i guess im an idiot...
you see you brought up the feds when you brought up the d.c. voucher program.
but im an idiot for pointing it out?
spin spin spin.....
Legalize MJ ! Really? No I mean REALLY?
- Thread starter grapeman
- Start date
you see you brought up the feds when you brought up the d.c. voucher program.
but im an idiot for pointing it out?
spin spin spin.....
I grew up in and have lived large chunks of my childhood and adult life in Southern California. For the past few years (for reasons I'd prefer not to go into) I have been living out of state, but I am in the process of moving back. I will likely be posting my messages from Cali by the time 2011 rolls around.
And not to jump into the business or to corner the new (potentially) legal market. I'm coming back to grow my own in my own home without having to label myself an invalid or worry that some douche-bag kiefed my shit before he sold it to me at an astronomical price.
There's no way I will be able to be back home in time to vote on this. Obligations simply will not allow it. But I'm making my moves.
I hope you're right and if this doesn't pass that people will come up with something better and get it on a ballot.
I just can't imagine you're going to get something like this through (initially) without some sort of (potentially unenforceable) limitations to placate the conservatives and the concerned parents.
(emphasis mine)
you are a one note tune, and really dont know what you are talking about. GET A MED CARD IT IS EASY. THIS DOESNT EFFECT 215.
GET IT IN THICK HEAD. THIS DOESNT EFFECT 215!!! THEREFORE YOU DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT. ANY UNDER AGE PERSON YOU WANT TO TOKE WITH CAN GET A MED CARD TOO. SO GET ONE.
if you knew how government worked you would know it takes steps like these to get where you want. I doubt you payed attention in school (government) and I doubt you are now.
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StoneElemental
Member
And what's wrong with the libertarian position/party? The idea behind that party is to create as many freedoms as possible for the people as our forefathers intended with as little government interference or restriction possible. You're hostility is disheartening to even you're credibility IMO. The libertarians ARE for LESS GOVERNMENT, LESS UNIONS, and MORE FREEDOMS. Beyond that so many act like there can never be reform or repeal of laws yet you want reform and repeal over cannabis laws. Start actually taking a real stand in your life you can't always wait for the next best thing.
-S.E.
-S.E.
G
Guest 88950
TRAVIESO
youve been called out by me and ANTI regarding you rediculous stance about passing a joint to your homie who is under 21.
respond with PROOF of what you say OR exit this conversation b/c you really make the NO voters look like real winners.
youve been called out by me and ANTI regarding you rediculous stance about passing a joint to your homie who is under 21.
respond with PROOF of what you say OR exit this conversation b/c you really make the NO voters look like real winners.
In the last couple of days I have read on this site as well as others everything I could read on the vote coming in Nov. (52 pages on this site) I have seen the pros and cons on both sides of this question.
I live in the Gulf State getting covered buy oil. I grow a little in a room 3.5’ X 3.5’
Not much space but I do OK for someone who has just started to really get in touch with my plants. I can’t tell a soul or ill go to jail loose my home, hell I would loose everything.
It is too risky for someone in my position to get caught buying on the street and the only thing we can get here is crap half the time. I am getting to where I am growing some good shit. Wish I had access to one tenth of the supplies you guys have out there. I have to get everything off the net or drive 100 miles to the closest hydro shop.
Most of you sound like a friend of mine that wants no responsibility other than to grow weed and surf. I guess that would be nice to do if he didn’t have children he loves and needs to support. While I was reading these post I saw that for the majority of you there is no compromise in what you want. You guys just don’t get it how California goes this Nov. will be how the rest of the country will follow. You live in the most regulated state in our country. And you want to gripe about a little regulation on pot. You can’t get rich on 5x5 but you can grow more than enough to start. Cary an OZ my god what a wonderful concept, a quarter will damn near get you life here. So pull yourselves together get this done. Then you can start on the next step you don’t give a child a 12 gauge shot gun for his first hunt you start off with a smaller gauge and grow into a bigger one.
I thought just a few years ago why do have to take all these meds that the doctors were giving me. I got me a little weed started smoking again and now the doctors can kiss my ass. No side effects and I function I society again. I am drug and alcohol free. I don’t consider MJ a drug.
I hope I didn’t come off condescending I really like reading the post here and I am gaining knowledge. A whole lot of people quote my ggggggrandfather S Adams when downing Gov. regulation. He to realized that taxes were a necessary. Fire trucks, streets, bridges, clean water, schools for our children, don’t forget Leo he does other thins besides bust pot growers, the list goes on all paid for buy the thing we all hate TAXES. Some times good does come from evil.
