Leaves curling bad, NEED HELP

[cosmiccowboy]

Wow Tim?!? that was a rather pompous thing to say. How would one -not- take offence to a statement like that? ...... I'm not sure why you think everyone is so ignorant, but it may surprise you to know that there are a great number of people here who have been growing big happy healthy pot plants for years before you came along, many using Botanicare products. And guess what? they know what's in it! lol Btw, there's nothing wrong with LC's soil mix either, you should look into it, before you judge it. BC

microbeman is one angry,miserAble human being..

 

[Microbeman]

I projected no anger. I am just dubious of the bottled nutrients and their actual ingredients. That was my point. I have previously stated that I used such nutrients myself but when I learned not to, things improved but each to his own. If people wish to spend more money than necessary, go for it. BTW, I said nothing against any individual and again I get attacked. Do you work for Botanicare or some other bottled nute company? I also have never put down LC's mix so what is up with that?

 

[VerdantGreen]

tbh i have had a similar problem with ine of my plants in late flower and havent quite worked out what it is yet (doesnt look as severe as yours)
i think it is narrowed down to
low soil temperature (therefore less microbial action)
slightly high nute levels
low soil pH

i am leaning towards the first one - have your ambient temps dropped recently??

 

[Microbeman]

On the Botonicare website it seems to indicate that only the Organicare line is really organic. I could not find these. Perhaps I am clueless. I did read a couple of write-ups on specific products. The use of the phrase 100% soluble, seems to indicate not organic [in the growing sense of the word] but you never know with the tricky phraseology used in advertising.

 

[sednal]

All is good, and we are happy people and dont get offended too easily, especially on an internet forum. That being said we are semi new to the indoor scene and with organic growing and Botanicare products, but we did research everything before proceeding with it. Good news is the plants seems to be recovering. Temps are no higher than 77 F and go down to around 69 at when the lights are out. The are starting to show slight yellowing in the leaves so we think it may be time for a little dose of pro bloom with the next watering. They are in 4 gallon containers and we watered them each with one gallon of water slowly on saturday and they are still retaining plenty of moisture. We hear alot of people say they water every 3 days or every other day but i find it more like every 5 or so for me. Are we waiting to long? We thought they like to get their roots a little dry rather than keeping them wet all of the time.

 

[Chesticles]

Organicare is there OMRI product, Pure Blend Pro is not organic but based on the listed ingredients is all natural

"The trio of Pure Blend Pro nutrients is derived from fish meal, composted sea bird guano, sea kelp, spirulina, soybean protein extract, rock phosphate, potassium carbonate, magnesium carbonate, calcium carbonate, humic acid*, fulvic acid*, citric acid*, raw sugar cane*, Agrimineral 72 (silica clay extract)*, ami no acids*, B-complex vitamins*, and select botanical plant extracts*. (*Non plant food ingredients)"

I email them a while back about the organicness of PBP and this is what i got

"PureBlend Pro is not OMRI certified and therefore cannot be claimed as organic. It is organic based and provides both organic and inorganic benefits.
To the best of my knowledge, there are no man made or synthetic nutrients but there are mineral salts.

If you need anything else, please don’t hesitate to email or call.


Christina Pfaff
Customer Sales Representative"

as to organic nutes and solubility, Pura Vida by technaflora is a 100% soluble and readily available OMRI nute made from fermented plant material, i don't know if PBP goes through the same process but 100% soluble and 100% organic aren't mutually exclusive

 

[C21H30O2]

I think what microherbman is trying to get at is that if you understand what is actually going on in an organic soil you would know what a waste and rip off the majority of bottled nutes are. Doing a true organic grow is cheaper, easier, and the results will be better than one using anything man could concoct and place in a bottle. It simply takes a little more knowledge than simply measuring out a chemical and adding it to water. If a nutrient is 100% soluble it is in ionic form and not organic. It is bound to a chemical salt which allows direct absorption by the roots. good for forcing your plant to take up nutrients, bad for creating an ideal environment for the plant in which it can uptake nutes as it desires (needs to), resist disease, pathogenic mold, fungi, and pests like spider-mites. Organic additives are complex molecules which must be broken down by the microherd and made available for the plant. This is how it happens in nature, this is how the plant evolved to work -- via a complex series of biological/environmental interactions and the extremely simple paradigm of n, p, and k only sufficiently yet incompletely account for this.

 

[Chesticles]

yeah, i guess this is where the term "organic" and "OMRI" is key, are fermented plant extracts in soluble form no longer organic,i wouldn't use them anyways cuz i'm not sure how they'd effect the microherd at recommended dosages but i thought i'd provide some seemingly relevant info, personally i'm using mex bat guano, molasses, NH fish and seaweed, and fulvic acid w/ a soilless mix of 6 parts coco, 3 parts perlite, 2 parts wormcastings, w/ unknown parts biotone and diatomaceous earth(just eyed it out) and 1 1/4 tbs DLime / gallon
but my brother does use PBP and he seems to like it

 

[ganja din]

Wow Tim?!? that was a rather pompous thing to say. How would one -not- take offence to a statement like that? ...... I'm not sure why you think everyone is so ignorant, but it may surprise you to know that there are a great number of people here who have been growing big happy healthy pot plants for years before you came along, many using Botanicare products. And guess what? they know what's in it! lol Btw, there's nothing wrong with LC's soil mix either, you should look into it, before you judge it. BC

Well, I wouldn't take offense. People have way to thin skin and bruise-able egos. It's not about egos, I like being wrong, it gives me the chance to learn something and become correct.

