Leonardite as humic acid source

[Harry Hoosier]

bigshrimp

Pardon my ignorance here, but is there some overwhelming advantage to adding humic acid to a worm bin?

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Pardon my ignorance here, but is there some overwhelming advantage to adding humic acid to a worm bin?

Harry Hoosier

None that I can think of......

HTH

CC

 

[Harry Hoosier]

Harry Hoosier

None that I can think of......

HTH

CC

Thank you.

Thought I may have missed something.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Harry Hoosier

Humic acids increase the Cation exchange Capacity (CeC) in your soil, i.e. ions in the root zone which are exchanged with Hydrogen ions (H+) released by the roots - ion exchange.

HTH

CC

 

[Harry Hoosier]

Harry Hoosier

Humic acids increase the Cation exchange Capacity (CeC) in your soil, i.e. ions in the root zone which are exchanged with Hydrogen ions (H+) released by the roots - ion exchange.

HTH

CC

Thank you for that explanation. I just saw a poster above that added humic acid to worm bin and thought I had been missing something all these years.

A fruitless endeavor and un-necessary expense.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Since the ions in vermicompost are sequestered you're right - fruitless and added expense.

I do use BioAg's pure Humic acid weekly to soils both the indoor MMJ deal and in the raised beds but not in the worms bins.

CC

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Double Post

 

[Harry Hoosier]

I have used BioAg's Humisolve humic acid concentrate in the outdoor vegetable containers.

I liked the results. I had thought that using it might be redundant as I felt my vermicompost was sufficient.

You say weekly use in your raised beds, maybe I will change my methods this next year.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

HH

When the beds were installed I bought a planting mix from a local company. It was organic and made with really good materials but it didn't have the benefits from good native soil so the Humic has been added as part of the 'soil building' paradigm. I still add compost, rock dusts, etc. each year so I guess you could say that the Humic acid is something like an insurance policy.

Terrible analogy but it's all I got at the moment - LOL

CC

 

[ClackamasCootz]

HH

Soil Humic Substances - Dr. Jerzy Weber, professor of soil science at the Department of Soil Science & Agricultural Environment Protection, of the Agricultural University of Wroclaw, Poland

Dr. Weber is considered one the world's leading researchers in this area. If you only read #4 - Properties of Humic Substances you would be way ahead of the curve.

The International Humic Substances Society (IHSS) is a good resource as well....

CC

 

[bigshrimp]

>>shakes head<<

Compost being the final product of decomposition, is there another process that makes humics?

Cc

I thought humics increased nutrient uptake, which would seem to speed up decomposition. No?
Bigshrimp

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Compost being the final product of decomposition, is there another process that makes humics?

Cc

I thought humics increased nutrient uptake, which would seem to speed up decomposition. No?

Bigshrimp

Bigshrimp

Let's see how this explanation works on the various terms that seem to get lumped together:

Terminology of Humus-related Materials

Humus - product resulting from decay of organic matter. Contains both humic and non-humic material.

Humin - the alkali-insoluble fraction of leonardite

Humic substances - (plural) the collective name for the acid radicals found in humic matter. Typically separated from humic matter by alkaline extraction.

Humic acid - (singular) the acid radical found in humic matter which is soluble in alkali but insoluble in acid, methyl ethyl ketone, and methyl alcohol.

Humate - the salts of humic acids, collectively, or the salts of humic acid specifically. (The usage must be determined from the context.)

Fulvic acid - the acid radical found in humic matter which is soluble in alkali, acid, methyl ethyl ketone, and methyl alcohol.

Fulvates - the salts of fulvic acid.

Leonardite - a soft brown coal-like deposit usually found in conjunction with deposits of lignite.

Lignite - a type of soft coal.

Courtesy of Dr. Robert Faust

 

[bigshrimp]

Humics = humic substances = humic acid "umbrella"

 

[OrganicLearner]

Since the ions in vermicompost are sequestered you're right - fruitless and added expense.

I do use BioAg's pure Humic acid weekly to soils both the indoor MMJ deal and in the raised beds but not in the worms bins.

CC

I thought watering humic acid into soil was useless and was supposed to be added to soil beforehand to get any benefits from it? This not true?

 

[bigshrimp]

So humic substances act exclusively on plants? The play no other role in soil ecology?

 

[ClackamasCootz]

So humic substances act exclusively on plants?

No

The play no other role in soil ecology?

Define ecology or did you mean soil health?

 

[bigshrimp]

I mean the soil food web.

Adding fulvic to a worm bin in mass would be costly and ineffective as you said, but i use it in low concentrations sprayed on a new bin. An attempt to kick start the process.

The worms don't seem to mind.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

bigshrimp

Let's try this from another angle - What is your understanding of the function(s) of Humic and Fulvic acids?

With that information it will probably be easier to try and answer your questions.

HTH

CC

 

[bigshrimp]

K, fulvic acid acts as a chelator and a catalyst among other things. Its small size allows it to pass through cell membranes making particularly effective.

I will admit i am over my head, humic acids are complex molecules and their interactions with plants, soils, decomposition is even more so.

That being said adding it to an established worm bin very likely is wasteful since it is already rich in humic substances.

 

[rrog]

Humic and Fulvic acids are the result of decomposition to compost. This is Humus. It's what binds major cations as well as plant enzymes. It's what gives soil a high CEC

You were looking at humans eating the stuff = cell membranes. Plants have cell walls.