This is my first post I hope I didn’t offend anyone. But the rest of the country is watching.
I live in the Gulf State getting covered buy oil. I grow a little in a room 3.5’ X 3.5’
Not much space but I do OK for someone who has just started to really get in touch with my plants. I can’t tell a soul or ill go to jail loose my home, hell I would loose everything.
It is too risky for someone in my position to get caught buying on the street and the only thing we can get here is crap half the time. I am getting to where I am growing some good shit. Wish I had access to one tenth of the supplies you guys have out there. I have to get everything off the net or drive 100 miles to the closest hydro shop.
Most of you sound like a friend of mine that wants no responsibility other than to grow weed and surf. I guess that would be nice to do if he didn’t have children he loves and needs to support. While I was reading these post I saw that for the majority of you there is no compromise in what you want. You guys just don’t get it how California goes this Nov. will be how the rest of the country will follow. You live in the most regulated state in our country. And you want to gripe about a little regulation on pot. You can’t get rich on 5x5 but you can grow more than enough to start. Cary an OZ my god what a wonderful concept, a quarter will damn near get you life here. So pull yourselves together get this done. Then you can start on the next step you don’t give a child a 12 gauge shot gun for his first hunt you start off with a smaller gauge and grow into a bigger one.
I thought just a few years ago why do have to take all these meds that the doctors were giving me. I got me a little weed started smoking again and now the doctors can kiss my ass. No side effects and I function I society again. I am drug and alcohol free. I don’t consider MJ a drug.
I hope I didn’t come off condescending I really like reading the post here and I am gaining knowledge. A whole lot of people quote my ggggggrandfather S Adams when downing Gov. regulation. He to realized that taxes were a necessary. Fire trucks, streets, bridges, clean water, schools for our children, don’t forget Leo he does other thins besides bust pot growers, the list goes on all paid for buy the thing we all hate TAXES. Some times good does come from evil.
This is my first post I hope I didn’t offend anyone. But the rest of the country is watching.
StoneElemental
Member
I won't refute anything you have said so far as I agree with most of if not all of your statements especially as I have deep empathy for what you are saying. I have to say I don't live in California or the gulf coast and regulation isn't SO bad here tho it's not even a MMJ state. I too grow tired of these gripes over regulations and sometimes I can't help but feel that it seems like some "west coast" attitude. The grow area described in prop 19 would land you in state prison for 10+ years in my state and carrying an ounce heck even half of that most times would blatantly say to law enforcement that you're trafficking or a dealer and easily land you in jail if not prison aswell. Carrying an ounce might as well be like carrying a case of beer with you everywhere you went if we went by the cliche comparison to alcohol. (by no means am I comparing cannabis to alcohol myself) 1. taxes can help our economy and deficits and tax is a necessary evil in our society. 2. regulation will help prevent minors who need not use it away from it til they're old enough and bring about a new realm of quality herb. 3.Less people less often will be charged with crimes over an herb (not a drug as the poster I'm quoting) 4. MMJ and prop 215 started a new trend and reform nationwide, let's keep the pressure on and end this needless prohibition.
As my personal reply to you bearded1 concerning the oil spill in the gulf I'm deeply remorseful something like that is even happening in your region. The kuwait oil spill set off by the iraqi's in the first gulf war was easily double that size and was quickly dispatched by the U.S. government in "defense" of someone else's homeland and it seems everyday we don't do enough and are stretched far too thin overseas to be able to take care of a mess that wasn't REGULATED ENOUGH to begin with in our own federal laws or at least enforced.. take care and stay safe.
-S.E.
As my personal reply to you bearded1 concerning the oil spill in the gulf I'm deeply remorseful something like that is even happening in your region. The kuwait oil spill set off by the iraqi's in the first gulf war was easily double that size and was quickly dispatched by the U.S. government in "defense" of someone else's homeland and it seems everyday we don't do enough and are stretched far too thin overseas to be able to take care of a mess that wasn't REGULATED ENOUGH to begin with in our own federal laws or at least enforced.. take care and stay safe.
-S.E.
