Lets talk about jailtime and risks associated with growing..

[LetTimmySmoke]

I think many growers especially here in california are operating under a false sense of security. every person here claims you can grow 99 plants per script you hang on the wall and you wont go to jail. now that might be true, but you could still get raided and go through a shitstorm.

I have read the norml website, and closely looked at most county rules. the ONLY place you can grow 99 plants per garden is humbolt county. in mendo you can do 25..in oakland 72..but MOST COUNTIES AND CITIES INCLUDING THE ONE I LIVE IN, technically only allow 6 flowering and 12 veg and 8oz of dried buds.

Now, i grow around 150 plants in two bedrooms using two scripts one for each room. i usually have a decent amount of dried bud on me around 5lbs after harvest. I also "donate" buds to friends in exchange for money to help cover costs. technically i guess its drug dealing, and if im raided and the cops find my 150 plants, 5 lbs, scale, baggies, and cash, i could get charged with felony cultivation and felony distribution which carries a 2-3 year jail sentence.


So, now to main question. Anybody in california care to chime in on this? Know anyone arrested for growing over the limit and intent to sale? whats the average penalties (im in alameda county but NOT in oakland).....are people actually facing jailtime? Are most cases getting dropped..community service..what kind of fines and asset forfeitures have been happenig, have you been raided and had your car taken as well?

these are things that sketch me out and sometimes its hard to sleep at night because i think im gonna get raided. however i love growing weed and i cant stop smoking it, and i already invested lots of money in my grow and have no intentions of stopping. I know that if i got raided i could bail out and hire a good lawyer but i still do not like the idea of having a felony on my record. should i get the cultivators permit??

sorry for long post, i really need to talk about this its been bugging me alot lately...i have no prior violent criminal record outside of some minor drinking in public/smoking in public and speeding tickets...i have deleted cookies to IC so cops cant trace me here...i pay power bill aNd dont steal power...i try to keep the flowering room under 100 but my veg room always puts me into the 150s...i use a burner phone not associated with my name...however i grow and live in the same place im not fortunate to live seperately from the grow...so its all in my name.

 

[Green lung]

Huh you say California......

You got it easy.

 

[FistedSister]

haze makin you anxious?

 

[thingshappening]

in my opinion, hitting triple digits in CA is not worth it unless you plan to go 300+ plants and absolutely blow the shit out of growshow. You're risking a very, very lengthy federal prison going over 100, and for what? An extra 50 plants that you could have converted to trees, dialed your shit in better/done a scrog and improved your yield with 99? Seems ridiculous to me.

To the rest of it: Yes I've read about people doing time for selling in CA (even with a card), yes I know people who are in prison even with a card, and yes, you are at a very real and deadly serious risk of a decade long federal sentence. Come on man; I don't even live in CA and I know the laws and the day-to-day climate better. Google this stuff, it's out there.

The fact that you are going over 100 plants without knowing this shit blows my mind, and with all due respect (and I mean it, this is not an ad hom) I would consider another profession.

I just socked away another ten grand in retainer/advance legal fees for the best rep in the state. I know the laws inside and out in both states I garden in. I research a good 30 minutes to an hour, sometimes more per day regarding the changing environment. I suggest you do the same.

Just my two pennies. Again, no hate bro. I just can't fathom having a grow that could very realistically send you to federal prison without knowing the 101 shit. I don't think you are ready for this stuff yet.

 

[Rednick]

How about clocking in for the daily 9-5.
under-funded 401(k), mortage debt looming over you, credit worries, health insurance nightmares...

Who is really in jail?

Hence the jealousy and prisons. Gotta keep us honest. Growers always get taxed, it is just a matter of how.

 

[Aerohead]

How about clocking in for the daily 9-5.
under-funded 401(k), mortage debt looming over you, credit worries, health insurance nightmares...

Who is really in jail?

Hence the jealousy and prisons. Gotta keep us honest. Growers always get taxed, it is just a matter of how.

Well said!! This is why we take risks.. Nothing is free, especially us.

 

[thingshappening]

How about clocking in for the daily 9-5.
under-funded 401(k), mortage debt looming over you, credit worries, health insurance nightmares...

