LED Mythbusting, KILL A WATT proof

[rives]

I spoke to GSL. I need help on this from the experts. Basically, paraphrasing, he said with the new and better ballasts in this improved light, there will be fluctuation of wattage from 400 on up to the 500's. Stating also, there is no loss of proper light.

This is hard for me to grasp. I wish I had a kill-a-watt meter when I had my old gsl light. I would have had something to go on. But when it blew they replaced it (just a cpl weeks ago).

In the back of my mind, and what I've always done to get a basic idea on true wattage between brands is divide advertised actual draw by # of led's. Most of the better known lights tend to lay in the 1.9 watts per led area. Presently, with 405-410 kill-a-watt tested this shows up at 1.4w per led. And that just messes with my mind.

Can anyone confirm the theory behind the possible fluctuation and light intensity being equal?

*I have been checking every so often today and have not seen an upper range on the kill-a-watt. It's been steady at 404-405 watts area. But I just go in, peak, walk away.

The man is telling stories. As VG said, there should be no more than a few watts of fluctuation. The LED load should be pretty much dead steady unless they are reducing power when the temperature goes up, which would obviously dim the LEDs. There might be a minor fluctuation based on fan speed if they are controlling the fans based on temperature, but again, it should be very little.

 

[sx646522]

Grow Stealth LED 600w Pro Bloom. Advertised at 540w. Actual 410w wtf?

Actually, this makes a lot of sense.

What makes sense, is...

I spoke to GSL. I need help on this from the experts. Basically, paraphrasing, he said with the new and better ballasts in this improved light, there will be fluctuation of wattage from 400 on up to the 500's. Stating also, there is no loss of proper light.

Can anyone confirm the theory behind the possible fluctuation and light intensity being equal?

The man is telling stories. As VG said, there should be no more than a few watts of fluctuation.

...that this guy's full of hooey. Exactly, rives.


If he worked for Big Tobacco, this is the kinda person Dennis Miller used to say was 'lying through the hole in his trachea.'

(Tracheotomy...now, wasn't that an Alan Parsons song? )

 

[sx646522]

Most of the better known lights tend to lay in the 1.9 watts per led area. Presently, with 405-410 kill-a-watt tested this shows up at 1.4w per led. And that just messes with my mind.

*I have been checking every so often today and have not seen an upper range on the kill-a-watt. It's been steady at 404-405 watts area. But I just go in, peak, walk away.

Let's take a look at this for a second, and examine what a typical panel will draw, based on the chips used.

Around ~97.3% of all LED panels (within a Standard Deviation of ±1.34%) that people are using for growing...originate in China from the same ~dozen factories, all employing Epistar, SemiLED, and Bridgelux chips, or a close variation of.

(See, folks? 'Statistics'...)

In figuring a rough, estimated draw, my first guess was 'it's probably going to be around 70% red, 20% blue-green, and 10% IR')...

...and after blowing up a close-up of the Bloom panel and counting the actual LEDs used, turns out this # was accurate. Here's what I got from the ol' eyeballs:

• 200 Red
• 58 Blue/Green (16 green, 42 blue)
• 30 Infrared

(By the way, using green in an LED panel...is a dumb idea.)

By the way, GSL's site lists the same 550w draw for both their 'full spectrum' and their 'bloom' panel - even though a typical IR chip uses less than half the volts as a blue, green, or white, at the same current.

Very improbable - unless you're also taking out additional reds and back-filling with a precise number of blue and white, for example.

---------------

Most of the typical panels used around this time where the 'designers' (i.e. Marketers, usually with little or no actual knowledge of either LEDs - or plant physiology, for that matter - who were simply submitting RFQs to China manufacturers for drop-shipping) and were pushing the thermal management capabilities of these '3w' designs to their limits (eventually curtailed by the engineers, who know better, hopefully)...generally ran them @ ~500mA, which is ~43% higher than typical '1w' levels...in the same 1w boards using similar heatsinks and fans. Bad idea.

(The Grow LED Hydro/'Spectra' 2010 panels, etc. are a good example of this).

Using these chips, here is about what you'd expect to draw at this current, including for the eight fans used in the design, which employs a standard 12x24 (i.e. 288 chip) board:

So, using the typical emitter packages employed by these factories, at 500mA, you'd be getting something pretty close to what you've found, B.

Depending on how 'dirty' the power grid is in your area, your intra-day readings may vary within several watts, but no more than that.

