LED Lab 2009

[billyjojimbob11]

Well guys, I'm nearly convinced that amber trumps white. Here are the gals a week and a half left before harvest. I immediately saw some extra growth and even more tightening of buds with the amber. Of course, more test will have to be done by others to confirm. Knna, earlier your indication that it may help with a sooner finish timemay hold true. These are the biggest led girls I've had yet. GL HF

 

[knna]

Congrats, billyjojimbob! Very nice buds there

Yep, each day the usefullness of yellow-amber is more confirmed. I think now is more a matter of how much to add than if add it or not.

Fortunatelly, the new Rebel amber (590nm) has largely improved the efficiency of LEDs of that range, so now its possible to add it on a more cost effective way and costing less watts.

 

[billyjojimbob11]

Yes, I agree, for the record this is about %10 amber, maybe see what 20% will do next?

 

[unthing]

Very interesting. Do t5s provide amber enough, just asking cause I have them around. Back to the leds. Good experiments billyjimbob.

 

[Architechno]

just wondering if anyone has experimented with the lights at http://www.ecoleds.com/Products.html
They screw right into a standard socket, looks like they could be pretty handy... do any of those look appealing to you knowledgable LED gurus?

 

[clonedoctor420@]

@CloneDoc EZ-Cloner's are a vastly overpriced I would say, for $50 you could have a 16 site like me using 1 of "The Mist Maker" from Mainland Mart, now I know you made the investment in the EZ-Clooner so my question is does it have a sizable amount of water inside constituting a reservoir? If so then adding an ultrasonic fogger to it combined with the existing aeroponic spray system couldn't hurt and it will be leveraging your existing investment while enhancing your root growth rates. I don't have a camera to my self, otherwise I'd have done a thread on how easy it's to build, but there are already threads on here discussing it, just keyword search "ultrasonic fog", it might take some sorting but you'll find the relevant threads. One thing I can attest is my clones I started in Jiffy plugs are lagging horribly behind my ultrasonic fogged clones. Next crop will be all fog clones because of this issue.

i have done the DIY thing in the past but it's much easier on my back to just buy pre-built, hooking the fogger to the ez-clone should be pretty easy though.

 

[Fafafooey]

wow, this thread showed me just how ignorant I am of LEDs. And to think, I was thinking about wiring up a bunch of 5mms. Here's my current plan, let me know what you guys think:

The grow area will be a 12" by 16" (1.33 sq ft) scrog, and the veg area will be similarly dimensioned. From what I can tell, the Luxeon K2's seem pretty good, and I was thinking of using the following-

flowering: 8 red
3 royal blue
2 amber
all driven at 1000mA for a theoretical total of 45.5 watts.

veg: 6 red
2 royal blue
2 amber
also driven at 1000mA, @ 35 watts.

the only other spectrum I would like to add if I can find a @3watt LED is UVA for flowering. And maybe a Near IR as well. If nothing else, I bet UVA would keep pests and infections at bay.


I found a vendor selling a 24 vdc, 6.5A power supply unit, and so I was thinking this would be good to use with those dc/dc buckpucks. Is that the most energy efficient way to wire these things? Also, you may have noticed the power supply unit has a large enough capacity to handle both lights. Of course, to do this, I need a dc timer, and I've had a hell of a time sourcing one. Does anyone know where they can be found, or how to wire a conventional ac timer to switch the dc circuit for the veg light? Otherwise, getting 2 power supply units would be feasible, and they'd probably last longer and stay cooler that way anyway.

As far as mounting, I was thinking I'd put them on aluminum strips connected together to form an open frame, and 1 or 2 cooling fans over them blowing downward. This would serve a secondary function of fanning and aerating the scrog.

Anyway, thats my working concept right now, how does it sound? The last thing I want to do is invest the time and money and screw it up.

 

[Jay_Druthers]

Quantum dot led lamps

Quantum dot led lamps

These are finally hitting the market, may take quite a few of them to do much good and around 90$ each to get 5000 lumens worth would take around ten of them but 10 x 7.8 watts is only 900$ for 78 watts. maybe some one can do a spd analysis of these. here is a basic pdf info of them. Still only 600 lumens each so get very far and they drop off fast.

 

[LeoRexTyrannus]

i have done the DIY thing in the past but it's much easier on my back to just buy pre-built, hooking the fogger to the ez-clone should be pretty easy though.

I don't think this project would be that strenuous even for people in wheelchairs, it merely involves a little hole drilling, and neoprene or stg inserts, a little water filling, and placing the disc with floater in it and turning it on.

I could definitely see the issue with DIY on a larger cabinet project though. Funny you were talking of your back mine just started aching for the first time in my life steady a couple days ago, good luck with yours.

@Jay lumens do not fit plant growth they're used by the HID community because there has been extensive experiments to approximate how many lumens you need from what distance from how many watts.

A better measure would be PAR (Photo Active Radiation) watts, or photon related values like micro einsteins. umol.

This spot light types are always overpriced for what you're getting grow wise, this is to both Jay and Architechno. For the wattage you're getting you're paying far far too much at those prices. You would be better off getting one of Prosources offerings as several people here have testified they're good quality builds for very affordable prices.

Weezard and another gentlemen I can't name got offerings in UFO style from Tiny Bear Workshop on Ebay I believe and they attested to the build quality and fairness of price.