And what's wrong with the libertarian position/party? The idea behind that party is to create as many freedoms as possible for the people as our forefathers intended with as little government interference or restriction possible. You're hostility is disheartening to even you're credibility IMO. The libertarians ARE for LESS GOVERNMENT, LESS UNIONS, and MORE FREEDOMS. Beyond that so many act like there can never be reform or repeal of laws yet you want reform and repeal over cannabis laws. Start actually taking a real stand in your life you can't always wait for the next best thing.
-S.E.
I pretty much have a life. And it doesn't orbit around the use of mj. You know, real things with real people. Living or moving to california just because they may legalize mj is less important to me then downsizing all governments.
In other words, I am not a single issue guy. I'm too smart and too busy for that grade school stuff.
But feel free to vote how you want. I always do.
StoneElemental
Member
Careful, your true colors are starting to show. I don't need to know of your irrelevant priorities and boastings of maturity and intelligence, I tried to make a point to converse not battle then be distracted with an uncalled for change of direction and pace. Do as you will but don't try to demean me in the process.
-S.E.
-S.E.
TOURIST POTENTIAL. Cali will become the a-dam of the west because adults can legally get pot here. it makes it even more of a vacation destination/ pot mecca.
Plus the flood of people from across the nation will come faster than any big company could get set up, so it will give small growers a chance to cash in on the increase in demand of small amounts, and get set up nicely.
Amsterdam weed relaxation has brought in over 9 billion euros a year since 2003. that is just one city. Imagine what the state of california can do. imagine all the americans that will go to cali over a-dam. it sure is prettier up in yosemite, or big sur, and a joint makes it better. I think the projected profits are way under estimated.
Plus the flood of people from across the nation will come faster than any big company could get set up, so it will give small growers a chance to cash in on the increase in demand of small amounts, and get set up nicely.
Amsterdam weed relaxation has brought in over 9 billion euros a year since 2003. that is just one city. Imagine what the state of california can do. imagine all the americans that will go to cali over a-dam. it sure is prettier up in yosemite, or big sur, and a joint makes it better. I think the projected profits are way under estimated.
Yeah. Besides all of that.. a ticket to amsterdam costs considerably more than a ticket to Cali, and the flight takes less time! You could fly to cali for a weekend of sampling and then fly home with your favorite seeds.
I know many people who would do this.
S
SilverSage
Here are two articles showing the positive effects of government controls concerning controlled substances.
Proof that Big Pharma and the government are the biggest drug dealers of death and destruction in the world. The prices of legal drugs are still skyrocketing, filling the pockets of greedy pill pushers and politicians.
The fear of many is that if cannabis is legalized that cash cow would dry up, hurting the bank accounts of Big Pharma execs and paid off politicians.
[
Proof that Big Pharma and the government are the biggest drug dealers of death and destruction in the world. The prices of legal drugs are still skyrocketing, filling the pockets of greedy pill pushers and politicians.
The fear of many is that if cannabis is legalized that cash cow would dry up, hurting the bank accounts of Big Pharma execs and paid off politicians.
[
What the Fuck? Are you stuck on stupid or something?. Its in the BILL and I've posted it up several times. Cant you read? Read the damb BILL or do i have to post it again. Geesh! LOL!
i think it may be more useful to consider what are the more plausible situations resulting from this legislation than trying to generate the worst case
there would be a huge sea change in how MJ is dealt with, there would be a presumption of legality as opposed to illegality
MJ smell, someone screaming 'i saw MJ', etc. become much less a cause of LEO action
sure the multi year sentences are not impossible, but likely?
most seem to see the differences current California law and this legislation as quite small for under 21 smokers
Prescrition drugs are as easy as pie to get 5 minutes in the Docs office (every 90 days buy law here) for pain meds. went from hydrocodine to oxi to hyro-morphine in less than a year. all the doc wanted was his $75 for the visit. didnt really listen to what my pain was or try to fix it just kept giving me more mind numbing crap. MJ was a life saver wish we had med cards here would make my life so much safer and easier. 
Yeah we should all vote no and let the continued persecution of hundreds of thousands of cannabis users so some brainless shithead doesn't feel left out because he's not 21 yet...
Is that what your really trying to say??? If it is I hope you an yer high school buddies all smoke a herpe infested joint and get fat bulbous brown warts in yer throat and lungs
this might be a re-post, oh well
This Bill is Majorly flawed!
Peron, co-author of Proposition 215, cites three "fatal flaws" in the Oaksterdamn U initiative . These can be described as limits, taxes, and penalties regarding minors.