--------------

Ok, so that's pretty typical, with these low-to-mid-grade chips. Now, if this panel was using good chips (CREE, OSRAM, LUXEON, etc.), and drawing roughly the same power from the circuit, what current would they have to run at in order to achieve this?

Using good, 1st-grade chips, one of the things you'll notice is that not only are they able to run at a lower forward voltage (Vf) than their competitors at the same current (a characteristic of all good chips), they also have less voltage drift as current increases - which makes them markedly more efficient, too.

Note that you're able to run these chips at ~70mA more (570 vs. 500), and still pull the same number of watts, which is impressive.

(Incidentally, if you're running all the LEDs on the same driver, which most of these models do, 570mA is about the highest current you'd want to run any particular string at, due to the performance characteristics of red LEDs.)

------------

So with a better chip, with this particular example, one might also infer that it's possible to:

• Run them at the same current (500mA), and use almost 50 fewer watts (!) (and a lot less heat), and still get more usable light, vs. your typical Epistar/SemiLEDs; or
• Run them at the same power (405-410w), and get TONS more light! (and still get less heat, due to increased conversion efficiency)

-------------------

Ok, so...what if they were actually running these panels at "3w" (i.e. 700mA), "Balls To The Wall" levels - a decision which would rank right up there with going into the ghetto at night,starting a land war in Asia, and Lindsay Lohan's acting turn in Herbie Fully Loaded?

(Note the forward voltage creep on these LEDs @ 700mA, vs. CREE/LUXEON - i.e. 3.8v vs ~3.3-3.4v for white/blue/green, and 2.7v vs. ~2.3v for red. That's a HUGE difference.)

Hmmm...apart from being able to fry an egg on the heatsink and having sparks spittin' off in all directions and setting the curtains on fire (which "all good growrooms have in 'em"...right?), looks like you'd get right around 600w, while it lasted.

------------

Just be glad you're not actually drawing more - otherwise, that would be horrible for your thermal management, and thus your longevity.

But...yeah, they really need to update their site.

Here, let me help...I've got this ball peen hammer handy that should just about 'do the trick'.


Cheers,

-SX

 

[VerdantGreen]

......
(By the way, using green in an LED panel...is a dumb idea.)

......

-SX

why?, have you ever grown a plant using a panel with green LED's in it??
presumably you think some kind of white would be better?

would love to see some of the plants you've grown SX

 

[zymos]

why?, have you ever grown a plant using a panel with green LED's in it??
presumably you think some kind of white would be better?

would love to see some of the plants you've grown SX

I read that post about the green LEDS, and thought "uh oh- them's fightin' words!"

 

[GP73LPC]

oh yeah GP i need to get you a pic of the two hgl units - ive measured the draw but didnt take a pic.

the 126eco+ was 44w

and the 21X2-pro was 28w

VG

thanks man, i will add this info to the retailer chart too...

 

[VerdantGreen]

I read that post about the green LEDS, and thought "uh oh- them's fightin' words!"

yeah the first LED panel i ever saw with green diodes was my own custom panel, and i requested green after lot of research and discussions with spurr - who sadly got banned from here some time ago.
in the end after much testing of green vs. white (as in actually growing plants under the different spectrums), HGL stuck with the green for their 3rd generation spectrum. im quite proud of that, and my dumb custom panel has grown some great weed.

VG

 

[Bennyweed1]

GLH (growledhydro)

Dont know if he is still around but the guy made some great lights. Im glad I got some when I did.

2010 model 120w Spectra

panel 1
Rated:120w
Actual: 171w

panel 2
Rated: 120w
Actual: 171.5w

panel 3
Rated: 120w
Actual: 156w

All these lights are about 2.3yrs old so the power draw as for sure dropped down from when I first got them. They still rock though.

 

[Phychotron]

http://ledgrowlightsreview.org/category/led-grow-lights-general-information/

good info on led's and whatnot, like this one: Understanding Watts, Amps, and Volts in LED Grow Lights

 

[sx646522]

I read that post about the green LEDS, and thought "uh oh- them's fightin' words!"

Hehe...we're not back at the schoolyard again, are we? I'd say we're far more civilized and genteel over here, z. Discussion is good; it gets the juices flowing.

...After all, this isn't GC, you know!

why?, have you ever grown a plant using a panel with green LED's in it??
presumably you think some kind of white would be better?

yeah the first LED panel i ever saw with green diodes was my own custom panel, and i requested green after lot of research and discussions with spurr - who sadly got banned from here some time ago.
in the end after much testing of green vs. white (as in actually growing plants under the different spectrums), HGL stuck with the green for their 3rd generation spectrum. im quite proud of that, and my dumb custom panel has grown some great weed.

