Lucas VS. Advanced Nutrients

[FOE20]

wanted to add that hydroponics is feeding plants by nutrients solutions stead of using soil...is that clear tho?...
methods/mediums can vary...maybe Im not understanding whats being asked?...

Tribal..maybe its both?...lol...sorry you set me up for that..heh....and yea that didnt fit...heh...I feed very low and use the idea of Less is More...but considering custom soil mixes I don't feel this is that much work either...and theres less chance of bugs and all that jazz...its more simple than I make it out to be?...heh....def more simple than AN's guides...or veg wise its relative to GH 3 part...Bloom I gata add my own twist..
FOE20

 

[Bio boy]

amu y 1 tested lucas gh vs lucas advance

 

[gladstoned]

All this AN bashing and shit talking. I thought I finally found a thread that was going to show something.
I thought for sure being 15 pages long someone started the actual side by side comparison.
Oh well.

I had to drop a ton of cash on my full line of AN. If my results would have been shit, I know I would be jumping forum to forum busting up every single AN thread online. roflmao. Thank God I had great results.

 

[MileHighGuy]

After Starting this thread Way too long ago... I never had a fair chance to compare the two side by side.

That being said... I have had time to convert from Bottled Nutrients to Organic Soil and the Results are Fucking Phenomenal.

I'm growing the best Weed I ever had and everyone who tastes it can tell the difference... Hell Just smelling it alone would convert most of you.

I HATE seeing this thread continue to rumble around with my name attached to it.

I would NEVER suggest either formula to ANYONE now that I know better.

Make a simple soil mix and use just water, you will never look back.

Anyone Really Interested in Growing for less money and at a much higher quality... I would love to turn this forum into a migration station for Ditching ALL bottled Nutrients and starting organics.

If you are serious and not just curious.... Message me... or just post right here and let's see If we can't get you on the right path before you waste years like I did.

Here are some Random photo's

View attachment 201380

View attachment 199547

Anyone? Or am I completely insane posting Organics information in here... (Hey it's my thread)

 

[medmaker420]

I have ran Lucas with GH and AN
both worked fine

run what you brung

but totally agree

ORGANIC MIXES are the way to grow

ditch the bottles

 

[Homebrewer]

After Starting this thread Way too long ago... I never had a fair chance to compare the two side by side.

That being said... I have had time to convert from Bottled Nutrients to Organic Soil and the Results are Fucking Phenomenal.

I'm growing the best Weed I ever had and everyone who tastes it can tell the difference... Hell Just smelling it alone would convert most of you.

I HATE seeing this thread continue to rumble around with my name attached to it.

I would NEVER suggest either formula to ANYONE now that I know better.

Make a simple soil mix and use just water, you will never look back.

Anyone Really Interested in Growing for less money and at a much higher quality... I would love to turn this forum into a migration station for Ditching ALL bottled Nutrients and starting organics.

If you are serious and not just curious.... Message me... or just post right here and let's see If we can't get you on the right path before you waste years like I did.

Here are some Random photo's

View attachment 201380

View attachment 199547

Anyone? Or am I completely insane posting Organics information in here... (Hey it's my thread)

How much is your soil mix costing you per pot and how many gallons of soil are you using per plant?

 

[MileHighGuy]

How much is your soil mix costing you per pot and how many gallons of soil are you using per plant?

My Mix is comprised of many things that I have from growing other plants… But let’s just start a Fresh Batch with all the math included.
$10.00 1 Bale of Alaska or Premier Sphagnum Peat Moss (3.8 Cu Ft.) This is higher Quality than buying Pro-Mix and way cheaper.
$5.00 (Should be free if you make your own) Quality Local Compost – Best Quality you can get. 3-4 Cubic Feet
$5.00 Lava Rock from the same Nursery that has aged compost. 3-4 Cubic Feet
$3.00 3 Gallons of Rock Dust or 4 cups per yard at $.60 Per pound that’s CHEAP!
½ Cup per Cubic Foot for the amendment listed below.
$2.00 2lbs of Crab Meal would be more than enough.
$4.50 Kelp Meal
$6.00 Neem Cake (Organic Ahimsa)
Worm Castings – Home Made = Free or almost free.
If you have to buy them I get 10 Gallons of really good quality for $34.00 and that is for top dressing the top 1-2” of soil after I fill the containers.

