Lucas VS. Advanced Nutrients

[MileHighGuy]

ive got to stop here and say that actually a plant will utilize nutrients the same reguardless of the source. for example nitrogen is nitrogen no matter where is comes from.

I get the lab environment. But I'm not arguing environment, I'm talking soil and bottles.

Here. Again, I'll use actual information. Above you say that nitrogen is Nitrogen.... Now you know that isn't true.... and please let's keep it coming!

Here is an article about the different types of Nitrogen. I love the title... Nitrogen: All Forms Are Not Equal
http://www.greenhouse.cornell.edu/crops/factsheets/nitrogen_form.pdf'

Now, you can guess to exactly what your plant wants and when, or you can let the rhizosphere handle it for you.... But here is where the problem is.

Notice in the article they talk about the PH effect of Nitrogen absorption? So when the soil handles itself, it also handles the PH just perfectly by balancing the whole process and how it actually utilizes the different types of Nitrogen available to it.

Why would I want to confuse the system and add more Nitrogen in any combination of the three types? I'd be guessing at best and so would the different profiles of the different nutrient companies. Your plant will do fine with just one type of nitrogen. That's just not my style. I like the plants to do their thing.... and this process works from all across the board on all my plants. Because I do grow a ton of food and again, I'm not convinced that nitrogen is nitrogen.

For another argument above the scale of the indoor gardens we have, take a look further down the above article and see how we are polluting the environment with nitrogen fertilizers. And there isn't a reason to in my opinion.

 

[FOE20]

Plants need the essential elements and they don't care where they come from. This applies both to bottles and the OT conversation here.

Im with sifted and Homebrewer....and Jbonez as well...so now theres a few that are trying to reason about this..
Pics dont lie or elaborate I showed veg cause if you cant dial a veg, flowers are pointless.....
sorry but topic is to off track IMO..should be organic-TLO based forum now...
Hydroponics is feeding..Soil and watering a amended mix is not and its very intuitive as well...same as it is in Hydro when knowledge is applied...we dont feed soils we water them...we "feed" using hydroponic techniques that have been avail for quite a few 1000 yrs...nothing new or unfamiliar at all here...
gl and keep rollin
FOE20

 

[Jbonez]

I get the lab environment. But I'm not arguing environment, I'm talking soil and bottles.

Here. Again, I'll use actual information. Above you say that nitrogen is Nitrogen.... Now you know that isn't true.... and please let's keep it coming!

Here is an article about the different types of Nitrogen. I love the title... Nitrogen: All Forms Are Not Equal
http://www.greenhouse.cornell.edu/crops/factsheets/nitrogen_form.pdf'

Now, you can guess to exactly what your plant wants and when, or you can let the rhizosphere handle it for you.... But here is where the problem is.

Notice in the article they talk about the PH effect of Nitrogen absorption? So when the soil handles itself, it also handles the PH just perfectly by balancing the whole process and how it actually utilizes the different types of Nitrogen available to it.

Why would I want to confuse the system and add more Nitrogen in any combination of the three types? I'd be guessing at best and so would the different profiles of the different nutrient companies. Your plant will do fine with just one type of nitrogen. That's just not my style. I like the plants to do their thing.... and this process works from all across the board on all my plants. Because I do grow a ton of food and again, I'm not convinced that nitrogen is nitrogen.

For another argument above the scale of the indoor gardens we have, take a look further down the above article and see how we are polluting the environment with nitrogen fertilizers. And there isn't a reason to in my opinion.

Ok, using "polluting the environment with nitrogen fertz" is nothing more than a strawman...

If that is part of your reasoning for convincing us that organics is superior, well Im sorry but that is just bullshit.. You dont give 329 fucks about the environment outside of your control.. Neither do I.. Im sure youre a responsible citizen, but I doubt youre volunteering to pick up trash on the side of the road..

And yes, we are aware of the types of N.. What we are saying is that the molecular composition of the nutrients we are using, is in fact the exact same as the nutrients you are using.. The only differences I see in the contrast are chelation processes... nothing more.