VG

Hmmm, perhaps there is some misunderstanding here, so let me rephrase that a bit:

• Having some green (and yellow) light emitted from either your panel or via supplementary lighting is good, as I have mentioned previously in earlier discussions with knna and others

• Providing said light from monochromatic green LEDs, however...is a less efficient way of going about it, and probably not the best source to use

Not doubting the veracity of your results VG, just looking at the overall efficacy of the solution.

Since this is the 'watts' thread and we want it to stay on track, probably better if I open a new one to explain; will do that in the next day or so. This is one of those things that should probably be categorized under 'Mythbusting', methinks...

would love to see some of the plants you've grown SX

No problem, though you might have to wait a bit. Right now I've got a whole house worth's (~2500 s.f.) of stuff in storage on two continents, hopefully things'll get 'back to normal' in our household by early fall (and I'll finally be in a MMJ-approved state, for once...the missus and I are planning a house hunting trip this summer) and I'll be able to run something again. I can toss it in the Micro section for y'all once it's up.

Not really one to keep 'evidence' around, but if you know exactly where to look, you may still find proof of one of my past 'transgressions'...

(I ran a couple of journals back in '00-01, and haven't documented them since - for legal reasons as well as the 'P.I.T.A. (i.e. 'Pain In The Ass') quotient'.)

Edit: Well, what do you know, I actually found one, though it didn't survive wholly intact. Too bad the pics dropped off the server, though...those were some nice plants if I recall.

...Damn, must be gettin' old, folks...<sigh>


I'd love to, as they say, 'teach the new dogs some old tricks', myself. Maybe it's about time I run one again - stay tuned.

good info on led's and whatnot, like this one: Understanding Watts, Amps, and Volts in LED Grow Lights[/URL]

Hey Phy, aside from some of the articles, you do know that's a thinly veiled affiliate site, right? Almost every 'review' (the 'good ones', anyway - the 'bad' ones refer you to one of the 'good review' pages) has a link with a tracking cookie that gives the site owner $$$ credit when you buy using it (using a typical php redirect, apparently. Those are the 'sitename.com/go/xxxxx/' links you'll see). The reviews are stacked so that the lights he wants you to buy are listed in reverse-order, generally. Pretty standard for that sort of thing.

Also, the 'should I make my own DIY panel?' post intentionally uses crappy 5-10mm LEDs as his example, so as to steer you towards buying one of the lights recommended in his 'reviews' that he actually makes money from, instead.

Linking to it like that actually helps his SEO (Search Engine Optimization), making him more money.

I don't know about you, but when someone is compensated for doing a 'review' like that (whether real, or not), I tend to take whatever they say with a grain of salt.

Much better to look at grows and read other comments from a forum and not a 'money site', in my opinion, unless you want to throw the objectivity of said 'information' right out the window.

Forewarned is forearmed!


Cheers,

-SX

 

[Bassy59]

SO SX, you're basically saying my light is junk then right?

 

[VerdantGreen]

Hmmm, perhaps there is some misunderstanding here, so let me rephrase that a bit:

• Having some green (and yellow) light emitted from either your panel or via supplementary lighting is good, as I have mentioned previously in earlier discussions with knna and others

• Providing said light from monochromatic green LEDs, however...is a less efficient way of going about it, and probably not the best source to use

Not doubting the veracity of your results VG, just looking at the overall efficacy of the solution.

Since this is the 'watts' thread and we want it to stay on track, probably better if I open a new one to explain; will do that in the next day or so. This is one of those things that should probably be categorized under 'Mythbusting', methinks...

.....

hi SX, yes thats certainly a more diplomatic way of stating your opinion
i agree that the question of whether to add green through monochromatic led;s or white ones is open to debate, but imo and experience, using green works better than white. granted the total light output of a white diode is higher than a green, but the total green output of a white is less than the total green output of a green LED... and green is what im after. it seems pointless to me to balance the spectrums carefully and then throw a load of white at it - thats more of an HPS thinking imo.
often using LED's the red and blue absorbance is approaching it's maximum and as we know
"Green Light Drives Leaf Photosynthesis More Efficiently than Red Light in Strong White Light"
(strong white light means a mixture of red and blue for our purposes)) so adding specific green gives a whole new level of photosynthetic capability for the plant. adding white gives more blue and red too which may not get used as well as pure green even if the overall output is higher.
ive used these typed of extra light in panels so far:
15% white - i found it caused a bit too much stretch
5% white - not enough stretch - yield suffered
15% green just right

the use of green light by plants is only just being properly researched and some quite interesting effects are being discovered, such as green influencing stretch in a similar way to red/far red ratio, green is also reflected by leaves and some passes through them, and so penetrates the canopy much deeper than red or blue which is mostly absorbed

as for the efficiency of green diodes, my lamp is balanced with a quantum sensor, and if 1 diode out of every 21 can provide 15% green in the spectrum then i cant see how they can be that inefficient.

