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LED Mythbusting, KILL A WATT proof

T_B_M

Member
Kill-A-Watts tell what the light is drawing in total. This does not account for losses in AC-DC conversion and fans, which isn't a whole lot. Power draw from the wall determines operating power of the LEDs. When they advertise their light is 300W, but only driven at half power, its actually 150W.

LED types/brands do matter also since cheap Chinese LEDs will take more power to emit the same light as Cree and other high quality emitters that will output the same amount of light with less power. For instance, the new Cree XTE royal blue LED is forging the new standard of higher efficiency due to its lower Vf and more output power at the same current at the XPE. It also has a more uniform light distribution over the viewing angle. I hope they have other colors coming in the XTE series. I'm waiting to build more for this series to expand.

I wouldn't use a commercial lamp other than ones proven to use top emitters and rate their power draw appropriately. Most just rate the light on LED maximum power, not actual driven power to trick unknowing consumers. Too bad there are a lot of shady people out there trying to make a quick buck rather than a great product.

Great thread, gives people a heads up on who is just trying to make a quick buck vs. making a decent product. Although most won't jump intot he LED world until it can compete with HPS in price. They are becoming more efficient and running cooler, so that is one advantage. I wouldn't expect a commercial lamp to run as cool as a DIY light with top quality emitters though since they load the case with fans, I'm betting there are hot spots on the heat sink due to the tightly packed array on a thin heat sink to save costs.
 

magiccannabus

Next Stop: Outer Space!
Veteran
I really would like to have seen them compare the Philips Mastercolor Retro White CMH lamps. The SPD on them is far better than either MH or HPS.

LED clearly is advancing, but it's obvious that the technology is still rough. Hell, even digital HID ballasts are still not ironed out completely and now we have a new technology gaining a foothold. Meanwhile, guys like me who are scientific enough to understand the ideas involved, but not interested enough to learn a college-degree's worth of knowledge about LEDs are left not wanting to risk money on LED. If I buy my own, they're absurdly expensive, and if I build my own, it's tedious work and tons of knowledge required. There's really no good excuse for the price of LED systems either. They contain so much less actual material than HID systems. The power drivers are more complicated, but they're usually electronic and thus also should be cheaper.

I always hear "in a few years, everyone will be using LED to grow". At the rate things are developing, maybe in 5 years that will be true, but not until the price goes way down, they get full UL listing, and the consistency goes way up.
 

GP73LPC

Strain Collector/Seed Junkie/Landrace Accumulator/
Veteran
I really would like to have seen them compare the Philips Mastercolor Retro White CMH lamps. The SPD on them is far better than either MH or HPS.

LED clearly is advancing, but it's obvious that the technology is still rough. Hell, even digital HID ballasts are still not ironed out completely and now we have a new technology gaining a foothold. Meanwhile, guys like me who are scientific enough to understand the ideas involved, but not interested enough to learn a college-degree's worth of knowledge about LEDs are left not wanting to risk money on LED. If I buy my own, they're absurdly expensive, and if I build my own, it's tedious work and tons of knowledge required. There's really no good excuse for the price of LED systems either. They contain so much less actual material than HID systems. The power drivers are more complicated, but they're usually electronic and thus also should be cheaper.

I always hear "in a few years, everyone will be using LED to grow". At the rate things are developing, maybe in 5 years that will be true, but not until the price goes way down, they get full UL listing, and the consistency goes way up.

they are pretty much just as expensive to build your own. these things aren't cheap, the parts cost add up...

take a look at this thread for an idea of what LED's are doing and have been doing for the last couple years... all of the guys listed in the thread consistently yield over a pound at harvest.

post:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=4683990&postcount=35

thread:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=221520

and then there is this thread with a table right up front that shows what kind of grams per watt people are getting and have been getting for several years...

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=211911


led technology is here and is alive and well... expensive yes, productive yes...


