LIQUID KARMA is just KELP?

[puff adder]

GH Florolicious-Plus has kelp in it, and from what I can gather it is kind of the same type of product as Liquid Karma.

From Roots Organic, the product Extreme Serene is a kelp product that I think is similar to Nitrozyme.

The Bloom Booster grom GH, Powdered Kool Bloom, also has kelp in it.

I am using/have used all three of these products with good results.

 

[hydr1]

Flourolicious plus stomps out lk all day....its more expensive but has 100x the amount of humics.

And derived from kelp....you only use 1ml per 5 gal too I believe

 

[highvolt]

so what strength should i mix a liquid sea kelp product to a gal for veg and for flower without making the folage start growing out of control ?as i've read its good in veg but can delay the opnset of flowers in flowering
good thread guys.

 

[PhytoChrome]

Any word on the difference between Humic Acids derived from Leonardite and ones from Biological sources like humus?

I checked out Nature's Solution Ancient Humate and BioDiversiTea's Diatomic Humus which the salesman said was a non-leonardite source.

The reason I bring it up is because our compost tea brewer friend took a class and was told that non-leonardite sources of humics are better for the biology.

Also, what do you guys think about Earth Juice Catalyst :Oat Bran, Kelp, Wheat Malt, molasses, yeast. These fermented products have higher amounts of vitamins and hormones from what I've read.....

 

[grapeman]

Seaweed and Humic here
http://www.simplici-tea.com/product_page.htm
Cheaper and better then any listed above.

 

[qbert]

.........

 

[greenmatter]

I think part of what makes Liquid Karma successful other than it works is people don't know why it works or what's in it. This seems to make just about any nutrient successful. The recipe for making a successful nutrient is to proven some sort of results, be very vague about what the product contains, and spend a bunch of money on marketing.

well said mary

 

[baet]

GH Flora Licious Plus~ 6.5 cents per gallon of nutrient solution.

Alternative Cold Processed Liquid Kelp~ 8-16 cents per gallon of nutrient solution.

Botanicare Liquid Karma~ 30 cents per gallon of nutrient solution.

^ Based on the MSRP of a quart of Liquid Karma and Flora Licious Plus, and a gallon of Liquid Cold Processed Kelp.


FLORALICIOUS PLUS™

• Amino Acids
• Bacillus Subtillis
• Complex Sugars
• Humic & Fulvic Acids
• Polyflavinoids
• Phytosimulants
• Sea Weed
• Vitamins

Basically Flora Licious Plus has the Seaweed and Humic/Fulvics in one very concentrated package. Cheaper than buying liquid kelp and bottled humic.


Everyone mentions how expensive GH Flora Licious Plus is when its brought up in conversation. It's actually really not bad when you take into account how concentrated it is.
1 tsp. per 5 gallons of water, I love that.

I just picked up a bottle

 

[tester]

What do you mean by "very concentrated"?

 

[organicsquirrel]

What do you mean by "very concentrated"?

It isn't watered down...

 

[tester]

I mean, what makes you think it's very concentrated?

 

[organicsquirrel]

I mean, what makes you think it's very concentrated?

You buy two bottles of nutrient, Bottle A and Bottle B, both bottles cost 14.95, are liquid, and are the same size. Both are listed to contain all the nutrition a plant needs.

Bottle A says to mix 15 tsp per gallon

Bottle B says to mix 2 tsp per gallon


Which one is more concentrated?

 

[tester]

I see your point, but this doesn't necessarily mean that bottle B is more concentrated.

Both A and B can contain the same things at the same concentrations, the only difference is in the directions.

In fact both of them can be just simple water with a dash of kelp and compost tea, the only difference between them is the dosage written on the label, which has very little to do with their real contents.
I mean both amounts can have the same effects (if they have any)

It'd be somewhat better to compare them by their density, but there is a more important question here :
Why should I buy something if I don't even know what's in it?