Recipe thanks to ClackamasCootz

Total Price without Earthworm Castings - $35.50 for almost 100 Gallons
If you have to ship these items, most can be purchased with free shipping on ebay or with minimal shipping ordered all at once at KIS organics dot com

This mix would about 100 Gallons depending on exact Ratios.
Here is the best part.
Water only feedings and then when you’re done, you just cut the base of the plant off and put a new clone or seed right into the same container without doing anywork at all… you don’t throw anything away and now the price of your second grow is free…. Because the way the Nutrient companies would have us do this is to throw all the soil away and start all over again… but in a living soil, you can run the same soil again and again with minimal input.

On my organic grow I am experimenting with MANY alternate inputs that take time and money… but certainly are not required for Excellent results better than any bottled nutrient could ever think of producing.

Main reason here is that we are letting the plant choose when and what it eats as opposed to the Nutrient bottles label.

Pretty Cheap right?

 

[Jbonez]

This thread is essentially.....

Nh4 N vs Nh4 N

Iron edta vs Iron edta

Mg sO4 vs Mg sO4


Its literally pointless.. lol..

just a thought..

 

[MileHighGuy]

This thread is essentially.....

Nh4 N vs Nh4 N

Iron edta vs Iron edta

Mg sO4 vs Mg sO4


Its literally pointless.. lol..

just a thought..

You are correct.

Funny thing is.. there is a difference in price.

Anyways, if you notice... I think Organic soil is where it's at.

 

[Jbonez]

You are correct.

Funny thing is.. there is a difference in price.

Anyways, if you notice... I think Organic soil is where it's at.

I suppose, I ran Organics ragged trying to make my product taste better...

From the essence of my being as a grower, I truly believe that taste is far too subjective to be collectively discerned as factual..

That being said, I believe that taste is 100% influenced by genetics, and my genetics are some pretty heavy hitters to say the least.. I didnt get the taste I was after until I found the genetics known for their taste, aroma and potency..

I think taste is also dependent on the health of the plant.. Low levels of plant stress can equal DAYS of slowed growth in bloom.. Hard to notice but this is why some batches are better than others.. If the plant is grown free of stress from day 1 bloom, then hydro or organic, I think the end product will net identical results..

 

[MileHighGuy]

I suppose, I ran Organics ragged trying to make my product taste better...

From the essence of my being as a grower, I truly believe that taste is far too subjective to be collectively discerned as factual..

That being said, I believe that taste is 100% influenced by genetics, and my genetics are some pretty heavy hitters to say the least.. I didnt get the taste I was after until I found the genetics known for their taste, aroma and potency..

I think taste is also dependent on the health of the plant.. Low levels of plant stress can equal DAYS of slowed growth in bloom.. Hard to notice but this is why some batches are better than others.. If the plant is grown free of stress from day 1 bloom, then hydro or organic, I think the end product will net identical results..

I agree that Genetics are very important.

Next is Terpene production and the amazing smells they produce.

I agree that burning a plant for taste is kinda hard to compare side by side.... but when the smell is stronger the taste always comes through better kinda like with food.

If the plant is grown free of stress from day 1 bloom, then hydro or organic, I think the end product will net identical results..

Soil is the easiest and most cost effective way to get a stress free grow run after run without very little input from the grower... instead of attempting to grow a plant, just let the plant grow.

Anways, just ditching the bottles and the PH pen was a big help to my daily routine.

Jbonez - How did you go organic? I'm just asking because many will say they did... and turns out they were using organic bottles.

 

[Jbonez]

I ran a modified mix of Subys recipe for a year or so.. Great results..

Ive also done the Earth Juice, and GO line up.. All were great..

Problem is, in coco with fertilizer salts, I can push my genetics to their maximum potential, yields, flavor, potency, bag.. are all enhanced by a plant grown in a near perfect environment with exacting nutrient demands met.. You honestly would choose my bud over my organic bud, most do... I run the minimum ppms required for the plant to thrive, nothing more.. Organics requires processes that cannot possibly be observed as finely tuned as the math that goes into mixing my nutrients by the ppm...

what are your thoughts?

 

[MileHighGuy]

I ran a modified mix of Subys recipe for a year or so.. Great results..

