LSD ... any ideas?

[ericcalif]

sad update

sad update

Man, I'm a sad panda today...

Green, I'm going to have to say your warnings to not dismiss RA's were good, I think I"m going to have to go to war with these bastards.

I'm out in the garden today and I'm looking at my lemon haze clone that is growing kinda funny ( single and triple leaflets ) and notice on the soil some funny lil brown dots. Break out the big mag glass and damn, what do I see? A freakin party goin on.



It's about the best I can do with taking a macro shot but, thats a tiny twig I took off the top of the soil. Near as I can tell they're damned RA's.

Immediately sprayed the entire surface with Iso alcohol and killed everything on the surface. Dug down a bit and didn't see anything at all.

So at this point the LSD and Critical Jack are just hanging, the LSD slightly improved and the CJ still doing great. They are by themselves in the HPS tent. Maybe 30 days or so to go. When I chop the LSD I'm going to get into the soil in detail and see if its been RA's all along. Prob the CJ too.

In the other cab with the lemon haze clone, I have a CJ clone, (both small) and had a bagseed girl I've run a few times, she is ready to flower soon. I looked her over good (shes been nice and healthy so far and insists on flowering now) and didn't see any sign on top or down into the soil an inch or so. I isolated her in my middle cab all by herself. The lil one's are just getting going so in the next couple of weeks, Imid drench, transplant into clean soil and then see if I can find some Azamax and Botanigard for an application once each in veg then see if I can't get the microherd going again late in veg for a healthy flower cycle.
Thats my rough plan now, might change.

I don't know that the original reason for this thread, the symptoms the LSD had, is due to these guys. I still see no direct evidence. But for sure RA's are hanging in the farm and if I don't declare war now they will for sure be the issue.

 

[HempKat]

Sorry to hear but it's good you found out now rather then later.

 

[greentrich]

You know, there are times when in the infirmary I'm sure one feels happy when they have a correct diagnosis.

This is not one of those times eric. Fuck those little motherfuckinfriggenfrackenMckrakens!

I'm sorry man. Truly I am. You've battled them before, you know what to do, so I won't try to enlighten you on how to deal with them.

Trends I have noticed that make it easier to diagnose RA's:

-Grower seems to know what they're doing
-Can't diagnose the "weird" problem
-Usually starts with one plant...from a res that feeds all plants the same amount/solution.
-The grower that seems adept to this, has a mag issue. Mag issues is rookie stuff, but if a grower who seems to know the ropes can't solve a Mag issue???? RA's...fo sho.

Declare war eric, get Patton-ish on their ass. These things are becoming an epidemic, it's up to you to stop them

Help us ericcalif, you're our only hope.

 

[DirtDoctor]

Sorry bout your gross root-aphid problem

but:

Runoff was 6.7 so I think i've got the soil where it should be

Where is this coming from??? Optimal pH for cannabis in soil is usually considered to be 5.8-6.5

 

[ericcalif]

You know, there are times when in the infirmary I'm sure one feels happy when they have a correct diagnosis.

This is not one of those times eric. Fuck those little motherfuckinfriggenfrackenMckrakens!

I'm sorry man. Truly I am. You've battled them before, you know what to do, so I won't try to enlighten you on how to deal with them.

Trends I have noticed that make it easier to diagnose RA's:

-Grower seems to know what they're doing
-Can't diagnose the "weird" problem
-Usually starts with one plant...from a res that feeds all plants the same amount/solution.
-The grower that seems adept to this, has a mag issue. Mag issues is rookie stuff, but if a grower who seems to know the ropes can't solve a Mag issue???? RA's...fo sho.

Declare war eric, get Patton-ish on their ass. These things are becoming an epidemic, it's up to you to stop them

Help us ericcalif, you're our only hope.

Hey GT, Thanks bro.
I took some action today and I wouldn't bore you guys with it but it looks like there's a few people peeking in and maybe someone will find something useful. I'm just trying a few things, learning a few, maybe get a little better in the end.

I got a bag of some different soil, one ive run a few times before with good results. It's EB Stone organics. I pulled out the lemon haze clone, (the one from the pics) dumped her out of her home and broke most of the soil away. Dunked her feet into a bucket of 5 ml Imid and 5 ml SM-90 for 10 seconds. Then let her sit in some rainwater that had collected outside while I went through the soil that was in the pot. I didn't see one bug down beneath the top of the soil in her root zone. Of course everything on top was dead from the iso alcohol. She's in a new batch of soil now and looks as happy as before, but no bugs at least in her pot.
I"ve been looking at the other few plants, the LSD and CJ that are in flower, and the other baby. I can't find a single bug on the top of the soil in the flowering tent, the other lil clone has a couple and she's getting transplanted with the same routine as the other and going to spray down their cabinet with iso alcohol and wipe everything down good. It's time to tidy up in there anyhow.
Weird things these RA's... (motherfuckinfriggenfrackenMckr akens!) i went and read on the aphid thread some more and I don't know if there's many many more varieties of them or, if they just take on many different forms according to environment, life cycle, etc. When I had them before they were down in the soil. This time I couldn't see any in the soil, but that pic wasn't even one percent of what I saw on the top this time.
While out on the farm doing this stuff today I remembered I still had the pot with my last lemon haze stump sitting around that I hadn't gotten around to since harvest. I took it outside and dumped it upside down and went through it in detail. I couldn't find one bit of evidence of bugs in the soil.


Rootbound but near as I can tell pretty healthy. Here's a shot from the side through the magnifying glass...

And the bottom...


Pretty healthy looking to me. I couldn't see one live or dead bug, looking like an aphid or anything else for that matter. I didn't examine every last gram of soil, just looked in detail in many places.
The last lemon haze had similar problems to this LSD girl and I was thinking maybe i've had RA's come back longer than this latest discovery but now, i dunno. The mystery continues....