You cant argue this.. Its objective fact.

Which means the only thing contributing to your superior organic product is "inert" ingredients, like fecal matter and castings..

Makes no sense..

If you are advocating that Organic tastes better because mother nature does it better, thats bullshit too, we as humans, who by the way have created life in lab and decoded our own genome, are more than capable of growing plants better than mother nature ever could...

If you can refute this, then I can no longer continue with this conversation..

 

[Toadstools]

AN is overpriced hype crap

 

[MileHighGuy]

Ok, using "polluting the environment with nitrogen fertz" is nothing more than a strawman...

If that is part of your reasoning for convincing us that organics is superior, well Im sorry but that is just bullshit.. You dont give 329 fucks about the environment outside of your control.. Neither do I.. Im sure youre a responsible citizen, but I doubt youre volunteering to pick up trash on the side of the road..

Wasn't my argument... just icing on the cake. And for the record, I give way more than 329 Fucks about the environment. I do pick up trash, I do whatever I can.... especially when It doesn't require me going out of my way to make a difference. All I have to do is choose organic and local... Food and Buds. I don't drink bottled water and a million other things that you wouldn't think I care about, but I do... and others do to.

And yes, we are aware of the types of N.. What we are saying is that the molecular composition of the nutrients we are using, is in fact the exact same as the nutrients you are using.. The only differences I see in the contrast are chelation processes... nothing more.

You cant argue this.. Its objective fact.

Maybe so. But I can also take the nutrients from a steak, break it down and make a pill out of it, I'll still want the steak! Doesn't mean it's better just because you bypass the natural method of delivery.

Objective fact is that there are two different delivery methods.

Chelated Nutrients are a Waste of Money, and they also fuck with the environment.

Let's take the quality argument completely out of the picture. (Though I will say, that I am relating this to more than cannabis in my daily practice and without a doubt... the heirloom seeds I grow in an organic soil are MUCH tastier and MUCH more nutrient dense.)

If you can grow just as quality as the chemi buds with a more affordable and locally sourced ingredient... then why not do it? You can save money, save time mixing shit together, save the environment and you can just keep re-using the same soil over and over again.

To me - if all things are equal with both "Nutrients" why on earth would we pick the bottles.

Which means the only thing contributing to your superior organic product is "inert" ingredients, like fecal matter and castings..

Makes no sense..

If you are advocating that Organic tastes better because mother nature does it better, thats bullshit too, we as humans, who by the way have created life in lab and decoded our own genome, are more than capable of growing plants better than mother nature ever could...

If you can refute this, then I can no longer continue with this conversation..

Just because Worm Castings are Inert in your mind, doesn't make it so. They are full of sequestered nutrients.

Here is an example of Real Inert Ingredients.

Wet Betty by Advanced Nutrients:

0.06% Saponin
0.15% Yucca Extract
1.75% Non-Ionic Surfactant
99.79% Inert Ingredients <--- WATER. Why don't they just say so!

I can 4 Liters for $109.00

Or I can mix up some Aloe Juice.

4 Liters of Pure Organic Aloe Vera Juice with a higher saponin content and better overall product with more uses = $6.00

That is $103.00 LESS cost than that crap in the Advanced Nutrient Bottle.

Plus Aloe Juice can be used as a Cloning gel as it contains salicylic acid like willow root or aspirin..... Oh and you can use it for you and your pets too! Try that with the Bottled Overpriced Junk.

The entirety of all ingredients for Living Organic soil could be less than the cost of the Medium you use in Bottled programs. Let alone buying the Nutrients again and again. Those expensive bags of Pro-Mix are such a rip-off I can't get over it and LOWER quality than you can make on your own.


So then JBonez, Foe20, HomeBrewer, Sifted....

If the quality is the same, but the effort and prices are not...

Why choose the more challenging and more expensive path?

I really think that organics is confusing to many out there and it is just easier to pay out the ass for a bottle.... but not once you learn!

JBonez might be spending way less, as it seems he is into the do it yourself route... If I were adamant about chem grows, I would only go the cheapest route, as they are all the same ingredients.

