i think here is a link to the pdf mm is sharing
http://pubs.usgs.gov/sir/2004/5121/pdf/sir2004-5121.pdf
humus and organic matter
http://pubs.usgs.gov/sir/2004/5121/pdf/sir2004-5121.pdf
humus and organic matter
Living organic soil from start through recycling
- Thread starter Gascanastan
- Start date
- Status
M
MrSterling
Anyone know anything about Stall Dry? It's apparently a pumice product made for horse stalls. Been hearing it tossed around for garden use.
M
MrSterling
Anyone know anything about Stall Dry? It's apparently a pumice product made for horse stalls. Been hearing it tossed around for garden use.
T
Toes.
M
MrSterling
Toes, CC suggested it to me as a replacement for perlite.
T
Toes.
what's wrong with perlite... it's cheap, organic, cheap, locally sourced, cheap.
Mr. Sterling the reason why I ask is... I've been reading a lot about re-minerlization with volcanic rock as a mineral source. Additionally, I've read about rock dust, glacial rock dust, granite dust, quarry dust, quarry rock dust. More recently, I've been reading about ocean water minerals derived from evaporated ocean water. Supposedly, the salt crystallizes away, and the chlorine also. ocean trace
CC, any suggestions on a good mineral source. w/o having to buy 5 different items... or 90 different ones
Mr. Sterling the reason why I ask is... I've been reading a lot about re-minerlization with volcanic rock as a mineral source. Additionally, I've read about rock dust, glacial rock dust, granite dust, quarry dust, quarry rock dust. More recently, I've been reading about ocean water minerals derived from evaporated ocean water. Supposedly, the salt crystallizes away, and the chlorine also. ocean trace
CC, any suggestions on a good mineral source. w/o having to buy 5 different items... or 90 different ones
Toes
There's nothing wrong with Pumice - it's just a huge PITA if you're mixing your own soil and then this material moves around - like collecting on the surface and such.
Pumice is the same price as Perlite at nursery supply houses - about $3.75 per c.f. but with Pumice in order to get that price per c.f. you have to buy the 4 c.f. bags and I have never, ever bought one that didn't get ripped, spilling Perlite all over and it's nearly impossible to sweep up completely - like I said it's a PITA! LOL
But there's nothing 'wrong' with it but there are probably several good reasons to use Pumice over Perlite and that has to do with the physical structure of the pieces.
Mineral Sources:
How about this?
1x Azomite (full range of minerals for the most part)
1x Gypsum (Calcium [elemental form Ca++] & Sulfur)
1x Limestone (Calcium Carbonate CaCO3)
Mix equal parts and then use 2 cups of the mix to 1 c.f. of potting soil
Azomite - available everywhere
Gypsum - $8.00 for 50 lbs. at Home Depot - make sure you buy it in the garden department and not the version in the home repair. The one in the garden department is used as a tofu coagulant in Chinese-style tofu (dofu)
Limestone - sold under the Scotts Super Soil Sweet (or something close) -
Just a suggestion
Back to Perlite vs. Pumice - another good choice that is also available at Home Depot is lava rock priced around $4.50 per 1 c.f. - same price per c.f. as Perlite without having to buy 4 c.f. to get the 'good dude price'
Another option to check out are landscape supply companies. Actually that would be my suggestion as a starting point. The local one down the road sells almost any of their rocks, gravels, etc. for $2.00 per paint bucket. You bring a bucket and load anything that you want - some of this, some of that, get a bit over here and there - $2.00 and you need to bring your own shovel.
Just some suggestions
CC
There's nothing wrong with Pumice - it's just a huge PITA if you're mixing your own soil and then this material moves around - like collecting on the surface and such.
Pumice is the same price as Perlite at nursery supply houses - about $3.75 per c.f. but with Pumice in order to get that price per c.f. you have to buy the 4 c.f. bags and I have never, ever bought one that didn't get ripped, spilling Perlite all over and it's nearly impossible to sweep up completely - like I said it's a PITA! LOL
But there's nothing 'wrong' with it but there are probably several good reasons to use Pumice over Perlite and that has to do with the physical structure of the pieces.