VG

 

[VerdantGreen]

SO SX, you're basically saying my light is junk then right?

bassy, i wouldnt worry too much, SX has a lot of knowledge of LED's for sure, but from what i see he also has a fanatical hatred of ALL commercial LED manufacturers who he thinks are just in it for a fast buck. so he thinks all lamps are junk unless you made it yourself.

you wait till you smoke some of that weed, you might be pleasantly surprised. i agree it can be annoying when a product isnt quite what the manufacturer claims, but now you know its a 400w light you can at least judge it accordingly

VG

 

[zymos]

Hehe...we're not back at the schoolyard again, are we? I'd say we're far more civilized and genteel over here, z. Discussion is good; it gets the juices flowing.

You've been a member of IC since 2009 and you think THAT ??

Sheesh! We aren't like that at all...

 

[Phychotron]

Hey Phy, aside from some of the articles, you do know that's a thinly veiled affiliate site, right? Almost every 'review' (the 'good ones', anyway - the 'bad' ones refer you to one of the 'good review' pages) has a link with a tracking cookie that gives the site owner $$$ credit when you buy using it (using a typical php redirect, apparently. Those are the 'sitename.com/go/xxxxx/' links you'll see). The reviews are stacked so that the lights he wants you to buy are listed in reverse-order, generally. Pretty standard for that sort of thing.

woah, stop the press, someone might actually make buck with URL referral on the internet... Get me the police.... No but seriously, there are tons of types of competing referral programs (long before the internet) that encourage young enthusiastic people to collect data on not just one product, but many and then try to let the customer decide. Buisness's who sell competing products will often try and push the brand that makes a little more $, sure, but you don't discourage ANY product that you sell, even if it makes you less $, you still make money when you sell it.

under reviews, the penetrator is first, followed by the blackstar 240, same as under the recommendation page, which also includes the unreviewed 500 blackstar as number 3.

did you read the affiliate disclosure? probably not...

Also, the 'should I make my own DIY panel?' post intentionally uses crappy 5-10mm LEDs as his example, so as to steer you towards buying one of the lights recommended in his 'reviews' that he actually makes money from, instead.

Linking to it like that actually helps his SEO (Search Engine Optimization), making him more money.

well no one is really close to building their own grow light, a few people are interested, but the general population is mostly consumers. I thought about it for a split second when I was first getting into it. Anyone serious about building a panel is going to do some research because they are into the challenge of building it.

I hope this guy makes money, we need to stimulate the economy!

I don't know about you, but when someone is compensated for doing a 'review' like that (whether real, or not), I tend to take whatever they say with a grain of salt.

i understand your skepticism, but you cant judge a website by it's url. read the affiliate disclosure.

Much better to look at grows and read other comments from a forum and not a 'money site', in my opinion, unless you want to throw the objectivity of said 'information' right out the window.

Forewarned is forearmed!

that's pretty much what the guy running the site is doing, and compiling what he thinks if valuable info. I actually considered building a site like this after reading a bunch of info on LED's, and figured I'd be able to make a little cash on the side if someone bought a light (and i'm TOTALLY against making money on shitty equipment.) If he was truly trying to make as much $ as possible he probably wouldn't allow comments under his reviews.

 

[rives]

well no one is really close to building their own grow light, a few people are interested, but the general population is mostly consumers. I thought about it for a split second when I was first getting into it. Anyone serious about building a panel is going to do some research because they are into the challenge of building it.

Where did you get this impression? If you look around on here, you will find a number of DIY fixtures that people have built (about 1-1/2" below this line, for one).

 

[sx646522]

SO SX, you're basically saying my light is junk then right?

No, not necessarily. Just that you were sold something different from what they advertised. They should call it a 400w light (as VG suggested), not 550. I'm sure that if you were to talk to the manufacturer directly, and not a reseller, they would have told you that information up front.