I suggest you wait a year as a novice or unskilled tinkerer before you replace what you're doing now. Using LED as a supplemental is advised until 2010. By then costs will have fallen, breakthroughs will have been made and I feel based on what I see from people on this thread is that that sounds about the right time to convert into an all or nothing system.

In the mean time use LED for vegetative growth as it's fantastic at it, and will save you money over HID and flourescent. This is not to say that you couldn't do a full grow with what is available now, Billy is doing it, Weezard is doing it, and they're having good results, look two pages back for some recent examples on Amber breakthroughs and revelations about Whites not having significant differences between them.

With that said Weezard speaks highly of the very affordable UFO's from Tiny Bear Workshop on Ebay, many have given positive word to Prosource's offerings.

You should default to guidance from the people doing the actual experiments they've bought a lot of these units for themselves and they build them too so they have the best balance of opinion.

 

[LeoRexTyrannus]

My Friend developed a full spectrum led grow light, he let me barrow one to see how I like it. He said he uses 6 spectrums of light and this led grow light cant be compared to their led grow lights out on the market right now. These are my results so far day 17 into flowering. By the way this is my first time growing indoors and I really think he nailed it with this 6 spectrum light. Let me know what you guys think.

The two tall plants are skunk #1

Front left train wreck

Front right white widow

Those plants look great, is your friend selling those? I'd love to hear prices.

Did you veg the front too? For the growth they have, they look amazing, I was particularly impressed with how many fine hairs they've developed almost looks like a cola at that density.

 

[LeoRexTyrannus]

thought you guys might want to see this-the 180 watt jumbo ufo.Got her for 300US-as long as I do a journal with it.

Those with some Amber added might just be the ticket for enclosed.

 

[clonedoctor420@]

I don't think this project would be that strenuous even for people in wheelchairs, it merely involves a little hole drilling, and neoprene or stg inserts, a little water filling, and placing the disc with floater in it and turning it on.

I could definitely see the issue with DIY on a larger cabinet project though. Funny you were talking of your back mine just started aching for the first time in my life steady a couple days ago, good luck with yours.

my back is FUCT. just going to the store looking for all the parts would be a problem. unless you have serious back problems i can't explain it to you. stay healthy brother.

 

[Jay_Druthers]

Originally Posted by LeoRexTyrannus
@Jay lumens do not fit plant growth they're used by the HID community because there has been extensive experiments to approximate how many lumens you need from what distance from how many watts.

Yeah I know about the calculations required to go from a spectral power density chart to radiant power and umol. But you have to use what the mfg gives for specs or use various test equipment like quantum meters to measure umol at surface. or do major integral calculations to go from lumens to radiant power. Problem is your at the mfg mercy for data.

I have built several arrays over the last couple of years and they work fine for small grows.


I was just posting about the latest revolution that will get efficiency up towards 80% vs the 40% we have now.

 

[LeoRexTyrannus]

Is that part of the spectrum where HPS excels and explains its advantages in yield or mightI still be in the same situation re weight, even with that combination?

An all Amber UFO would be ideal to supplement a CMH, but I do not see how this unit can hurt, and the reviews on the site line up with what some DIY builders have been saying here. If you have the cash go for it and report back with your results.

One word recommedation though, if you're doing a cabinet/tent, get a vertical hanging bulb and lose the reflector as you can make the walls reflective, then get yourself a hangable socket and for that and the UFO get some hanging yo yo's, they're fantastic.

 

[LeoRexTyrannus]

@Clone, sorry to hear that friend, well then I certainly do understand your position.

@Jay Oh ok, well those are just like the other spot lights, under powered for the price. What was the revolution? I missed it.

 

[Jay_Druthers]

@Clone, sorry to hear that friend, well then I certainly do understand your position.

@Jay Oh ok, well those are just like the other spot lights, under powered for the price. What was the revolution? I missed it.

quantum dot technology. those are the first on the market

they are equivalent to a 75 watt bulb but only 7.5 watts

 

[BlackMagic]

Hmmm, those 90w quad-band UFO's on ebay looks quite promising.
Anyone got one of those?

 

[VladTheInhaler]

In my email correspondence with a ufo seller I asked if I could choose spectrum of leds used in his ufo-knockoff. He said that it is possible as long as it doesn't affect the price of end product. I was thinking of getting them to make a tri-band system with red-blue-orange (or amber) in ratio 7:1:1
Do you guys have any suggestions?

 

[LeoRexTyrannus]

quantum dot technology. those are the first on the market

they are equivalent to a 75 watt bulb but only 7.5 watts

Oh those use quantum dots? I read about those a few months ago, well then I guess those are not anything like the other edison bulb style offerings, I stand completely corrected Jay, if those are actually using quantum dot technology in their manufacture then I would reconsider my stance on their price and say it's fair since this is cutting edge technology.

 

[LeoRexTyrannus]

In my email correspondence with a ufo seller I asked if I could choose spectrum of leds used in his ufo-knockoff. He said that it is possible as long as it doesn't affect the price of end product. I was thinking of getting them to make a tri-band system with red-blue-orange (or amber) in ratio 7:1:1
Do you guys have any suggestions?

Vlad that sounds fine from what I have seen, a lot of people use that exact ratio. I believe they use so many red diodes because of their lower emission efficiencies, Knna noted a few pages back there is a new 660 nm red diode coming out that would be even more efficient, and who knows what the ratio would be with those. Please wait for a second opinion as I am just a guy who is trying to study as much of this exciting field as possible, let the actual owners/builders give you their opinion before acting.