If the exact components and amounts are trade secrets, which I can really understand, then the company must prove that it's working and it really does what it says on the label.
Marketing and advertisements are not reliable in any way, there should be research, experiments and trials made by a third party.


Either the exact contents of the product or the researches/tests must presented, until that these are just hyped snake oils.

 

[baet]

tester- we know for sure there is humic acid, fulvic, and sea kelp in flora licious plus, those aren't part of the "trade secret" , they are on the label. these supplements (kelp,humic/fulvic) have been scientifically proven to enhance some aspects of plant health and vigor. flora licious plus happens to be cheaper than buying a "cheap" alternative of liquid kelp and liquid humic acid for me at the recommended dose.


I believe it to be more concentrated from speculation. It is no "dash of kelp and humic", it is black and oily.

The consistency and color of the FLPlus is black, thick, and stinks strongly of kelp and humic acid, i know what the two smell like to my best ability, i've used a lot of liquid kelp products and very familiar with a concentrated humic acid product called humax. They have unique stink.
Liquid Karma, smells nothing like liquid kelp, nor humic acid, it smells like a mild compost tea, and reported to have removed the humics all together from their LK reported another icmag member.
So the switch from Liquid Karma to Flora Licious Plus made sense to me.


All i am saying is I don't mind paying less money for an all-in-one-supplement, that covers my kelp, humics and fulvics. as well as floralicious plus then has some of those trade secrets, which supposedly consists of some bacteria, vitamins, complex sugars blahblahblah.

I appreciate your input. but it is very unlikely that unbiased third-party testing is going to happen for any of these hydroponic companies products. i would feel safe saying 99.9% unlikely, ha.

 

[tester]

All I'm saying is if there is a product that's sold in a growshop by a company like GH, it will always cost a lot more than the components it was made of, because GH and the growshop has to make profit too, so you have to pay the extra for their marketing, advertisement, and other additional costs that has nothing to do with the product itself.

You can buy the components separately or get a similar "all in one" product straight from the producer instead of GH - who basically just buys the same stuff, then water it down before charging the extra to have their own profit-
No value added, there only costs.

In this case the components are indicated but quantities and qualities are concealed.
If it's really that good and concentrated, IMO those numbers and quality certifications would be everywhere on the label, to show it's really better than others.

Visual inspection can tell you a lot but it also can be deceiving and inaccurate. I easily believe that one product looks better than the other, all I want to say that these will newer reach the quality of a product that comes straight from the producer.
The less traders between the buyer and the producer, the better the quality for less money.
Companies like GH are unnecessary IMO.

it is very unlikely that unbiased third-party testing is going to happen for any of these hydroponic companies products. i would feel safe saying 99.9% unlikely, ha.

When more growers will be educated enough to say no to hype and bullshit, the sooner the companies will have to start doing some real research, (for example finding the nutrient profile for cannabis, it's a joke they sell nutrients for cannabis without knowing it, they are making fortunes and don't even sponsor a reliable research.

Sorry, I just realized you were just comparing the product that this topic is about to an other one while I went completely offtopic

 

[baet]

tester- i get what your saying.

yeah, mainly comparing LK to FL+ , but i don't mind expanding the conversation. i'm always trying to find a cheaper alternative.

i agree that hydro companies are partially/completely bullshit, depending on the company. and that everything could be done cheaper with alternative non "hydro" companies. outdoors i use practically no hydro companies. compost heavily amended w/ guanos, rock dusts, meals, and kelp. but indoors i have a different mind set, mainly i guess because i'm trying to do organic without the mess of amendments with trying to stay as sterile as possible

advanced nutrient sells products that are merely .5% magnesium sulfate (budcandy) for $76 retail a gallon. who in their right minds could honestly justify spending $76 on a gallon of watered down epsom salts??!

and sadly i partially fall into that ^ category of people for buying hydroponic company nutrients. all i can do is research and take note of ingredients on the labels, and make a judgement call.

i've used quite a few different nutrients, i really do love Botanicare's one-part Pure Blend Pro Grow and Bloom, I'll continue to use those two for quite awhile, even though I know it could be done cheaper. CalMag, Kelp, Humic/Fulvic supplements usually comes down to what's the cheapest. I use epsom salts for mag supplement, but I just purchased a bottle of General Organics CaMg, because i heard really good things and it's cheaper than Botanicare's CaMg+ and lacks the EDTA Chelating agent present in Botanicare's new CaMg+. I'm slightly lazy, the less bottles and nutes I have to mix the better, as long as the results are to my standards, which seem to be high.

