Landraces . Will we ever smoke what we once had? If no is there a Way back?

[Gypsy Nirvana]

for thousands of years humans have travelled with plant genetic material (seeds, cuttings) all over the planet - and in most instances this has proved to be beneficial to the recipients - if this had not happened then many of the foods and plants they come from we take for granted would not have developed to being as beneficial to farmers as they are today.

I have travelled to some remote areas where farmers are producing cannabis that is not very potent - and when shown cannabis that is, they all seem to want to grow it because it will probably get a better price at market - you can't really stop farmers from growing different varieties that come from afar.

 

[romanoweed]

Sam Skunkman:
That 25 25 50 coupled with your regular observation of these offspring-behaviour showes that this is the overal Afghanistan Landrace.. A very balanced THC/CBD mix.
I thought it may have been possible to say something about Afghanistan Landraces Makingprocess if we could say something more about the SPECIALITY of the cbd in it. Given the Idea that CBD traits are rather Wildplant-expressions. Is this Nonselective but still manmade Process they aply significantly corresponding now with Afghanistn Landrace. Dont other Countries do they same? So this CBD-Trait in Manmade cultivar corresponds perfectly with the Nonselective Breedprocess? So Cbd-cultivars perhaps show up only in afghanistan, and show up only where people perform this kind of Breedingproces same time?
Is there a pattern to be seen? The Pattern of Drugcultivars containing good amounts of cbd only when Selected in this loose manner? Cause would we know (assumed) that say southindian people do the same breeding-process, but they end up with rather CBD-free cultivars, then we could say something about if wild plants are CBD-rich in general....

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Gypsy,
True but jet travel after 1960 is what changed the game, and I do understand the farmers desire to grow more potent weed, but if they are caretakers of their local landraces then if they do not preserve their local landraces they will all be gone and all that will be left is Multi-Poly-Hybrids and that would be a real shame for the future growers and breeders that may wish to use the 1000's of years old heritage that we found when we looked in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, remember a land race is not just the property of those growing it today they are mearly the present caretakers of that genetic heritage, and it will be lost if it is not preserved, simple as that.
Do we really want all Cannabis to be the same world wide, even if it can make a little more profit? I like the diversity that took thousands of years to create, and will be soon lost unless steps are taken to preserve the diversity, either that or it will all be OG Kush hybrids or what ever the latest popular Cannabis variety is.
-SamS

for thousands of years humans have travelled with plant genetic material (seeds, cuttings) all over the planet - and in most instances this has proved to be beneficial to the recipients - if this had not happened then many of the foods and plants they come from we take for granted would not have developed to being as beneficial to farmers as they are today.

I have travelled to some remote areas where farmers are producing cannabis that is not very potent - and when shown cannabis that is, they all seem to want to grow it because it will probably get a better price at market - you can't really stop farmers from growing different varieties that come from afar.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

CBD% in wild plants

CBD% in wild plants

X

Sam Skunkman:
That 25 25 50 coupled with your regular observation of these offspring-behaviour showes that this is the overal Afghanistan Landrace.. A very balanced THC/CBD mix.

YES MADE BY MAN, NOT BY NATURE, CBD MAY BE MORE COMMON IN WILD LANDRACES BUT EVEN THAT IS BECAUSE MAN HAS IN GENERAL SELECTED FOR THC, ONLY RECENTLY FOR CBD, THE CBD SELECTIONS IN AFGHANISTAN WAS BY SELECTING FOR HIGH RESIN CONTENT AND NOT SMOKING THE INDIVIDUAL PLANTS LIKE GANJA FARMERS ALWAYS DO. CBD IS NOT NATURALLY HIGH IN WILD PLANTS ANYMORE THAN WILD PLANTS ARE HIGH IN THC, IT IS MAN THAT HAS SELECTED FOR HIGH CANNABINOID LEVELS.
-SamS

I thought it may have been possible to say something about Afghanistan Landraces Makingprocess if we could say something more about the SPECIALITY of the cbd in it. Given the Idea that CBD traits are rather Wildplant-expressions. Is this Nonselective but still manmade Process they aply significantly corresponding now with Afghanistn Landrace. Dont other Countries do they same? So this CBD-Trait in Manmade cultivar corresponds perfectly with the Nonselective Breedprocess? So Cbd-cultivars perhaps show up only in afghanistan, and show up only where people perform this kind of Breedingproces same time?
Is there a pattern to be seen?