 

[MileHighGuy]

Ok, using "polluting the environment with nitrogen fertz" is nothing more than a strawman...

If that is part of your reasoning for convincing us that organics is superior, well Im sorry but that is just bullshit.. You dont give 329 fucks about the environment outside of your control.. Neither do I.. Im sure youre a responsible citizen, but I doubt youre volunteering to pick up trash on the side of the road..

Wasn't my argument... just icing on the cake. And for the record, I give way more than 329 Fucks about the environment. I do pick up trash, I do whatever I can.... especially when It doesn't require me going out of my way to make a difference. All I have to do is choose organic and local... Food and Buds. I don't drink bottled water and a million other things that you wouldn't think I care about, but I do... and others do to.

And yes, we are aware of the types of N.. What we are saying is that the molecular composition of the nutrients we are using, is in fact the exact same as the nutrients you are using.. The only differences I see in the contrast are chelation processes... nothing more.

You cant argue this.. Its objective fact.

Maybe so. But I can also take the nutrients from a steak, break it down and make a pill out of it, I'll still want the steak! Doesn't mean it's better just because you bypass the natural method of delivery.

Objective fact is that there are two different delivery methods.

Chelated Nutrients are a Waste of Money, and they also fuck with the environment.

Let's take the quality argument completely out of the picture. (Though I will say, that I am relating this to more than cannabis in my daily practice and without a doubt... the heirloom seeds I grow in an organic soil are MUCH tastier and MUCH more nutrient dense.)

If you can grow just as quality as the chemi buds with a more affordable and locally sourced ingredient... then why not do it? You can save money, save time mixing shit together, save the environment and you can just keep re-using the same soil over and over again.

To me - if all things are equal with both "Nutrients" why on earth would we pick the bottles.

Which means the only thing contributing to your superior organic product is "inert" ingredients, like fecal matter and castings..

Makes no sense..

If you are advocating that Organic tastes better because mother nature does it better, thats bullshit too, we as humans, who by the way have created life in lab and decoded our own genome, are more than capable of growing plants better than mother nature ever could...

If you can refute this, then I can no longer continue with this conversation..

Just because Worm Castings are Inert in your mind, doesn't make it so. They are full of sequestered nutrients.

Here is an example of Real Inert Ingredients.

Wet Betty by Advanced Nutrients:

0.06% Saponin
0.15% Yucca Extract
1.75% Non-Ionic Surfactant
99.79% Inert Ingredients <--- WATER. Why don't they just say so!

I can purchase 4 Liters for $109.00

Or I can mix up some Aloe Juice.

4 Liters of Pure Organic Aloe Vera Juice with a higher saponin content and better overall product with more uses = $6.00

That is $103.00 LESS cost than that crap in the Advanced Nutrient Bottle.

Plus Aloe Juice can be used as a Cloning gel as it contains salicylic acid like willow root or aspirin..... Oh and you can use it for you and your pets too! Try that with the Bottled Overpriced Junk.

The entirety of all ingredients for Living Organic soil could be less than the cost of the Medium you use in Bottled programs. Let alone buying the Nutrients again and again. Those expensive bags of Pro-Mix are such a rip-off I can't get over it and LOWER quality than you can make on your own.


So then JBonez, Foe20, HomeBrewer, Sifted....

If the quality is the same, but the effort and prices are not...

Why choose the more challenging and more expensive path?

I really think that organics is confusing to many out there and it is just easier to pay out the ass for a bottle.... but not once you learn!

JBonez might be spending way less, as it seems he is into the do it yourself route... If I were adamant about chem grows, I would only go the cheapest route, as they are all the same ingredients.

 

[MileHighGuy]

I feel like I should add this.

Those that love their bottles and Know their shit well.... Keep on keeping on.

If you've had the knowledge and decided against it, that's fine.

For many that read this thread that I started, I feel they will be looking for information about various ways to grow plants.... especially between Advanced and Lucas... If I can get just one undecided person to take a look at organics because he/she never knew how to do it... or didn't know where to get the information... then all of this is worth it.