Ive also done the Earth Juice, and GO line up.. All were great..

Problem is, in coco with fertilizer salts, I can push my genetics to their maximum potential, yields, flavor, potency, bag.. are all enhanced by a plant grown in a near perfect environment with exacting nutrient demands met.. You honestly would choose my bud over my organic bud, most do... I run the minimum ppms required for the plant to thrive, nothing more.. Organics requires processes that cannot possibly be observed as finely tuned as the math that goes into mixing my nutrients by the ppm...

what are your thoughts?

I like you. I've ran all the same stuff.... Super soil I think is kinda ridiculous.... It doesn't make any sense at all to the rest of the gardening and farming world.

I really wish I could just roll over to your house and see what it do... ya know? haha

Anyways, here is my main problem with the bottled nutrient logic you put forth.

Organics requires processes that cannot possibly be observed as finely tuned as the math that goes into mixing my nutrients by the ppm...

You are only guessing at what the plant wants. No doubt the PPM and PH meter can be very accurate and you can know exactly what is going on in there. Problem being, you aren't the plant and the plant won't grow the same everytime.

Given the environmental changes from season to season, the different grow rooms that people have and the different skill levels there is no way possibly for a bottled grow to be more precise than an organic grow.

With a properly living soil the plant can choose from an overabundance of nutrients and specifically control the rizosphere for bacteria, fungi etc. to properly feed itself.

I would argue that the plant knows MUCH better what it needs and requires at different times than the grower does.

Now, when you get damn good at growing with bottles, I'm sure you can have some great grows.

In my opinion if people put forth the same effort to learn about true organics... and really live it. Then the results would be much better when they compare to what they think really is an organic run.

General Organics... Earth Juice... Just the same as all the other bottled nutrients only they are organic and kelated. These all still Bypass the whole soil food web.

The super-soil is also no comparison for a solid living soil, with the best quality ingredients.

In any case, full utilization of the soil food web can really outperform what most consider to be organics... run in a crappy bagged soil with some poor quality amendments.



Edit: I thought you were using Sub-Cool's Super Soil in the past..... I noticed after reading when I got home that you mentioned Suby's Recipe.... Suby's recipe is really old and doesn't cut it if you ask me. Needs better ingredients and more compost!

 

[BasementGrower]

i just wana say.. if ur going around telling people to switch to something and that ur plants come out great. post some pics.. or something.

and to FOE20.. ya u r right.. when some1 can toss 10 strains in a room.. and have them all looking beautiful with no probs or over ferts or under.. thats skill level .. i think grrowing 1 strain at a time. is simple.. honestly. everytime i do a single strain it bores me to smoke 1 strain.. so i dont do it. i have like 10-20 going in flower at 1 tmie.. with barely any issues whatsoever. i can say .. it took a little to figure out how each plant interacts with the environment and nutes.. but when u spend about 5 hours a day . atleast Reading this forum.. and others.. and researching the strains i grow.. and now i just made a new spreadsheet and man let me tell u . its starting to become a bitch.. but the research.. is what im interested in .. i really believe that i can get some verygood seeds out to the public.. and thats my goal. so im going to be completly different then other seed cos.. watch.. im going to have pictures of mothers .. and fathers.. seeded and not.. actual REAL Flower Times.. saying its Best if Cut Between this and this.. people will know the Genetics.. it came from.. even if it came out of a bag of weed. i will be honest. if i dont know i dont know.. but ive been collecting clones.. and now since i found out my girls cousins friend lives 50 miles from me . and has 40 strains of some LOUD shit.. well i cant wait i almost shit my pants wen i heard this haha .