Most of the issues I've seen from folks are from them getting bad information from the seller, and not from the factory doing the actual assembly. Ones that do theirs all in-house (like LumiGrow and California LightWorks) don't seem to have that problem.

Since you were expecting to pay ~$2.45/watt, seems like they should charge no more than $1000 for that light.

It's unfair, and you shouldn't have to put up with it, you know? We don't expect that kind of treatment from any other consumer product that we buy.

As long as you're happy with the final product and the light works, then the question is really how you feel about it. But, is their sales page somewhat deceptive? Yes.

No getting around that; they sold you something other than advertised.

bassy, i wouldnt worry too much, SX has a lot of knowledge of LED's for sure, but from what i see he also has a fanatical hatred of ALL commercial LED manufacturers who he thinks are just in it for a fast buck. so he thinks all lamps are junk unless you made it yourself.

Lol, 'hates all distributors'? That's a good one, VG. Whatever Wonder Weed it is that you're smokin', good buddy, I want some!


Both DIY and DFY have their advantages and disadvantages; just like with housing, most of the market wants a place already finished, not a build-it-from-scratch or fixer-upper. Those will always be a niche crowd.

This is the semiconductor market, it's no different than selling a computer or any other high-tech chip-based gear, The only difference is it's making light instead of crunching 0's and 1's.

I think there's a place in the already-done-for-you market both for low, mid, and high-end systems, with price points to match. Every product has pros and cons; as long as folks know what those are going in, then that makes them a more informed customer - and helps manage their expectations of performance down the road.

I just think (that) consumers should have certain expectations of any vendor they're patrons of, and if they don't get their needs met at one place, they should go elsewhere.

Is there a place for middlemen? Sure there is. You can put a $ figure on knowledge, service and support (both pre- and post- sales), local stock (most LED middlemen don't), warranty point-of-service (most will simply forward it to the manufacturer and have them drop ship the replacements to you), and 'peace of mind'. But prove to me that you add value first.


Here's what I like:

• Sellers that tell you exactly what you're getting
• When a website lists 'actual watts'...it shows ACTUAL WATTS! This should be mandatory on all sites
• Good customer service and support both before - and AFTER - the sale
• Competitively priced products that don't gouge the customer
• If there is a middleman, he ADDS VALUE to the transaction, in exchange for a fair markup
• Transparency from the seller

Here's what I don't like:

• Sales folks that are deceptive
• Distributors where the customer service ends with the sale. Got a problem? Too bad!
• Products that sacrifice life expectancy, cost-of-repair, and total cost of ownership (TCO) in favor of cost-cutting
• Middlemen that markup products 100% or more, and add little or no value

Well, what's a fair markup, right? Is it:

1) Whatever the market will bear, regardless of value added? or
2) Commensurate with the level of service, support, or solution provided?

In most channels (a channel being a 'path-to-market between the manufacturer and the end customer'), distribution should be able to procure between ~40-70% markup on these types of products in exchange for value added, and more only if there is a HVA or core competency that the distributor or OEM brings to the table for the customer's solution.

(I say this as someone who used to be a Marketing Manager for a $2B+ a year business unit in a high-tech industrial arm of a well known multinational corporation (MNC), one whose products rives is probably rather familiar with given his background, and who was in Product Management for several years before that. If I ran across any channel or partner of ours that treated their customers in a similar fashion to some of the ones in the LED space, strategic or not, I would review their contract immediately, contact the Sales Manager for their region, and have them look for a new partner at the earliest opportunity.)

----

Now, is that too much to ask? I think not - and most folks would agree. In any other business, that would be considered a MINIMUM level of service, and embody a 'fair practice' doctrine.

After all, we expect exactly that of every other consumer product we buy, so why not LEDs?

And if we don't like our service or selection at one place, we should be able to 'fire the seller', and find a better one. Customers have the most power here: they get the opportunity to speak with their wallets.


But if I run across some strange, make-you-have-a Scooby-Doo-like "...Huuuunnnnnnnhhhhhh????" moment from some seller - then yeah, I'm going to say, "Hey guys, you'll never believe it - just look what this guy did!"

Treating their customers with respect...should not be a foreign concept.

--------

If anyone's noticed that 'I'm kinda colorful' when I write sometimes, though - well, yeah, sure. Gotta liven up all that math and science somehow! This is an 'indica heavy crowd', as you know - don't want people falling asleep at the wheel on us. All those oncoming cars are movin' fast. Any Lindsay Lohan references are thus intentionally placed there for their strategic value...