Mineral Sources:
How about this?
1x Azomite (full range of minerals for the most part)
1x Gypsum (Calcium [elemental form Ca++] & Sulfur)
1x Limestone (Calcium Carbonate CaCO3)
Mix equal parts and then use 2 cups of the mix to 1 c.f. of potting soil
Azomite - available everywhere
Gypsum - $8.00 for 50 lbs. at Home Depot - make sure you buy it in the garden department and not the version in the home repair. The one in the garden department is used as a tofu coagulant in Chinese-style tofu (dofu)
Limestone - sold under the Scotts Super Soil Sweet (or something close) -
Just a suggestion
Back to Perlite vs. Pumice - another good choice that is also available at Home Depot is lava rock priced around $4.50 per 1 c.f. - same price per c.f. as Perlite without having to buy 4 c.f. to get the 'good dude price'
Another option to check out are landscape supply companies. Actually that would be my suggestion as a starting point. The local one down the road sells almost any of their rocks, gravels, etc. for $2.00 per paint bucket. You bring a bucket and load anything that you want - some of this, some of that, get a bit over here and there - $2.00 and you need to bring your own shovel.
Just some suggestions
CC
Make sure to lay a blanket over the back window before they fill it....or you might have glass dust as an added bonus.
It seems I've got a few gnats flying around inside my cab. I'm heading to the garden center on Sat. What should I grab? Neem oil? Anything else?
I've ordered predatory nematodes from these guys a couple times...... or if I can't introduce a native population of predators from my local terrain.
http://www.naturescontrol.com/thrip.html#dd
.
Granite was considered to be the best 'stonemeal' by Julius Hensel, the author of Bread From Stones.
Hensel was the first one to challenge Liebig's theory 'Law of Minimums' (the father of the NPK myth) which cost him his career from pressure by the chemical industry in Germany in the late 1800's.
"Ya done good" - especially at that price! LOL
CC
I was actually talking about that book today with someone at a farm, in reference to the "remineralization" fad that has everyone aflutter. I hadn't actually read the book yet, so when I got home I started the first few pages online here:
http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/010173.hensel.pdf
I went looking into Julius Hensel, and found that he does not have an Wikipedia page, which I found odd.
http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/010173.hensel.pdf
I went looking into Julius Hensel, and found that he does not have an Wikipedia page, which I found odd.
B
BlueJayWay
I need to hit up home depot, oh and probably orange county farm supply, i can't seem to find a decent farm supply in the inland empire (seems like there should be, I'm sure I'm just looking in the wrong areas) but i commute from up the coast so orange county isn't all that much out of the way.
5lb boxes from the nursery or DTE brand from the hydro shop are going way too quick, buying in 50lb bags cuts the cost of amendments by at least 50% to 70%, so unless you run a small cabinet soil grow, definitely worth it.
Since I've found success amending my reused soils (for several months now) I have countless bottles sitting on the shelf, I don't think I need to use any of those hydro store bought bottled ferts or supps anymore, but it'd be nice to use them up and not feel like it was a waste of $$$ LOL. Any suggestions?
Let's see where shall I begin:
biothrive grow/bloom/boost
aptus peak, mass, finale boost, ecozen
Humboldt naturals bloom 0-10-0
technaflora soluble seaweed 1-1-16
natures nectar N 5-0-0
GO CaMg
Protekt & BioAg fulpower are the only two I still use regularly... I figured I'd just throw in a bottled feeding here and there until they're gone...
Well other than the awesome soil mix, these plants received only ACT's & botanical teas in Veg and maybe two or three feedings of the GO biothrive + aptus through all of flowering, and that's because I want to use the bottles up and not feel like they were wasted purchases. :/
I grow mostly this cut of Sour Bubble, wicked potency, rock hard flowers and heavy trich coverage, BUT it won't yield what I need - any suggestions? I've also been wanting to mess around with what may be considered the most unadulterated strains - suggestions?
More Sour Bubble:
The curling up of the leaves from the trichs - this is my first run where I had this happen(!), from this cut or any plant for that matter - and it's in my reused/amended soil mix with easily less than 5% bottle-fed.