 

[MileHighGuy]

i just wana say.. if ur going around telling people to switch to something and that ur plants come out great. post some pics.. or something.

and to FOE20.. ya u r right.. when some1 can toss 10 strains in a room.. and have them all looking beautiful with no probs or over ferts or under.. thats skill level .. i think grrowing 1 strain at a time. is simple.. honestly. everytime i do a single strain it bores me to smoke 1 strain.. so i dont do it. i have like 10-20 going in flower at 1 tmie.. with barely any issues whatsoever. i can say .. it took a little to figure out how each plant interacts with the environment and nutes.. but when u spend about 5 hours a day . atleast Reading this forum.. and others.. and researching the strains i grow.. and now i just made a new spreadsheet and man let me tell u . its starting to become a bitch.. but the research.. is what im interested in .. i really believe that i can get some verygood seeds out to the public.. and thats my goal. so im going to be completly different then other seed cos.. watch.. im going to have pictures of mothers .. and fathers.. seeded and not.. actual REAL Flower Times.. saying its Best if Cut Between this and this.. people will know the Genetics.. it came from.. even if it came out of a bag of weed. i will be honest. if i dont know i dont know.. but ive been collecting clones.. and now since i found out my girls cousins friend lives 50 miles from me . and has 40 strains of some LOUD shit.. well i cant wait i almost shit my pants wen i heard this haha .

I did post photo's in my original post.

Plus, you can look at my albums freely.

Hope that Loud shit is awesome man!

 

[Jbonez]

Ok basement grower. Here is 7 strains, dialed... at once.. There are 5 other cuts not pictured next to them..

 

[MileHighGuy]

View attachment 202786

View attachment 203165

View attachment 203166

Damn tapatalk... they aren't in my Album

JBonez - Nice Vert setup! Bet you crush it on yield.

 

[Jbonez]

I like you. I've ran all the same stuff.... Super soil I think is kinda ridiculous.... It doesn't make any sense at all to the rest of the gardening and farming world.

I really wish I could just roll over to your house and see what it do... ya know? haha

Anyways, here is my main problem with the bottled nutrient logic you put forth.



You are only guessing at what the plant wants. No doubt the PPM and PH meter can be very accurate and you can know exactly what is going on in there. Problem being, you aren't the plant and the plant won't grow the same everytime.

Given the environmental changes from season to season, the different grow rooms that people have and the different skill levels there is no way possibly for a bottled grow to be more precise than an organic grow.

With a properly living soil the plant can choose from an overabundance of nutrients and specifically control the rizosphere for bacteria, fungi etc. to properly feed itself.

I would argue that the plant knows MUCH better what it needs and requires at different times than the grower does.

Now, when you get damn good at growing with bottles, I'm sure you can have some great grows.

In my opinion if people put forth the same effort to learn about true organics... and really live it. Then the results would be much better when they compare to what they think really is an organic run.

General Organics... Earth Juice... Just the same as all the other bottled nutrients only they are organic and kelated. These all still Bypass the whole soil food web.

The super-soil is also no comparison for a solid living soil, with the best quality ingredients.

In any case, full utilization of the soil food web can really outperform what most consider to be organics... run in a crappy bagged soil with some poor quality amendments.



Edit: I thought you were using Sub-Cool's Super Soil in the past..... I noticed after reading when I got home that you mentioned Suby's Recipe.... Suby's recipe is really old and doesn't cut it if you ask me. Needs better ingredients and more compost!

Its relatively easy for me to spot another intuitive thinker, so I can merely rebut with the same abstract lack of absolutes to counter your argument.. Problem is, we would be at it for days..

We are good at polishing a turd into gold with words... I can argue your point for Organics just as well as you can, I promise, but its all subjective.. However, the nutrients I am using now are providing me with very real, very objective results... Results I cannot simply turn and look away from, they are that profound.

Organics or Ferts, doesnt personally matter to me, but for quality, efficiency, and yields, I gotta stick with the obvious.. I dont smoke my entire harvest ya know...

And thx, according to the math I am as high as 1.8gpw...

 

[siftedunity]

mile high guy, kudos to you for going organic etc, but in all honesty your plants look as good as mine or jbonez or many others here, definately nothing stands out which would make me switch from bottled to organic.

and as already said, theres plenty of ways to skin a cat. i think if anything the most dangerous thing in this hobby or any all of life is to think your way is the best way and thats that.

i grow coco and i do reasonably well, my plants always look healthy, yield good, the cost isnt that significant but then im not on a budget as such.
i will say that ive not seen many organic grows which out yield bottled/ non organic, and ive got friends who do a great job organic soil but they still yield on the lower end to general hydro.
i think quality-given the plants have the main essentials, is pretty much genetic along with taste etc.
if you grow badly then you will probs grow badly with organic or visa versa

 

[Bio boy]

would do but i am a hydro grower mate