More folks need to not take things so seriously, though, in any event. I've got the perfect solution - and it's called Sativa.


Thanks for your comments on your experience with green, by the way, VG - they're certainly helpful. It's an interesting area of research, to be sure. Some good info has come out of that area in the last decade, especially.

(more on that later)

Reaching ~15% radiometric efficacy at operating drive current and temp in the panel with green LEDs, though...does sound a bit high to me (no pun intended).

woah, stop the press, someone might actually make buck with URL referral on the internet...

Funny! No worries, as long as you know what you're looking at. (Just wanted to make sure everyone else did, too.) Affiliates have been around in one form or another since the Sumerians:

"Pssst - hey there, buddy, wanna buy some arable land with its own aquifer? Have I got the perfect irrigation channel for you - it's great! Low mileage!"

(The Aff disclosure was the 1st thing I read; most people don't, though. That's the problem.)

That's not your site, now, is it? (jk)

well no one is really close to building their own grow light, a few people are interested, but the general population is mostly consumers. I thought about it for a split second when I was first getting into it. Anyone serious about building a panel is going to do some research because they are into the challenge of building it...

In general, I agree. Most folks aren't into building a microwave from scratch, either - they just want something that'll heat up a damn Hot Pocket!

But there are more than you'd think - and with sites like modularled.ca and RapidLED gaining in popularity and assisting in ease-of-construction, you'll see more folks interested in these over time. These days, if you remember how to use Elmer's glue and can snap two things together, you can build your own fixture.

If he was truly trying to make as much $ as possible he probably wouldn't allow comments under his reviews.

Actually, that generally works in the site owner's favor, too. Most comments are still moderated; even negative ones are useful as vehicles to respond to, esp. if they have common questions. Sites without comments on them seem unnatural, as well. It's all designed to build trust.

Wordpress also pings bookmarking sites and RSS feeds and google/MS bots when anything's updated, including comments, helping to improve their SEO further.

You've been a member of IC since 2009 and you think THAT ??

Sheesh! We aren't like that at all...

Ok, so maybe I was being a little 'optimistic' on purpose...it's called 'appealing to our better natures'.


"J'ever notice that how nice a person is towards you is inversely proportional to the distance they are away from you at the time? The closer you are, the nicer they get!"

-George Carlin (RIP)


-SX

 

[Pig Pen]

SX, you and I are kindred spirits.
Your view on LEDs are spot on in my opinion, both the EE and marketing. I'm looking forward to the thread you will be starting.

I understand the inherent lack of efficiency of monochromatic green in comparison to other chromatic LEDs. Someday there might be a process for manufacturing more efficient Greens, but today is not that day.

White is also less efficient than any of the monochromatic LED since it is a monochromatic LED with a lens coated with a phosphorous or other doping to tranfer the photon energy to a white light that the outside emits. This cannot occur without another loss of light at present, so again less efficient.

So it is not black or white, but shades of grey in terms of efficiency.

Another wavelength that LEDs are poor performers are UV spectra. Yeah, they make them, but are less efficient in terms of how many photons per given time are emitted compared the wavelengths used in our arrays.

And considering everything that is happening in the real world, show what you feel comfortable in terms of a grow. Not everyone lives in a Med State and we all should be a little more tolerant. I know many folk who are not certain which way the legalization process is heading. Less are unwilling to put their freedom on the line with photos than just a year ago.

At any rate, a great conversation on all sides.

 

[Phychotron]

I wasn't trying to say no one is building them, but that it's not nearly as popular as buying a light, as newbs probably should. I would love to build my own one day, but that's one of those future goals when i have some free time and money to experiment. I agree it's a growing trend for sure though.


of course there are guides out there that are better suited for a grow light, my point is that anyone serious about building one would go find those guides before just ordering the parts for the one panel off the first set of instructions they come across.

SX, which led fixture do you recommend?


oh, as for anyone claiming that no green is needed, how do you explain that when the PAR graph clearly shows that the curve does not baseline in the green spectrum?

 

[Pig Pen]

No on said it wasn't needed, it was only suggested that monchromatic green LEDs have poor efficiency. There IS a difference.

I know of at least 3 others on this board alone that require no guides, and in fact used their own real world experience. Some of us have designed far more complicated and cutting edge devices in the "real world job" (as opposed to reading about them). In fact, my first fixture was made using experience I garnered while designing LED surgical lights and preceded even the UFO style that were weak and relatively useless.