only that the plane crashed as a result of structural damage from outside.

READ MORE: MH17 broke up in mid-air due to external damage - Dutch preliminary report http://rt.com/news/186256-malaysia-airlines-probe-report/

Meanwhile, a report issued by the Dutch Safety Board on air crashes, listed several passenger jets in flight MH17's vicinity, but no military aircraft nearby.

In regard to this report Westerbeke said that the statement was based on information that was available at the time suggesting Russia could have more information on the issue.

READ MORE: Ukrainian Su-25 fighter detected in close approach to MH17 before crash - Moscow http://rt.com/news/174412-malaysia-plane-russia-ukraine/

Though the West has accused Eastern Ukrainian militia forces of shooting down the plane, it has provided only circumstantial evidence in support of such claims. Moscow has urged the US to release satellite images that prove its claims.

“This may be a coincidence, but the US satellite flew over Ukraine at exactly the same time when the Malaysian airliner crashed,” a Russian Defense ministry spokesman said in a July statement.

In his interview to the German media, Westerbeke also called on the US to release proof that supports its claims.

“We remain in contact with the United States in order to receive satellite photos,” he said.

READ MORE: 10 more questions Russian military pose to Ukraine, US over MH17 crash http://rt.com/news/174496-malaysia-crash-russia-questions/

German’s foreign intelligence agency reportedly also believes that local militia shot down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, according to Der Spiegel. The media report claimed the Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND) president Gerhard Schindler provided “ample evidence to back up his case, including satellite images and diverse photo evidence,” to the Bundestag in early October.

However, the Dutch prosecutor stated that he is “not aware of the specific images in question”.

“The problem is that there are many different satellite images. Some can be found on the Internet, whereas others originate from foreign intelligence services.”

The Kiev government and Eastern Ukraine rebels have accused each other of shooting down the plane. Kiev released what it calls an intercepted conversation between rebel fighters in which they admit to downing a plane.

A picture taken on October 15, 2014 shows candles and plush toys at the site of the crash of the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 near the village of Rassipnoe. (AFP Photo)


The Dutch prosecutor stated that “we will need evidence and more than a recorded phone call from the Internet or photos from the crash site. That's why we are considering several scenarios and not just one.”

The Dutch investigators have come under criticism especially from the relatives of the victims, who blame the probe for slow progress.

Westerbeke elaborated that it will take a long time to establish what really happened adding “we certainly need the whole of next year for work”.

“It’s not easy, but we can do it."

Westerbeke concluded that in the Netherlands 10 prosecutors are investigating the incident, as well as forensic experts and 80 policemen. While the Dutch also regularly hold meetings with colleagues from Malaysia, Australia and Ukraine.

 

[gaiusmarius]

When Henry Kissinger Makes Sense

When Henry Kissinger Makes Sense

for the sake of giving you the other side of the story, i want to share this article by Robert Parry quoting Kissinger on the Ukraine crises with you guys. as tokers, we need to be informed enough not to fall for backing the war mongers in their wars.

When Henry Kissinger Makes Sense

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article40223.htm

Henry Kissinger disputes the mainstream U.S. media’s view of the Ukraine crisis, noting that Russia’s response was reactive to the West’s actions, not the other way around. But the MSM keeps up the drumbeat about Russian “aggression,”

By Robert Parry

November 14, 2014 "ICH" - "Consortium News"- The American public is faced with an information crisis as the New York Times and other mainstream U.S. media outlets have become little more than propaganda organs on behalf of the neoconservative agenda and particularly the rush into a new Cold War with Russia – so much so that even ex-Secretary of State Henry Kissinger has broken ranks.

MSM articles consistently reek of bias – and in some cases make little sense. For instance, Times correspondent David M. Herszenhorn, one of the leading propagandists, wrote an alarmist story on Wednesday about a new Russian “invasion” of Ukraine but curiously he had the alleged Russian tank column heading east toward the Ukrainian city of Donetsk which would be back toward Russia, not westward into Ukraine.

According to Herszenhorn’s article, “The full scope of the Russian incursion is not clear, [NATO Supreme Commander Gen. Philip M. Breedlove] said, though the convoys seemed to be heading east toward Donetsk, an O.S.C.E. spokesman, Michael Bociurkiw, said Wednesday.”

Typical of his anti-Russian bias, Herszenhorn also cited Ukrainian government complaints that the Russians had been using a shaky cease-fire to bolster the ethnic Russian rebels in the east, but the reality is that both sides have been accusing the other of such maneuvering. Herszenhorn surely knows this but he wrote only:

“Ukrainian officials have complained all along that Russia was taking advantage of the so-called truce to reinforce the rebels in eastern Ukraine with more fighters and equipment.”