Soon enough I'll let my old thread get back to it's old ways.... But for now. I personally feel better that I at least shared my feelings on here, considering it is my Original Post that started this whole BS thread.

I for one would have saved thousands of dollars and started with organics if I only knew how when I first started. With all the myths out there perpetuated by the industry I would have thought that you HAD to grow with bottles... boy was I wrong.

 

[FlowerFarmer]

If you can grow just as quality as the chemi buds with a more affordable and locally sourced ingredient... then why not do it? You can save money, save time mixing shit together, save the environment and you can just keep re-using the same soil over and over again.

To me - if all things are equal with both "Nutrients" why on earth would we pick the bottles.

The answer is simple. Because not all of us want to use DIRT.

Although I'm playing around in coco right now, nothing comes close to the cleanliness and simplicity of full on hydroponics in my opinion.

I grew in hydro in an apartment for years. I ran a medium-less DWC setup where my plant was merely supported by a neoprene insert and all root growth occurred in my aerated solution of refined minerals.

I wasn't out sourcing organic amendments, I wasn't hauling dirt into an apartment, I wasn't making a mess. I wasn't on my knees fucking around mixing dirt and transplanting plants. I simply popped a plant into a water culture system and gave it the cheap fertilizer that it required.

Maxibloom + water = done..simple. I'm not even fucking with hydroton or any media for that matter. System got topped automatically with fresh water. The only input required on my end was to watch and occasionally add more refined minerals to achieve my target EC.

As opposed to this:
1. Sphagnum Peat Moss - $24 for two 3.5 Cubic Foot Bails
2. Large Bag of Vermiworm Fresh California Red Wiggler Worm Castings- $29
3. Live Worms and EWC with Compost in a 5 gallon bucket from the local worm guy $50
4. Fresh top soil from a friends organic garden just full of good stuff. Free
5. Local 1.5 year old compost from mainly leaves, grass and sticks. Free
6. Big Bag of Coco- Croutons $10.00
7. Big Bag of Vermiculite - $10.00
8. Ancient Forest – Had this around my house NOT USING THIS. DECIDED ON LOCAL FOREST DUFF
9. Powdered Bentonite - $10
10. Ground Oyster Shell - $10
11. Ground Gypsum - $15
12. Crab Shell Meal - $30 25lbs
13. Kelp Meal - $10
14. N Bat Guano – Had this already
15. Fish Bone Meal - $10
16. Sul-Po-Mag - $12
17. Neem Seed Meal - $25
18. Alfalfa Meal - $12
19. Bag of Cowboy Charcoal - $15
20. Bag of “HydroLite” Zeolite Silica type Material Similar to Perlite for Aeration. $30


^ some may be.. but I'm not interested in all that. I'd rather just give my plants the refined minerals that they need and can uptake immediately. and at ~$1-3 per 50 gallon of nutrient I really cant lose. If I was growing outside I'd likely grow in dirt. If I'm growing indoors in a man-made environment i'd rather use hydroponics and leave the dirt outside.


My friends, in a blind taste test have no idea what is organic or what is not. They often claim that the maxibloom grown shit is that smooth organic stuff that they thought they grew.


just my 2c.
I don't like transplanting/potting. I'm able to achieve that (or lack there of) with hydroponics.. Cant do that in dirt.



PS - that "organic" bat guano you organic guys all use is full of urine, cockroach carcass, and high concentrations of nitrates. Eww...

 

[MileHighGuy]

The answer is simple. Because not all of us want to use DIRT.

Although I'm playing around in coco right now, nothing comes close to the cleanliness and simplicity of full on hydroponics in my opinion.

I grew in hydro in an apartment for years. I ran a medium-less DWC setup where my plant was merely supported by a neoprene insert and all root growth occurred in my aerated solution of refined minerals.

I wasn't out sourcing organic amendments, I wasn't hauling dirt into an apartment, I wasn't making a mess. I wasn't on my knees fucking around mixing dirt and transplanting plants. I simply popped a plant into a water culture system and gave it the cheap fertilizer that it required.