 

[Eugenics]

I use it when I'm soaking seeds, supplemental feedings, foliar. I know it's worth the price I pay per gallon @ PLH...Nitrozyme, is expensive, but when you need to perk up a veg room, follow the directions and stand back. Awesome.

 

[Mountain]

......

 

[tester]

I'm slightly lazy, the less bottles and nutes I have to mix the better, as long as the results are to my standards, which seem to be high.

This might seems to be true, but after a second thought :

With 4-5 different fertilizer salts any kind of nutrient profile can be done, you can copy any nutrient solution from any company, make your own P/K13-14, Boosters and whatever from these same salts.

About supplements:
As you said, some research might prove that these supplements really work, but this will be true only under the given conditions. What might work on tomatoes in soil outdoors might not do a thing on cannabis indoors where the plants usually has everything they need.
So I'd recommend simple side by side comparisons. If a product really helped by adding some weight compared to the other group, and the difference is bigger then it was between the control and the same group, or friends can tell which bud got the extra treatment while they don't even know there was an extra treatment, then why not use and buy it, the product really worked for you under those conditions.
But it might not work for someone else with different conditions.

Most of these supplements are industrial byproducts, that were just waiting to be used for something. If a company could find a use for it's byproduct, there was a huge extra profit.
So they set up the experiments in a way that it shows that it works.
This use was usually animal fodder or agricultural supplement.
Some of these really work, some of them were just set up to work.
Might be just speculation but I heard this from the people who had to make these experiments in a way it shows good results.

 

[danks]

tester- i get what your saying.

yeah, mainly comparing LK to FL+ , but i don't mind expanding the conversation. i'm always trying to find a cheaper alternative.

i agree that hydro companies are partially/completely bullshit, depending on the company. and that everything could be done cheaper with alternative non "hydro" companies. outdoors i use practically no hydro companies. compost heavily amended w/ guanos, rock dusts, meals, and kelp. but indoors i have a different mind set, mainly i guess because i'm trying to do organic without the mess of amendments with trying to stay as sterile as possible

advanced nutrient sells products that are merely .5% magnesium sulfate (budcandy) for $76 retail a gallon. who in their right minds could honestly justify spending $76 on a gallon of watered down epsom salts??!

and sadly i partially fall into that ^ category of people for buying hydroponic company nutrients. all i can do is research and take note of ingredients on the labels, and make a judgement call.

i've used quite a few different nutrients, i really do love Botanicare's one-part Pure Blend Pro Grow and Bloom, I'll continue to use those two for quite awhile, even though I know it could be done cheaper. CalMag, Kelp, Humic/Fulvic supplements usually comes down to what's the cheapest. I use epsom salts for mag supplement, but I just purchased a bottle of General Organics CaMg, because i heard really good things and it's cheaper than Botanicare's CaMg+ and lacks the EDTA Chelating agent present in Botanicare's new CaMg+. I'm slightly lazy, the less bottles and nutes I have to mix the better, as long as the results are to my standards, which seem to be high.

i dont like advanced nutes but you full of shit. bud candy is not just magnesium sulfate, your kind of propaganda without facts only fucks up beginers grows. bud candy is one of the few products advanced makes well, there is also ph up super strong you need to buy 10 liters of any other company ph up to make 1 liter of advanced. diamond nectar is not crap either. alot of people here look at a product and the list of ingredients and then find someone elses product and say i know this is better it has more of this and that. how about you dont comment on any product that you havent field tested yourself and dont base your opinions on others opinions and make them fact.