5lb boxes from the nursery or DTE brand from the hydro shop are going way too quick, buying in 50lb bags cuts the cost of amendments by at least 50% to 70%, so unless you run a small cabinet soil grow, definitely worth it.
Since I've found success amending my reused soils (for several months now) I have countless bottles sitting on the shelf, I don't think I need to use any of those hydro store bought bottled ferts or supps anymore, but it'd be nice to use them up and not feel like it was a waste of $$$ LOL. Any suggestions?
Let's see where shall I begin:
biothrive grow/bloom/boost
aptus peak, mass, finale boost, ecozen
Humboldt naturals bloom 0-10-0
technaflora soluble seaweed 1-1-16
natures nectar N 5-0-0
GO CaMg
Protekt & BioAg fulpower are the only two I still use regularly... I figured I'd just throw in a bottled feeding here and there until they're gone...
Well other than the awesome soil mix, these plants received only ACT's & botanical teas in Veg and maybe two or three feedings of the GO biothrive + aptus through all of flowering, and that's because I want to use the bottles up and not feel like they were wasted purchases. :/
I grow mostly this cut of Sour Bubble, wicked potency, rock hard flowers and heavy trich coverage, BUT it won't yield what I need - any suggestions? I've also been wanting to mess around with what may be considered the most unadulterated strains - suggestions?
More Sour Bubble:
The curling up of the leaves from the trichs - this is my first run where I had this happen(!), from this cut or any plant for that matter - and it's in my reused/amended soil mix with easily less than 5% bottle-fed.
B
BlueJayWay
This beauty of a sourbub is in my no-till 18gal tub @ 25 days flower, 2nd run with minimal amendments and no baby bottle nutes lol, i have 4 of these tubs going now and they all look great.
Bogbubble
And some nugs of an unknown strain (fruity aroma)
Anyways, just wanted to share a bit more, I found this thread @ the perfect time right when I was delving into reusing and amending my soil and having my best results yet, so i'm immensely grateful to you all for sharing awesome (common sense & scientific) gardening tips!
I have a story in this I could share & I think many are/were in the same boat, but I'm rambling so to make a long story short: I grew up in the garden with my mom, composting, layering mulches, growing beautiful herbs & huge veggies, we even had a plot in the local community garden. Years later I decided, shit I need to grow my own herb, so what does an unsuspecting young dude do, go to a grow shop duh, why would I go to the nursery or farm store? They don't know anything about growing weeeed - and I think we could all finish that story right?
One thing I'm having trouble wrapping my head around (and this could be misguided notions from above said visits to the grow shops) is flowering stage feeding. Would anyone like to share/discuss there thoughts and possible differences in what we do for flowering in a living organic recycled soil situation vs. your typical inert medium, bottle fed nutrient program?
I do use compost teas about once weekly and am now rotating botanical teas (comfrey is coming up this sunday), I'm just not sure what, if anything, needs to change once flowering is induced. All the nutrition is in the soil so maybe I just really need to watch and see what the plants need when/if they need it(?), ACT's have their continual benefits, reinvigorating the soils beneficial bacterias/fungi/archea & then some. Botanical teas provide various and unique benefits we certainly enjoy taking advantage of (alfalfa/kelp/comfrey/borage/nettle/aloe/yarrow etc. etc.)....I don't know, but I think it's certainly time to clear the air and un-brainwash my(our)self from the hydrogrow shop attack of misinformation! Lets Discuss -
blueJ
(again, thanks everyone!)
Bogbubble
Anyways, just wanted to share a bit more, I found this thread @ the perfect time right when I was delving into reusing and amending my soil and having my best results yet, so i'm immensely grateful to you all for sharing awesome (common sense & scientific) gardening tips!
I have a story in this I could share & I think many are/were in the same boat, but I'm rambling so to make a long story short: I grew up in the garden with my mom, composting, layering mulches, growing beautiful herbs & huge veggies, we even had a plot in the local community garden. Years later I decided, shit I need to grow my own herb, so what does an unsuspecting young dude do, go to a grow shop duh, why would I go to the nursery or farm store? They don't know anything about growing weeeed - and I think we could all finish that story right?