Who is really in jail?

Hence the jealousy and prisons. Gotta keep us honest. Growers always get taxed, it is just a matter of how.

Such a grotesque, self-serving, intellectually bankrupt disposition. How about paying taxes like an adult and contributing to your community and country with a meaningful job?

Is this where I get a Chomsky-esque lecture about the invalidity of taxes and how it's all just a rat race and blah?

Ugh.

Not everyone who works for a living hands out fries or shady bank loans. Some of us actually contribute. Try it, feels good.

 

[zenoonez]

If you have 12 plants you can be raided and prosecuted. 215 doesn't protect you from prosecution or arrest, it allows you a medical defense in a court of law. Plant restrictions were ruled invalid by SCOC. You and your doctor get to decide what is sufficient medicine for you and your problems. That being said, my suggestion would be to sign people up to your own collective. If you do that you are pretty much as legal state wise as you can be. I know my cousin signs up for every collective that asks him. He prolly has had hundreds if not thousands of pounds grown under his rec.

 

[headiez247]

in my opinion, hitting triple digits in CA is not worth it unless you plan to go 300+ plants and absolutely blow the shit out of growshow. You're risking a very, very lengthy federal prison going over 100, and for what? An extra 50 plants that you could have converted to trees, dialed your shit in better/done a scrog and improved your yield with 99? Seems ridiculous to me.

^that.

To the OP, your concerns are legit. 99 plants per script is bullshit. If you get raided with 99 plants and 2 scripts, your going to go through the system. If your caught with 150 plants and 2 scripts, your case has a good chance of going federal in which case your going to jail and will be a felon.

There is a huge incorrect sense of security with most growers in Cali which I honestly find hilarious. People grow hundreds of plants and just convince themselves that it is legit and they will be ok. This just isn't the case.

Every single person in California growing over 99 plants is risking going through the federal court system, becoming a registered felon, and going to federal jail. Period, end of story. Is there a chance it won't go federal? Sure. That's up to you to decide.

In general, you want to either be at 99 or less, or be at WAY over 100 (aka 350+) to make it worth it. 150 is not worth it at all.

In either case, 99 or less, or 99 or more, if you are raided, you are automatically looking at $15,000+ in legal fees, bail, fines, etc EVEN IF YOU ARE ULTIMATELY FOUND INNOCENT. This is another idiotic assumption that people make. They think that the cops who raid them will see they have a script and go "oh ok, have a nice day." Uh no. Your house will be turned upside down, the plants will be destroyed, you will spend the day in jail, you will have bail if you want to get out, and you will have to get a lawyer. It will be 6 months or more before everything is said and done.

Regarding specific counties, yes ultimately Humboldt and some counties up north tend to be more forgiving but again ultimately if you are over 99 plants, the Fed's can do whatever the fuck they want because pot is still illegal to them.

If you do a simple google news search you will see COUNTLESS people in California who are not only busted but have gone to jail for under 99 plants. Same deal with 99+.

My suggestion for you specifically would be to 1) get way more scripts. You need to realize that ultimately you have to convince a judge (or if it goes to trial, you need to convince a jury, along with about $10,000 more on top) that you were justified in growing the amount you grew. You will NOT convince a jury or judge that your two patients required 150 plants to grow. In fact the judge will probably laugh at you and throw the book at your face.

Your best bet is to get as many scripts as possible. I had 15. This way it is MUCH easier to convince people that you were legit and growing for multiple patients etc.

The second thing I would suggest is to either up your plant count to 350+ or, more likely, lower it to 99. 150 is a dumb number.

 

[designer]

Timmy there is some good advice from these guys.

Ordinarily I would not suggest seeking legal advice on this site because, as it has been said, there is a false sense of security. Not just California, but Oregon too. I meet people that think they have a golden shield because they have a card. With what you have going I sure hope there are no firearms in your home. And don't pussy foot around, you are dealing. Most card holders I know do it, so it is nothing to be ashamed of. Getting caught is though. Once they lock you in jail you never really know when you are getting out, if more charges are going to be added or if (hear this) the courts refuse your bail because they suspect it is drug money. Jail sucks bad, hard time (prison) worse, forfeiture of everything you own, loss of your children, fines, legal expenses, and the alienation you will suffer from people like us are no fucking joke. I don't want anyone around me that has been busted.