The reality is that there has been widespread alarm among eastern Ukrainians that the Kiev regime was using the relative lull in the fighting to resupply and reposition its forces for a new offensive like the one that killed thousands over the summer. Though human rights organizations have criticized Kiev for indiscriminate shelling of cities and unleashing brutal militia forces on the population, the Times and other mainstream U.S. newspapers have either ignored or downplayed such facts.

On Wednesday, Herszenhorn also compared the alleged new Russian incursion with the “invasion” of Crimea, although there really was no “invasion” of Crimea since the Russian troops that were involved in supporting Crimea’s popular referendum to secede from Ukraine and rejoin Russia were already in Crimea under an agreement with the Ukrainian government regarding the Russian naval base at Sebastopol.

Herszenhorn’s use of the word “invasion” is just an exaggeration like the rest of the imbalanced reporting that has made a rational U.S. public response to the crisis in Ukraine nearly impossible.

Since the start of the crisis in February, the New York Times’ coverage has been remarkable in its refusal to present the Ukraine story in anything like an objective fashion. For example, the Times has largely ignored the substantial public evidence that U.S. government officials and agents helped orchestrate the Feb. 22 coup which overthrew the elected President Viktor Yanukovych. [See Consortiumnews.com’s “The Whys Behind the Ukraine Crisis.”]

The Times also has buried evidence that extreme right-wing and neo-Nazi elements played key roles in firebombing police, forcing Yanukovych and other government officials to flee for their lives, and spearheading later attacks on ethnic Russians. When this reality is referenced, it is usually presented with little meaningful context or tacked on in the last few paragraphs of long articles on other topics.

Mocking Medvedev

Herszenhorn himself has been a leading violator of journalistic standards. For instance, in mid-April, early on in the crisis, he penned a mocking story from Moscow ridiculing Russian Prime Minister Dmitri Medvedev for predicting a possible civil war.

In the article entitled “Russia Is Quick To Bend Truth About Ukraine,” Herszenhorn accused Medvedev of posting an item on Facebook that “was bleak and full of dread,” including noting that “blood has been spilled in Ukraine again” and adding that “the threat of civil war looms.”

Herszenhorn continued, “He [Medvedev] pleaded with Ukrainians to decide their own future ‘without usurpers, nationalists and bandits, without tanks or armored vehicles – and without secret visits by the C.I.A. director.’ And so began another day of bluster and hyperbole, of the misinformation, exaggerations, conspiracy theories, overheated rhetoric and, occasionally, outright lies about the political crisis in Ukraine that have emanated from the highest echelons of the Kremlin and reverberated on state-controlled Russian television, hour after hour, day after day, week after week.”

This argumentative “news” story spilled from the front page to the top half of an inside page, but Herszenhorn never managed to mention that there was nothing false in what Medvedev wrote. Indeed, as the bloodshed soon grew worse and escalated into a civil war, you might say Medvedev was tragically prescient.

It was also the much-maligned Russian press that first reported the secret visit of CIA Director John Brennan to Kiev. Though the White House later confirmed that report, Herszenhorn still cited Medvedev’s reference to it in the context of “misinformation” and “conspiracy theories.” Nowhere in the long article did the Times inform its readers that, yes, the CIA director did make a secret visit to Ukraine.

In this upside-down world of MSM disinformation, there has been very little criticism of the glaring biases of the mainstream Western media but instead continued attacks on the professionalism of the Russian media, including an adverse finding this week by an official British agency that monitors alleged bias in news outlets operating in the UK. The agency, known as Ofcom, accused Russia’s RT network of failing to meet standards for “due impartiality” in early Ukraine coverage.

Interestingly, Ofcom did not judge any of the RT reports false in their description of neo-Nazi thugs participating in the Feb. 22 coup, a possible role of coup-related snipers in the slaughter of scores of people at the Maidan, and the unconstitutionality of the new government.

But Ofcom faulted RT for not meeting the fuzzy concept of “due impartiality” and threatened regulatory sanctions against RT if it didn’t shape up. Ofcom defined “due impartiality” as “impartiality adequate or appropriate to the subject and nature of the programme.”

The image of a British regulatory body threatening RT with sanctions for not toeing the pro-Western propaganda line that nearly all UK and U.S. news outlets do has an Orwellian feel to it, singling out one of the few sources of news that doesn’t accept the prevailing “group think.”