Regarding the limits of one ounce and 25 square feet for personal cultivation:
"Imagine a law to “tax and regulate” alcohol that only allows for possession of up to one bottle of wine imprisoning those who exceed that amount, be it two bottles or a small collection of choice vintages. These limits guarantee confusion, harassment and black marketeering forevermore. We don’t control alcohol by imposing a 25 sq. foot limit on grape vines. But one extra gram or sq. foot of pot means jail and even worse; this initiative specifies that if accused of having too much cannabis the burden of proof is on you, not the state."
Regarding taxes:
"Singling out those who want to use marijuana for a huge excise tax is just plain unfair. It maintains cannabis as the most expensive, blatantly overpriced product on the market thus forcing most people to choose cheaper, more dangerous drugs with huge externalized costs to society as a whole."
Regarding minors:
"Sending teenagers to state prison for three years for pot is evil. This initiative mandates that 18, 19, and twenty year old minors serve three to seven year terms in California state prison for the crime of passing each other a joint or selling one another a small amount. Under this law if a 21 year old person passes a joint to a 20 year old he or she goes to county jail for six months. Likewise this measure has no exceptions for parents in their own homes from the “smoking cannabis in any space while minors are present” prohibition. We don’t lock up parents for having a glass of wine with dinner and we certainly don’t tell the kids to leave the house for the purpose of consuming any other substance so why start with cannabis?"
Peron vows that if the proponents "buy" enough signatures to get the initiative on the ballot he will campaign against it:
"This initiative is bad for parents, students and, ultimately, the effort to get the state to stop ruining lives enforcing these draconian pot laws. Initiatives create permanent statutes. This one with its petty restrictions for personal users, prohibitive unfair taxes, and mandatory state prison sentences for teen agers need be nipped in the bud. We will campaign and vote against it should its proponents succeed in purchasing the necessary number of signatures to put it on the 2010 ballot. The tax revenue it will supposedly generate is a mere smokescreen for the kids it will regulate into three, five and seven year state prison sentences."
VOTE NO!
This Bill is Majorly flawed!
Peron, co-author of Proposition 215, cites three "fatal flaws" in the Oaksterdamn U initiative . These can be described as limits, taxes, and penalties regarding minors.
Regarding the limits of one ounce and 25 square feet for personal cultivation:
"Imagine a law to “tax and regulate” alcohol that only allows for possession of up to one bottle of wine imprisoning those who exceed that amount, be it two bottles or a small collection of choice vintages. These limits guarantee confusion, harassment and black marketeering forevermore. We don’t control alcohol by imposing a 25 sq. foot limit on grape vines. But one extra gram or sq. foot of pot means jail and even worse; this initiative specifies that if accused of having too much cannabis the burden of proof is on you, not the state."
Regarding taxes:
"Singling out those who want to use marijuana for a huge excise tax is just plain unfair. It maintains cannabis as the most expensive, blatantly overpriced product on the market thus forcing most people to choose cheaper, more dangerous drugs with huge externalized costs to society as a whole."
Regarding minors:
"Sending teenagers to state prison for three years for pot is evil. This initiative mandates that 18, 19, and twenty year old minors serve three to seven year terms in California state prison for the crime of passing each other a joint or selling one another a small amount. Under this law if a 21 year old person passes a joint to a 20 year old he or she goes to county jail for six months. Likewise this measure has no exceptions for parents in their own homes from the “smoking cannabis in any space while minors are present” prohibition. We don’t lock up parents for having a glass of wine with dinner and we certainly don’t tell the kids to leave the house for the purpose of consuming any other substance so why start with cannabis?"
Peron vows that if the proponents "buy" enough signatures to get the initiative on the ballot he will campaign against it:
"This initiative is bad for parents, students and, ultimately, the effort to get the state to stop ruining lives enforcing these draconian pot laws. Initiatives create permanent statutes. This one with its petty restrictions for personal users, prohibitive unfair taxes, and mandatory state prison sentences for teen agers need be nipped in the bud. We will campaign and vote against it should its proponents succeed in purchasing the necessary number of signatures to put it on the 2010 ballot. The tax revenue it will supposedly generate is a mere smokescreen for the kids it will regulate into three, five and seven year state prison sentences."
VOTE NO!
and ive proven its actually a reduction in penalty from current law.
but you wont acknowledge that
instead you'll do what prohibition supporters HAVE to do in these debates....youll attack my person then lie about the bill.
read the intent statement of the bill....
ive posted it multiple times.