 

[ericcalif]

Sorry bout your gross root-aphid problem

but:


Where is this coming from??? Optimal pH for cannabis in soil is usually considered to be 5.8-6.5

http://www.420magazine.com/gallery/data/500/Nutrient_Chart2.gif

 

[ericcalif]

update

update

It seems that the 2 girls flowering, the LSD and Critical Jack are just rolling along happily in the flowering tent, still no signs of RA's. I spend a few minutes every time looking over the soil and digging around in detail, not even any fliers on sticky traps.


The yellowing and dying fan leaves have practically been nil, the weak leaves along the bottom are more like what I'm used to seeing during the middle of flowering. The flowers are fattening up nicely, they look like they'll be nice nugs.

After the first few heavy doses of CalMag, I've since dropped that back down to just below recommended, a bit under 1/2 teaspoon/gal every other watering. At this point im thinking it was defiecency problem all along though after finding the bugs in the veg cab I won't every rule them out. After these girls are done I'm going to go through their roots in detail and check.

 

[northstate]

Good thread with the amount of people that have had to deal with the devil bug, there is sure a lot of experience diagnosing, treating and punishing them. They made me tear down 4k after limping along chasing phantom C Mag., floppy stem early finish type def. issues. Anyhow, looking at the pics your LSD did seem hungry to me and she started to green up from the top down (N, Mag.) it looks like. They look happy in there so way to keep thinking it out and not move too fast on corrections. GreenT, HK and others good work and discussion. Ericcalif keep it up and after you get the pest really dead gone and done, read some more in the BurnOne's "organics for beginners" thread. I am not implying you are a beginner, just tons of info and people doing great soil/nute mixes, aerated compost teas, and more. Your program seems to be doing great for you and thats whats important in the end. Stay ahead of those little shits! NS

 

[ericcalif]

Good thread with the amount of people that have had to deal with the devil bug, there is sure a lot of experience diagnosing, treating and punishing them. They made me tear down 4k after limping along chasing phantom C Mag., floppy stem early finish type def. issues. Anyhow, looking at the pics your LSD did seem hungry to me and she started to green up from the top down (N, Mag.) it looks like. They look happy in there so way to keep thinking it out and not move too fast on corrections. GreenT, HK and others good work and discussion. Ericcalif keep it up and after you get the pest really dead gone and done, read some more in the BurnOne's "organics for beginners" thread. I am not implying you are a beginner, just tons of info and people doing great soil/nute mixes, aerated compost teas, and more. Your program seems to be doing great for you and thats whats important in the end. Stay ahead of those little shits! NS

NS, thanks dude. No worries about the beginner thing, I am one for sure. The good thing is im old enough to not have an ego that keeps me from being open to learning from more experienced folks.
My goal is to be 100% organic. I read over there quite a bit and hopefully one day I will be.
As of today I still don't see one sign of RA's in the LSD or CJ, I do think I might have lucked out with CalMag. I won't declare them RA-free until I've harvested and gone through the root balls and soil.
Since transplanting and dipping the little cuttings I don't see any sign in there either but that's the area I'm watching the closest.

 

[ericcalif]

update

update

It's been awhile and thought I should post my observations...

It looks like the Cal Mag was the ticket. If flower size is a good indication of the overall health of the plant, this girl is doing really good, these look to be the best buds I've ever grown. The fan leave yellowing/dying has been almost nil, and while the plant still looks lighter green than the Critical Jack, she still seems to be happy. There's been very little claw, all of the upper leaves point up all happy.
Below, the first two are the LSD, the last is the CJ. Sorry for the HPS yellow but I think you can still see the comparison of greeness between the too. I'm showing both because they are in the same environment, and getting about the same nutes/water.



As mentioned above, the first application of Cal Mag was on the high side of recommendations (2 tsp / gal ) and since then they've had the low side ( 1 tsp / gal ) 3 times. About 10 days apart or every 3rd or 4th watering.

I'm really jazzed, glad it wasn't RA's, (even though being nervous that it was got me to find them in the veg cabinet) and I think I may have learned a lesson. Thanks again for everyone's input.

 

[ericcalif]

final update

final update

It looks like the problem all along was low cal or mag. At least cal/mag helped the problem if that wasnt actually it. I dumped the soil after cutting to look for root aphids and didn't see any so that's a relief.
Here's a few shots before cutting, and a cola.



In the end, im pleased and hoping for some enjoyable results.

 

[TheGreenViking]

Good job man. I'm kind of going through what you did. 3 weeks in flower and looking ugly. Anyway, did you say you changed one plant's soil? Like took soil off plant and put roots in new soil?

 

[ericcalif]

Good job man. I'm kind of going through what you did. 3 weeks in flower and looking ugly. Anyway, did you say you changed one plant's soil? Like took soil off plant and put roots in new soil?

Ya, that might have gotten confusing in the posts...

What happened was, while stressing out thinking the LSD had aphids, i was looking at the plants i have in veg and found aphids crawling all over the soil. That plant I took out of the pot, broke away the loose soil, dipped her and her roots in water with Imid and repotted her. So far, so good.

It wasn't the LSD that had them though, and the last post was to report that after I harvested her, i dumped out the soil and looked throughly and couldn't find a single bug.

The strains ive grown in the past have not had this problem, so I think i've learned about the need for cal/mag with some varieties.
Give it a try and see if it helps. If you don't have cal/mag available, epsom salts are supposed to help greatly as well, though they are high in mag with little calcium. But available in drug stores and supermarkets. One tablespoon per gallon seems to be the norm.
Good luck !