Maxibloom + water = done..simple. I'm not even fucking with hydroton or any media for that matter. System got topped automatically with fresh water. The only input required on my end was to watch and occasionally add more refined minerals to achieve my target EC.

As opposed to this:
1. Sphagnum Peat Moss - $24 for two 3.5 Cubic Foot Bails
2. Large Bag of Vermiworm Fresh California Red Wiggler Worm Castings- $29
3. Live Worms and EWC with Compost in a 5 gallon bucket from the local worm guy $50
4. Fresh top soil from a friends organic garden just full of good stuff. Free
5. Local 1.5 year old compost from mainly leaves, grass and sticks. Free
6. Big Bag of Coco- Croutons $10.00
7. Big Bag of Vermiculite - $10.00
8. Ancient Forest – Had this around my house NOT USING THIS. DECIDED ON LOCAL FOREST DUFF
9. Powdered Bentonite - $10
10. Ground Oyster Shell - $10
11. Ground Gypsum - $15
12. Crab Shell Meal - $30 25lbs
13. Kelp Meal - $10
14. N Bat Guano – Had this already
15. Fish Bone Meal - $10
16. Sul-Po-Mag - $12
17. Neem Seed Meal - $25
18. Alfalfa Meal - $12
19. Bag of Cowboy Charcoal - $15
20. Bag of “HydroLite” Zeolite Silica type Material Similar to Perlite for Aeration. $30


^ some may be.. but I'm not interested in all that. I'd rather just give my plants the refined minerals that they need and can uptake immediately. and at ~$1-3 per 50 gallon of nutrient I really cant lose. If I was growing outside I'd likely grow in dirt. If I'm growing indoors in a man-made environment i'd rather use hydroponics and leave the dirt outside.


My friends, in a blind taste test have no idea what is organic or what is not. They often claim that the maxibloom grown shit is that smooth organic stuff that they thought they grew.


just my 2c.
I don't like transplanting/potting. I'm able to achieve that (or lack there of) with hydroponics.. Cant do that in dirt.



PS - that "organic" bat guano you organic guys all use is full of urine, cockroach carcass, and high concentrations of nitrates. Eww...

Damn. Very good answer.

I seem to forget sometimes that I have a Huge Workshop, live in the middle of nowhere and have many of these ingredients here locally.

The laundry list of items you snagged from my Organic grow log is much more than I think is necessary, but I wanted to really make something unique since after the soil is built, I'll be keeping it around forever.

All things being equal, I'd probably still find a way to mix up a soil batch... but the recipe I posted a few pages back for $35 could easily be mixed in some small space.... But yeah, In an apartment, I could see just buying some bottles and calling it good.

Thanks for lifting my tunnel vision...

So now... how bout this.

If you had all the space in the world, AND you... haha Jk Guys.

I also tend to forget that most of the people on here don't grow their own food.... so soil is a big part of my life.

 

[MileHighGuy]

@ Flower Farmer -

This was the recipe I was using for a price comparison...

$10.00 1 Bale of Alaska or Premier Sphagnum Peat Moss (3.8 Cu Ft.) This is higher Quality than buying Pro-Mix and way cheaper.
$5.00 (Should be free if you make your own) Quality Local Compost – Best Quality you can get. 3-4 Cubic Feet
$5.00 Lava Rock from the same Nursery that has aged compost. 3-4 Cubic Feet
$3.00 3 Gallons of Rock Dust or 4 cups per yard at $.60 Per pound that’s CHEAP!
½ Cup per Cubic Foot for the amendment listed below.
$2.00 2lbs of Crab Meal would be more than enough.
$4.50 Kelp Meal
$6.00 Neem Cake (Organic Ahimsa)
Worm Castings – Home Made = Free or almost free.

 

[siftedunity]

tbh i very much doubt you could outyield a hydro grow with just soil...quality is always gonna be subjective so thats not really something you can test for. theres nothing wrong with your views but your way isnt the right way - its just a way of doing it.

i could probs even do a coco grow on quite a low budget a yield better than soil. it makes me laugh with AN everyone picks on them and bring up their expensive products. some are dirt cheap compeared to the return... but haters gonna hate.. what can you do?