It would be one thing if the same standards were applied to Western media outlets for their one-sided reporting on Ukraine, but that apparently would ruffle too many important feathers.

Kissinger’s Dissent

Curiously, one of the few prominent Westerners who has dared question the prevailing wisdom on Ukraine is former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger who said, in an interview with the German newsmagazine Der Spiegel, that the West was exaggerating the significance of the Crimean annexation given the peninsula’s long historic ties to Russia.

“The annexation of the Crimea was no bid for world domination,” the 91-year-old Kissinger said. “It is not to be compared with Hitler’s invasion in Czechoslovakia” – as former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and others have done.

Kissinger noted that Russian President Vladimir Putin had no intention of instigating a crisis in Ukraine: “Putin had [spent] tens of billions of dollars for the Olympic Winter Games … in Sochi. Russia wanted to present [itself] as a progressive nation. … It does not make sense that Putin, a week later, [launches] the Crimea attacks and a war for Ukraine begins.”

Instead Kissinger argued that the West – with its strategy of pulling Ukraine into the orbit of the European Union – was responsible for the crisis by failing to understand Russian sensitivity over Ukraine and making the “fatal” mistake of quickly pushing the confrontation beyond dialogue.

But Kissinger also faulted Putin for his reaction to the crisis. “I do not want to say that Russia’s response was appropriate,” Kissinger said.

Still, Kissinger told Der Spiegel that “a new edition of the Cold War would be a tragedy. … We must keep in view, that we need Russia to solve other crises, such as the nuclear conflict with Iran or Syria’s civil war.” [The interview appeared in Der Spiegel's print edition only.]

When Henry Kissinger starts to sound like the voice of reason, it says a lot about how crazy the New York Times and the rest of the MSM have become.

Investigative reporter Robert Parry broke many of the Iran-Contra stories for The Associated Press and Newsweek in the 1980s

 

[idiit]

just released a few minutes ago:

HD satellite image of alleged UA fighter attacking MH17
Tags: RUSSIA/UKRAINE
HD satellite image of alleged UA fighter attacking MH17

Launch of air-to-air missile can be see on the image.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bc3_1415985472

 

[idiit]

‘US withheld sat. image of MH17 downing’

The Russian news service, Itar-Tass today published satellite photos clearly proving that Malaysian Airlines flight MH17, which crashed in eastern Ukraine on July 17, 2014, was downed by a Kiev-backed jet fighter.

The United States and Great Britain have had these photos for months, proving the Kiev junta responsible for purposefully downing the plane and killing 298 passengers and crew, 196 of them from the Netherlands.

In fact, for months, the preponderance of evidence has indicated that the downing of MH17 was done by Kiev as an act of false flag terrorism, one of many during the conflict. However, as accusations against Kiev gained substance, the investigation was handed to the Dutch government, who tabled the entire process for over a year without any promise of a definitive finding.

All the while, the US was accusing Russia of the attack and threatening retaliation, these photos were in the hands of NATO leaders.

MH17 was flying at 500 miles per hour at 31,000 feet when the SU-22 opened up with 30mm cannon and finished the plane off with an air to air missile into the cockpit, as seen clearly on the satellite photo.

Thus far, there has been no response from the US. If, as Andriyevsky asserts, the satellite photos are genuine, it isn’t simply the Kiev junta that is culpable. It was long known that the US had satellite photos and detailed records of AEGIS radar that would have shown exactly what happened.

It is now clear why these satellite images were withheld as they failed to support America’s policy of sanctioning Russia on behalf of a regime now clearly guilty of terrorism on a global scale.

Moreover, the satellite photos of MH17 are a clear indication that the US also has photos showing the fate of MH370 as well, the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 that disappeared from the face of the earth without a trace on March 8, 2014.

We can only ask why these are also being withheld and what other agenda, what other half-baked terror plot the fate of MH370 may have served.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/11/15/386130/us-withheld-sat-image-of-mh17/

 

[LEF]

world politics is fun but it's hard to really know what's going on in the world

 

[gaiusmarius]

it is strange that the US has not shown it's satellite images from the special missile tracking satellite they had pointed at that area at that exact time. i suppose it was turned off at the time yes? just like 99% of the surveillance cameras at the pentagon on 911? lmao, they were also off when the 19 boarded the flights they were gonna hijack.

on the other hand there is some suspicion about the above pic being a fake? but really the US still not sharing it's pics after all this time, makes a strong case for Kiev being the perpetrator, whether by accident hopping to shot down Putin and getting the wrong plane, or on purpose as a false flag attack to be blamed on the Russians or the separatists if it won't stick to Putin.