:tiphat:
 

magiccannabus

Next Stop: Outer Space!
Veteran
Thanks for the reply. I see that the LEDs do work. I know they are technically here, but they are still very confusing to the newbies. There's a lot of scams, and from what I am reading, very few commercial units have the quality of power supply that they should have. It's just a whirlwind of new tech, wild price ranges, wild claims, and outright conflicting first-hand accounts. Habeeb had a light that is top quality, and he still had a 30% output drop on one end of his lights. There's just a lot being ironed out. I believe LED is the future, I believe it can even be the now for those who can sort it all out, but we're far from the simplicity of HID purchasing.
 

yoss33

Well-known member
Veteran
I believe it will all settle down when LEDs become so cheap that the big players in lighting (Philips, Osram, etc.) bring real solutions in big numbers for the masses. Quality and ease of use will definitely increase. Now LED lighting in the range of hundreds of watts is a small specialized niche.
But LED emiters (many diodes packed together) in the range of 50-100W, cheaper than $1/W are already readily available, so I guess the big companies are very soon to enter the game and offer even cheaper and complete substitutions of HPS and MH.
 

analogue

Member
Kessil 350, Magenta

73 watts, initial
71 watts after 30 minutes
 

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Phychotron

Member
picture.php

Blackstar 500

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Blackstar 240, first one

picture.php

Blackstar 240, ordered a few months later but has detachable cord and pulls more wattage.


picture.php

Advanced LED 400w Diamond series


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Advanced LED 180w Extreme Flower.

I'm done with blackstar because of their wattage confusion. I'm getting good results from the diamond series from Advanced LED.
 

GP73LPC

Strain Collector/Seed Junkie/Landrace Accumulator/
Veteran
wow, very cool Pychotron...

thanks for those readings... i am gonna update my LED Retailer charts with those figures...

:tiphat:
 

Phychotron

Member
my bro has the advanced led 740 extreme flower, it was pulling very close to that when i checked, close enough to call it at 740. And his 100w Diamond series was about 95-100 if i recall.

He also has some other fixtures i'll make sure to get readings on as well (in a few months). One of the first things I got was a Kill-a-watt in order to compare LED fixtures. I initially wanted a par meter, but that's way too spendy for a real par meter.
 

GP73LPC

Strain Collector/Seed Junkie/Landrace Accumulator/
Veteran
very cool Phychotron, look forward to more updates from you !!!!
 

Bassy59

Member
wow, now I'm pissed. I keep thinking it's my mistakes in growing until I see this. Now I could be wrong, all I did was plug in the brand new kill a watt then the LED when the lights had just turned on.

Tell me if I did it wrong.

Grow Stealth LED 600w Pro Bloom. Advertised at 540w. Actual 410w wtf?

Edit: I'm contacting GSL to correct this issue. It could just be an unusual problem unit. If they replace the unit I will then give the new kill-a-watt readings.
 

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GP73LPC

Strain Collector/Seed Junkie/Landrace Accumulator/
Veteran
yea, the difference of 130 watts is most definitely affecting your final yield numbers...

thanks for the update :tiphat:
 

Bassy59

Member
I spoke to GSL. I need help on this from the experts. Basically, paraphrasing, he said with the new and better ballasts in this improved light, there will be fluctuation of wattage from 400 on up to the 500's. Stating also, there is no loss of proper light.

This is hard for me to grasp. I wish I had a kill-a-watt meter when I had my old gsl light. I would have had something to go on. But when it blew they replaced it (just a cpl weeks ago).

In the back of my mind, and what I've always done to get a basic idea on true wattage between brands is divide advertised actual draw by # of led's. Most of the better known lights tend to lay in the 1.9 watts per led area. Presently, with 405-410 kill-a-watt tested this shows up at 1.4w per led. And that just messes with my mind.

Can anyone confirm the theory behind the possible fluctuation and light intensity being equal?

*I have been checking every so often today and have not seen an upper range on the kill-a-watt. It's been steady at 404-405 watts area. But I just go in, peak, walk away.
 

VerdantGreen

Genetics Facilitator
Boutique Breeder
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
ive not seed much more the 2 or 3 watts fluctuation on a 200w odd led and smaller on a watt meter.

one thing to bear in mind too is the operating temperature - which will effect the lifespan of the diodes etc. the more watts they push through the higher the temp. i believe around 1.5w per 3w led is what my hgl unit draws...
 

VerdantGreen

Genetics Facilitator
Boutique Breeder
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
oh yeah GP i need to get you a pic of the two hgl units - ive measured the draw but didnt take a pic.

the 126eco+ was 44w

and the 21X2-pro was 28w

VG
 
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