One thing I'm having trouble wrapping my head around (and this could be misguided notions from above said visits to the grow shops) is flowering stage feeding. Would anyone like to share/discuss there thoughts and possible differences in what we do for flowering in a living organic recycled soil situation vs. your typical inert medium, bottle fed nutrient program?
I do use compost teas about once weekly and am now rotating botanical teas (comfrey is coming up this sunday), I'm just not sure what, if anything, needs to change once flowering is induced. All the nutrition is in the soil so maybe I just really need to watch and see what the plants need when/if they need it(?), ACT's have their continual benefits, reinvigorating the soils beneficial bacterias/fungi/archea & then some. Botanical teas provide various and unique benefits we certainly enjoy taking advantage of (alfalfa/kelp/comfrey/borage/nettle/aloe/yarrow etc. etc.)....I don't know, but I think it's certainly time to clear the air and un-brainwash my(our)self from the hydrogrow shop attack of misinformation! Lets Discuss -
blueJ
(again, thanks everyone!)
B
BlueJayWay
Within the same week I did an application of these nematodes (from arbico organics) plus a soil drench of Capulators Beneficials root & foliar pack. Within a week from that and still (6 weeks later) fungus gnats are few and far between. My yellow sticky traps were filling up very quickly and too many gnats visibly flying around, I knew it was becoming a problem quick. Now I have yellow sticky traps and after weeks only have a few gnats stuck...
BlueJay
OC Farm Supply - LOL!
They gave us our start during the Summer of Thai out in Modjeska Canyon, Silverado Canyon and my favorite - San Juan Creek off Ortega Highway. A couple of friends ran some plays out in Gypsum Canyon
You sure couldn't pull that craziness off today after the mass migration to South County.
CC
OC Farm Supply - LOL!
They gave us our start during the Summer of Thai out in Modjeska Canyon, Silverado Canyon and my favorite - San Juan Creek off Ortega Highway. A couple of friends ran some plays out in Gypsum Canyon
You sure couldn't pull that craziness off today after the mass migration to South County.
CC
Is the neem oil from Dyna-Gro by any chance? And does your garden center carry products from Down-To-Earth?
CC
B
BlueJayWay
CC - you seem to be full of fuckin' history, love to sit and puff away on the infamous TO of yours and just listen to the stories and knowledge you drop like loose change around here
Let's turn this thread into a real life round table around the fire 'n shoot the shit, there's free campsites i know in these here mountains I dwell in....
Let's turn this thread into a real life round table around the fire 'n shoot the shit, there's free campsites i know in these here mountains I dwell in....
The common wisdom says that you need large amounts of P and K in flower, but a lot of us do not pay attention to common wisdom. And I think we all eventually develope our own strategies based on what we have to work with. I want to give you another way of looking at it, because no one ever accused me of wisdom common or not.
For me going into flower I want my plants to have momentum. My best cycles happened after the plants were growing crazy fast going into flower. 2-3 inches of vertical growth per day is ideal. Flowering is stressful on plants so if there not clicking then you might have trouble later, if it takes an extra week so be it, just listen to your plants.
So at the final transplant before flower I like to feed alfalfa meal teas and nettles, kelp meal, and dandelion, and comfrey, all in teas. All these will be great for fast growing plants. They all have fairly high levels of calcium, not in NPK but stll important. Plus the diversity of multiple teas gives me diversity of trace elements.
At the switch to 12/12 I like to feed a tea with sul po mag, and again at about three weeks in. This gives the plants a shot of sulfur, potassium and magnesium in a soluble form, or fast acting. But only if I feel they can take this shot, if their suffering in any way I won't force feed them.
In flower I like teas made with comfrey, yarrow, dandelion flowers, and kelp meal. I just rotate them in no particular order. I use these teas because they have worked well for me so far, but I'm always open to new things. I try to fit in a little humic acid once a week or so in tiny amounts.
I make my teas fairly week, the color would be like drinking tea at one hung lo's Chinese resteranut. But I feed the plants tea at almost every watering up to around 6 weeks in flower on ten week varieties.
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