 

[FlowerFarmer]

Different strokes...

I'm not bashing the organic route at all. Its a great way to grow.. and will ultimately try a local "super soil" recipe that gets passed around my parts (fed water only). With blumats doing the plain watering... it is a bit tempting.


..just not for every situation presented to us indoor gardeners.

The funny thing about AN.. a lot of the people bitching about the price (my friends).. are the same people who continue to buy it. Doesnt make much sense to me. Either use it and be happy... or opt for something else. They think they are going to have an edge up on the competition or something despite having shown them otherwise.

Its not Lucas vs. AN. (as lucas formula can be achieved with AN Micro and Bloom all the same) and Sensibloom is a great affordable base nute.
Its a simple regime of base nutes vs. assload of additives.

The argument should really be :
BASE Nutes vs. everything else you don't really need.


AN Base only vs. GH full line with all of their suggested additives. AN would be cheaper. See what I mean? If you really start looking at every manufacturers suggested line up and dosages.. they are all taxed out hype. AN just became popular for it with large claims, wild graphics, fat guys, girls, and hummers.

Some growers just can't get enough of it

 

[skull and roses]

Different strokes...

I'm not bashing the organic route at all. Its a great way to grow.. and will ultimately try a local "super soil" recipe that gets passed around my parts (fed water only). With blumats doing the plain watering... it is a bit tempting.


..just not for every situation presented to us indoor gardeners.

The funny thing about AN.. a lot of the people bitching about the price (my friends).. are the same people who continue to buy it. Doesnt make much sense to me. Either use it and be happy... or opt for something else. They think they are going to have an edge up on the competition or something despite having shown them otherwise.

Its not Lucas vs. AN. (as lucas formula can be achieved with AN Micro and Bloom all the same) and Sensibloom is a great affordable base nute.
Its a simple regime of base nutes vs. assload of additives.

The argument should really be :
BASE Nutes vs. everything else you don't really need.


AN Base only vs. GH full line with all of their suggested additives. AN would be cheaper. See what I mean? If you really start looking at every manufacturers suggested line up and dosages.. they are all taxed out hype. AN just became popular for it with large claims, wild graphics, fat guys, girls, and hummers.

Some growers just can't get enough of it
View Image

Very well said! The funny thing about the AN label thing is that their best product is probably sensi a and b...very plain labeled. The other products like the ridiculous wet Betty are seriou marketing crap.

 

[siftedunity]

got to agree with both those people..^^

ive used sensi a and b for a while now i like it alot. its cheap as chips. would i get connoseur for about 10x the amount? fuck that!

 

[Stonefree69]

Maybe so. But I can also take the nutrients from a steak, break it down and make a pill out of it, I'll still want the steak! Doesn't mean it's better just because you bypass the natural method of delivery.

One thing organics has got going for it even when using chem based nutes is Heisenberg tea. It is both a preventative and cure for many cases of root rot, even where chlorine and H202 fail. Treating/preventing cyanobacteria is one example. Another is you can get away with higher res temps using it.

 

[MileHighGuy]

@ FLower - Super Soil is another cannabis based hype. Doesn't make a ton of good horticulture sense.

Try the mix I posted here a few times, water only, I think you would be Really Really stoked on it.

Or at least avoid the bagged soil as recommended by Sub-Cool and super soil following....

and before you do anything with an organic soil...

Come hang out over in the Recycled Living soil thread to get some straight information before starting.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=241964

What I'm learning through growing in Soil, hydro... bottles organics... all of it... is that there is WAY to much BS out there and people are willing to sell it to you for a premium.

Many confusing thoughts that only come from cannabis growers too... like Flushing... which does absolutely nothing to the end product... etc. etc.

Flavor Enhancers... Sugars Etc. are a complete Joke....

Most of the Mycorrhizae products have all the wrong species that won't work with annual plants like cannabis anyways....