To MY understanding, PBP had chemical nutrients included, that is why it's not OMRI. Do I have to send of some PBP to the lab to make you guys believe what you don't want to believe?

 

[Chesticles]

quick question if anyone has the answer
if nutes in ionic form are no longer organic regardless of their organic origin, and plants only take up nutes in ionic form, then are all our plants consuming inorganic substances but derived from organic substances

when does something organic like blood meal or guano become inorganic

 

[ganja din]

Yes. Those items become inorganic once they are microbiology processed, eg. "nutrient cycling".

Please see this pic I made for this thread:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=138700

 

[Chesticles]

thanks din, please send PBP to get tested, it'd be interesting to know what's really in there

 

[Microbeman]

Are you sure you would call them 'inorganic' so much as 'bioavailable' (no longer sequestered)? or have you discovered a standard definitive?

 

[ganja din]

Are you sure you would call them 'inorganic' so much as 'bioavailable' (no longer sequestered)? or have you discovered a standard definitive?

Great point! I consider them synonymous, with inorganic the most proper term. However, the use of 'inorganic' causes confusion when also taking about chemical salt ferts. In my understanding, inorganic is the definitive:


"Advisory - Nutrient Cycling and (EM) Effective-Microorganism Technology"
Author(s): Hadi Bux Leghari M.Sc. agri.(honors) Plant Pathology

http://www.pakissan.com/english/advisory/nutrient.cycling.shtml

1. Mineralization -
The largest source of nutrients in most soils is contained in organic compounds. Mineralization is the process by which organic nutrients are converted to inorganic forms, which plants can take up. For example, the nitrogen contained in protein is mineralized to ammonium. This process is microbially regulated (i.e. bacteria and fungi), and, therefore is affected by environmental factors such as temperature and moisture, which affect the activity and population of the microbes.

"The Microbial World - Microbes and the Cycles of Elements of Life"
Author(s): Kenneth Todar
University of Wisconsin-Madison Department of Bacteriology; © 2008

http://bioinfo.bact.wisc.edu/themicrobialworld/environmental.html

The Phosphorus cycle

The phosphorus cycle is comparatively simple. Inorganic phosphate exists in only one form. It is interconverted from an inorganic to an organic form and back again, and there is no gaseous intermediate.

Do you agree? Hummm.

 

[Microbeman]

If I were discussing the topic with some scientists/researchers I would use the term of concensus and likely it is appropriate to describe mineralized 'nutrients' as inorganic' but for discussion on a lay basis, as you noted it may promote confusion. I have not paid much attention (but shall do so) to the most commonly used expression in the papers. For discussion on this forum, I'm thankful if someone gets the microbial nutrient cycle at all and groks that we are not feeding plants and further understands the difference between mineralization and N fixing. [Really all I'm trying to do] Sorry if I'm being confusing. I just prefer to be as simple as possible without using terms like cakes and cookies.

 

[sednal]

Thanks for the information guys. This is my first organic grow, well i guess its inorganic now? Either way, i would love to have a completly organic grow and not have to feed them bottled neuts but all of that will come in time, as for now, im going to stick with the route i'v been traveling. Leaves are looking better and recovering more and more every time i check on um. Thanks so much for the help!

 

[Microbeman]

Thanks for the information guys. This is my first organic grow, well i guess its inorganic now? Either way, i would love to have a completly organic grow and not have to feed them bottled neuts but all of that will come in time, as for now, im going to stick with the route i'v been traveling. Leaves are looking better and recovering more and more every time i check on um. Thanks so much for the help!

Do what works with what you have.

 

[B.C.]

Food for thought...

Food for thought...

Well, I wouldn't take offense. People have way to thin skin and bruise-able egos. It's not about egos, I like being wrong, it gives me the chance to learn something and become correct.

To MY understanding, PBP had chemical nutrients included, that is why it's not OMRI. Do I have to send of some PBP to the lab to make you guys believe what you don't want to believe?

I'm not sure how this turned to an issue of thin skin and egos or even how organics work ( which I fully understood already without the lesson posted here. lol ). This thread wasn't asking if PBP was OMRI organic certified either! No, it was about helping him get his plants back on track the way he decided to grow them.

Jus because some one isn't growing the way you do doesn't make them wrong, nor does it give you the right to be rude to other members. That would be an ego problem, right? lol... ( a statement for all ) Take care... BC

 

[ganja din]

It turned into and issue about your ego when you choose to make it so, as you are RIGHT now!

And how often does a topic veer this way and that? Always, that's how often. I find it odd that you would complain about OT posts by making an EVEN greater OT post, haha, fuc*ing douche bag.

And the fact someone thinks they are growing organically but might be really using chemicals unaware is not worth pointing out? Are you nuts!?! I want people to help me and offer constructive criticism when they see something I misunderstand. If it helps me that's great, its OK to be wrong, what don't you understand about that?

I'm stoked I won't have to read your posts anymore...my dear ignore feature!

 

[B.C.]

Wow, childish names and everything!.... LOL! You do know that sorta thing is against the TOU here, right? Yep, it is... You have to act like a big boy when you post here. lol

Btw, I knew PBP wasn't fully organic, you jus assumed I didn't. It's been discussed to death here before you ever came along. So what if it's not fully organic, there's nothing in there that's going to hurt the grower, plants, or even the microherd ( for the most part ). It will grow very nice plants, the end results speaks for itself, but I don't spose you would know about that, huh? or maybe you can tell us yer hands on expeirence with it and why it shouldn't work for this guy. BC