Read what these guys say and make some changes before you are in a deeper hole than you can imagine.

 

[budlykush]

Something a good lawyer told me once............."If you intend to grow medical mj, you will be in violation of federal law"

 

[brokenbmxer]

.

 

[brokenbmxer]

Know your legal terms!

Know your legal terms!

An article in the newest Kush Magazine claims that it is unconstitutional for any county to put a limit on plant numbers. It also explains that any doctor offering a "growers license" is fraud, because simply having your recommendation allows you to grow up to the state limit of 99 plants. However, you are correct in assuming that you may have to deal with a lot of BS from police who do not know the laws and try to enforce every little aspect of a largely grey area that simply exempts us from state laws forbidding marijuana due to our medical status.

That being said, there is a doctor, whom will remain unnamed, however you can find him in the county of Lake, and he will prescribe specifically 99 plants and 19 pounds per year. He is the most legit doctor I can find, and he is a real doctor. Medicann is a good source for the online and instant verification, but it isn't specific. This guy ain't going anywhere either because he has a real doctors office and sees real patients, not just growers. The only problem is his verification is by fax only and can take up to 48 hours at a club, however if you call their office and explain that you have a situation that police need to verify I am sure they would get to it immediately. For after hours might suck, I am considering going to medicann as a backup.

I have dealt with CHP driving from Sac to clearlake to sell clones, at the time my recommendation said I could have 25 plants, but I carelessly brought about 30 clones with me. I was pulled for a crooked license plate, but had to pull some legal crap out of my ass to get away with not going to jail. There are important things to remember when talking to police, especially state police, regardless of the law.
1. You are not selling anything, it is for trade for other types of medicine.
2. You are working with/for a collective, not a co-op.
3. You pay sales tax, and if you are caught with vendor forms and receipts, you pay income tax.
4. Remember you are 100% sure that you are abiding by state law, because odds are they have no idea and if they suspect that you might not be, they will look for reasons that you aren't legal. Otherwise, if they think you have done your homework, they don't want to look stupid.

I got off by telling the truth oddly enough, that I had moved to sac but hadn't changed my address on my drivers license yet, and that I already had a docs appt set up to update my rec to fit with sacramento laws. The two cops huddled for a minute realized they couldn't arrest me, so they gave me a ticket for not registering my car in california. The funny part is, I don't own a car! They had forgotten that I gave them my Dad's registration who owns the car in Virginia. I just borrowed the damn thing, I don't think I can even register it here. They were pissed, just wanted to give me a ticket for something.

 

[Hammerhead]

I dont do more then 15 plants. I start out with 30 but but the time I cull the males and pick through the females it will be 15 or less. If I get raided at least it wont be a felony. I dont have a record so I would not do any jail time most likely probation. Im no lawyer so I'm guessing here but I'm small compared to most others.


Im doing 15 because I ran out. When these are done I wont do any more then 1-2 plantsmy freedom is more important then having my home filled with cannabis. I only grow for me.

 

[EclipseFour20]

Double protection: Become BOTH a collective MEMBER and a COLLECTIVE. You join several collectives as a cultivator-member and grow for them...AND at the same time you operate your own collective--making your flowers available to those special peeps.

Now you have one of the best defenses--mmj patient, mmj collective member, and mmj collective operator. Now allocate your 150 plants to each of the three categories--and ask yourself, is it reasonable?

Cheers!

 

[headiez247]

An article in the newest Kush Magazine claims that it is unconstitutional for any county to put a limit on plant numbers. It also explains that any doctor offering a "growers license" is fraud, because simply having your recommendation allows you to grow up to the state limit of 99 plants.

That being said, there is a doctor, whom will remain unnamed, however you can find him in the county of Lake, and he will prescribe specifically 99 plants and 19 pounds per year. He is the most legit doctor I can find, and he is a real doctor.