 

[idiit]

28.11.2014 Author: Ulson Gunnar
MH17: Malaysia’s Barring from Investigation Reeks of Cover-up
First appeared: http://journal-neo.org/2014/11/28/mh17-malaysia-s-barring-from-investigation-reeks-of-cover-up/

kraine’s involvement in the investigation is particularly troublesome. Had MH17 crashed in Ukraine under different circumstances, Ukraine’s role would be welcome. However, it was apparently shot down specifically in a conflict in which Kiev itself is a participant. With both sides of the conflict possessing anti-aircraft weapons and with Kiev itself confirmed to possess weapons capable of reaching the altitude MH17 was flying at when it was allegedly hit, Kiev becomes a possible suspect in the investigation. Kiev’s inclusion in JIT represents a monumental conflict of interest.

Imagine a potential suspect leading an investigation into a crime they may have committed. The possibilities to cover up, skew, spin, tamper with or otherwise distort both the evidence and the outcome of the investigation are endless.

And to compound this already glaring conflict of interest, it was revealed recently that an alleged “secret deal” was struck by JIT in which any member could bar the release of evidence. With all members of JIT being pro-NATO and decidedly arrayed against Moscow, such a “deal” could prevent crucial evidence from being revealed that would effect an otherwise distorted conclusion drawn by the investigators aimed specifically at advancing their greater political agenda in Eastern Europe. Had Malaysia been a member of JIT, the ability of other members to withhold evidence would have been greatly diminished and it is likely such a bizarre deal would not have been conceivable, real or imaged, in the first place.
First appeared: http://journal-neo.org/2014/11/28/mh17-malaysia-s-barring-from-investigation-reeks-of-cover-up/

^^ http://journal-neo.org/2014/11/28/mh17-malaysia-s-barring-from-investigation-reeks-of-cover-up/

usa controlled ukraine shot down the mh17. usa and nato blamed it on russia. russia is destroying the last shreds of the $usfrn petro-dollar. the petro-dollar is virtually created out of thin air by the $trillions giving the zionist puppet masters virtually and literally unlimited purchasing power. "follow the money" the wire tv show.

 

[Elmer Bud]

G`day I

Malaysia held a War Crimes Trial .
Dubya , Cheney , Rumsfeld and Benji Netanyahu all convicted of War Crimes related to the Gulf War 2 .

No surprise the Cabal didn`t include them in the investigation ??

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[geneva_sativa]

" and everyone sees what's taking place . . . not a page in history " - Bob Marley

now that there is not much investigative or independent journalists ( at least not in MSM ), too many people fooled, never even know,

but a secret kept hidden for hundred years, is revealed in an instant

 

[stoned-trout]

I don't trust any government including my own....

 

[idiit]

Russian TV Documentary Claims to Identify Shooter Who Downed Malaysian Airliner MH17 on July 17th

Interest in the Western world to investigate the ‘accident’ happening to the Malaysian airliner disappeared immediately after Russia gave the world community irrefutable documentary evidence that our country is not in any way involved in this tragedy, and that most of the facts indicate that what brought down the Boeing 777 was the Ukrainian Air Force.

Malaysian Boeing 777, MH17, according to our data, was shot by Su-25, hull number 08, which was piloted by Lt. Col. Ukrainian Air Force Dmytro Yakatsuts, who from July 18 to this day is in the U[nited] A[rab] E[mirates]. The Kiev center manager, Anna Petrenko, unexpectedly went on vacation on the morning of July 18th, from which she did not come back.

This documentary identifies for the first time the 299th squadron of the Air Force of Ukraine, a fighter-jet Su-25, hull numbers 06,07,08 and 38, which, contrary to the statement of the General Staff of Ukraine, was indeed in the air there on 17 July 2014 [the date of shoot-down].

NOTE from Eric Zuesse: The above account is consistent with previous news-reports that I have published about the shoot-down of this plane, such as one and two and three and four and five and six. (Especially see # “four” there.)

^ red highlighted are links to more evidence. go to the linked article for the links to work.

As the last two of these six links show, the Ukrainian Government controls the official ‘investigation’ of this shoot-down.

It’s more than a “smoking gun” here; it’s astounding proof, or, as Haisenko appropriately said in his headline, “Shocking.” It alone is proof beyond a reasonable doubt, this constituting the strictest of all legal standards of proof. After Haisenko’s article was published, this shoot-down case was, essentially, closed.

http://rinf.com/alt-news/editorials...ter-downed-malaysian-airliner-mh17-july-17th/