Many of the Cal/Mg Issues are problems stemming from the Base Nutrients themselves... Yada Yada.

I just keep on learning and shit just keeps getting better.

Having a ton of fun talking with all of you Bottled Nutrient guys and would really hope that if any of you ever decide to do a soil run... you will PM me at let me ride along and maybe even help. haha

Peace and Much Love from the other side of the tracks.

 

[MileHighGuy]

One thing organics has got going for it even when using chem based nutes is Heisenberg tea. It is both a preventative and cure for many cases of root rot, even where chlorine and H202 fail. Treating/preventing cyanobacteria is one example. Another is you can get away with higher res temps using it.

Heisenberg tea is a complete Joke.

Visit www.microbeorganics.com for the real deal.

Ancient Forest - Alaska Magic - all the same..... just sphagnum peat moss... Good for a tea, but don't waste your money on Ancient forest.

Most of the Myco products that guy recommends are not usable for cannabis... and if they were... It is 100% pointless to apply any Myccorhizae to a nutrient tea while brewing... This Heisenberg really needs to learn a lot about Compost tea. The organics section here has much better information that wherever Hiesenberg is at.

If you really want to talk about it... I'll break it down with sources, videos under the microscope and other information that has proven this to be true.

So for those organically interested growers.... don't go get all heisenberg on me now.

Just go to the Organics forum here on icmag and go to the Sticky on compost tea.

You can also talk to CTguy or MicrobeMan the owner of www.microbeorganics.com

 

[siftedunity]

one question, when you titled the thread lucas vs advanced, what did you actually mean?

 

[MileHighGuy]

one question, when you titled the thread lucas vs advanced, what did you actually mean?

Well at the time, I had a much more limited knowledge of growing.

A friend of mine purchased most of the AN line that was available at the time of original post.... I wanted to run the lucas formula as read about on here in the KISS forum.

The guy at the grow shop was my friends only source of information. Mine was on here.... Imagine what happened, his information was completely different than mine.

AN would give you 2 Grams per watt... no problem... shits the bomb etc. this guy and that guy are big time growers.... they use it!

Mine was... well, over here it says this lucas formula is cheap and it's the shit!

haha

I ended up naming it because I personally was going to compare the Advanced Nutrients that we had at the time.... with the Lucas Formula General Hydroponics... I think at that time I was running the Maxi Powder at 7 Grams or something like that.... but soon after I started using the Flora Nova Bloom cause I hated mixing the powdered shit.

I guess to answer your question direct I meant this:

Grow a couple plants with Advanced Nutrients main line and additives. Compare that to a couple of plants grown with General Hydroponics Maxi-Bloom and some koolbloom.

Problem was I didn't get approval for the Post for a few weeks or longer and I had already moved on.

 

[Stonefree69]

Heisenberg tea is a complete Joke.

Visit www.microbeorganics.com for the real deal.

Ancient Forest - Alaska Magic - all the same..... just sphagnum peat moss... Good for a tea, but don't waste your money on Ancient forest.

Most of the Myco products that guy recommends are not usable for cannabis... and if they were... It is 100% pointless to apply any Myccorhizae to a nutrient tea while brewing... This Heisenberg really needs to learn a lot about Compost tea. The organics section here has much better information that wherever Hiesenberg is at.

If you really want to talk about it... I'll break it down with sources, videos under the microscope and other information that has proven this to be true.

So for those organically interested growers.... don't go get all heisenberg on me now.

Just go to the Organics forum here on icmag and go to the Sticky on compost tea.

You can also talk to CTguy or MicrobeMan the owner of www.microbeorganics.com

I think Microbeman recommended something like Mycos - Mycorrhizal Inoculant or MycoApply Soluble MAXX. I had that over MycoGrow. Also Mycos has to establish itself in media/root system and can take weeks. Heisenberg says "It is very useful to use bennies in soil, but in hydro all the little benefits you get from them are negligible. When it comes to root disease, bennies are a magic bullet."

Yeah CTguy: "You want endo-mycorrhizae for cannabis, not ecto."