False information. For one, the "state limit" is 6/12, period.

Secondly, Kush magazine (one of the last places I'd go for legal advice) can claim something is unconstitutional all they want, but the legal system, cops, and the DA will laugh in your face when you try to say that.

Third, having a doctor write you 99 suggestion doesn't do shit either. (also, lemme guess, he charges more for that as opposed to a normal RX?). You used the word "prescribe". Doctor's aren't prescribing anything, they are "suggesting" that you could benefit from it. Regardless, having that 99 from a doc won't do shit for you in court. You are much better off having multiple scripts.

Double protection: Become BOTH a collective MEMBER and a COLLECTIVE. You join several collectives as a cultivator-member and grow for them...AND at the same time you operate your own collective--making your flowers available to those special peeps.

Now you have one of the best defenses--mmj patient, mmj collective member, and mmj collective operator. Now allocate your 150 plants to each of the three categories--and ask yourself, is it reasonable?

Cheers!

This won't hold up in court. It always comes down to scripts. You can claim your part of a billion different collectives but unless you can show on site with paperwork the people you are growing for, this most likely won't work. And again, none of this matters once you go over the 100 plant mark


Man I need to go to Law School so I can start taking money from all you guys.

 

[FistedSister]

Lets talk about jailtime and risks associated with growing..

been thinkin about this too...decided its worth it !! to hell with the haters

 

[designer]

I see all these people here say, "Oh yeah my doctor said I can have this or that" but like headies says, that wont hold up in court. A lot of people on this site, in this thread are giving legal advice, but it is your ass on the line. If I exceeded the 6/12 I sure as hell wouldn't be telling anyone about it. You can grow that many monster plants or scrogs or whatever to get a lot of smoke, but 215 is not a license to be a weed dealer.

 

[EclipseFour20]

False information....
This won't hold up in court. It always comes down to scripts. You can claim your part of a billion different collectives but unless you can show on site with paperwork the people you are growing for, this most likely won't work. And again, none of this matters once you go over the 100 plant mark....

Sorry...I think you need to heed your own medicine.

1. As a patient you have the normal MMJ "script defense"...period.
2. As a member-cultivator you have the normal "I grow for a collective" defense--and that quantity is dependent the size of the collective's membership and your agreement with the collective...period.
3. As an operating collective you have the normal everyday plain vanilla collective defense...and that quantity is based on the number of members you have...period.

Dude those are the laws--and this strategy makes it more difficult case for the prosecution. BTW...the tidbit I posted is part of the strategies recommended by my attorney and yes, he is on retainer.

What do you suggest--be a MMJ patient and ignore the advantages of using the legal defenses afforded to ordinary collectives? Nope, I suggest rolling all three defenses together...keep appropriate records...file the appropriate documents...in other words, play the game and you win--cut corners and you lose.

 

[LetTimmySmoke]

there definately needs to be more discussion, and thank you headiez for your input.

is the 99 plant for total flower and veg? my numbers are around 50-70 in flower and then the clones usually got about 50 of those but il try to cut back ive been giving clones away just trying to thin the heard.

also, i know that "technically" you could be fucked and all that. but i want to hear more real life experiance stories. like one from a friend where he got caught growing like 300 plants under 30k of lights and he stole power and his deal was felony on record with 5 years felony probation and about 5k in fines and lawyers fees he used a cheapo lawyer not a NORML one. still a shitty sentence but he was commercial grower just like alot of people out here. alot of growers out here are very cocky and seem to not care about prosecution because californias court system is so clogged up they are trying to release thousands of inmates early. most people just get felony probation which still kinda sucks i guess...thats a mark on the record for sure.

and i hear stories all the time abuot first time offenders getting off pretty lenient. but yeah this definately changes my perspective. im not growing for profit i simply wanna grow some good headstash, cover my electric bills, and play with genetics. gonna thin down the herd to under 100.

what if i put all my veg plants at seperate location with one script. then flower at another location with my script and keep numbers under 99. even though my cities ordinance says only 6/12 is allowed. fuck man the state laws are pretty confusing cant believe they cant just institute some more reasonable limits.