 

[romanoweed]

Wasnt it one of those great researchers, forgot the name wich had the idea of Wild plants having high CBD in general? And Equatorial Plants only beeing high thc cause they are more cultivatet by man ? Or is it one of this rather wanky associations regarding the old indica sativa discussions. Probably i remember this wrong.. I also found it rather hard to believe... That a Naturegiven CBD plant can be turned into a thc halucinogen.. And please reread the end of last post if you like i edited it, added something last 3 lines, probably you could help there

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Of course we do not want all cannabis to be the same worldwide - and I think this is unlikely with such preservationists we have amongst the ever growing cannabis growing community - such as yourself, and many others who take the seeds we find in remote locations, then breed/work with them to try and preserve or improve the line -


I was just in Kew Gardens looking at the roses - and there I saw varieties of roses that have been kept around for well over 100 years - and still they are growing - beautifully.


Makes me wonder if we will see the many varied types of cannabis we have today in 100 years time -

Gypsy,
True but jet travel after 1960 is what changed the game, and I do understand the farmers desire to grow more potent weed, but if they are caretakers of their local landraces then if they do not preserve their local landraces they will all be gone and all that will be left is Multi-Poly-Hybrids and that would be a real shame for the future growers and breeders that may wish to use the 1000's of years old heritage that we found when we looked in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, remember a land race is not just the property of those growing it today they are mearly the present caretakers of that genetic heritage, and it will be lost if it is not preserved, simple as that.
Do we really want all Cannabis to be the same world wide, even if it can make a little more profit? I like the diversity that took thousands of years to create, and will be soon lost unless steps are taken to preserve the diversity, either that or it will all be OG Kush hybrids or what ever the latest popular Cannabis variety is.
-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Landraces require 2000 plant open pollinated reproductions, 1,000 females and 1,000 males all from seeds. That is a minimum to preserve genes in a landrace.
No one in the West is doing this, lets be honest, at the best they are preserving a small slice of a single landrace pie. Better than nothing but not what is needed.
I predict that with in a few decades all landraces that are within an easy jet ride for tourists will be Multi-Polly-Hybrids like what has already happened in Morocco, Mexico, and Jamaica. The local landrace growers need to remember that they are just caretakers of their heritage landraces and if they drop the ball they will be replaced by Multi-Polly-Hybrids, this is going to happen....
-SamS

Of course we do not want all cannabis to be the same worldwide - and I think this is unlikely with such preservationists we have amongst the ever growing cannabis growing community - such as yourself, and many others who take the seeds we find in remote locations, then breed/work with them to try and preserve or improve the line -


I was just in Kew Gardens looking at the roses - and there I saw varieties of roses that have been kept around for well over 100 years - and still they are growing - beautifully.


Makes me wonder if we will see the many varied types of cannabis we have today in 100 years time -

 

[romanoweed]

Gypsy
When is a Landrace dead: where is the limit where a Landrace is no more good enough reproduced with enough Examples.. Eventul Anwser, never really, its no traight limit, its a degree of degradiation. Where is the Limit of outcrossing? There is no straight Limit, only a degree.. So we will wake up when its late i can imagine.. Acording to this theory Landrace have to stay in a constant Breeding Procedure.. Many Races may nomore to a diffrent degree cause probhition. They are getting lost ...
Then only Wild plants hold the Future for Perfect breeds, OR there is something possible like the Adam and Eva story. Probably we can take some of the most Inbreed, or Outcrossed Plant and doo the Adam and Eva Breeding programm wich is still under debate if thats possible (happend) for to Arche Noah. haha,

But is Human selection in its progression viable enough forever? Acording to breedingscience it may if it has the 2000 plants building the Landrace.. OR if it has Wildplant imput.
Therefore i think botanists have to find out how Wild Plants Breed themselve, they dont degenerate, no they stay viable atleast for very long tiiiime. Cause it might be very likely that we miss one Plant and have only 1999 plants left for Landrace, or having external genetical imput, to a higher degree.
Nature at its best doesent seem to have this two Problems. It doesent in or outbreed in bad way...
The preserving-way for 2000 Plants, or contant breeding-process of a Gemstone-Landrace i dont know if that really at its best can hold on forever. It may well be Wild imput that has to feed Humanwork and prevents mistakes..
Or not, but this is unshure. Eitherway we should find out Techniques how this Gemstones apeared, or techniques how Nature works... Depending if there needs to be constant imput for Landrace. But we need to know the techniue ..
If we know natures technique, than i just assume we have saved it forever .. Cause it might be just the higher kind of Breeding that NAture does, trough wich Landracecreation could easily be done. I can imagine all that tribes do is same like what nature does, not different.. Just to a different extent or so..in a certain Stile of Nature. Thats just a thought

 

[Sunshineinabag]

So let me run a hypothetical question by you guys........Viet,Thai, Chinese area cultivars are more than likely the older varietals compared to others.......would these be more ideal to work with considering the extra time they have had to develop over longer times?

 

[Sunshineinabag]

I'd have my hands full

I'd have my hands full

Landraces require 2000 plant open pollinated reproductions, 1,000 females and 1,000 males all from seeds. That is a minimum to preserve genes in a landrace.
No one is doing this, lets be honest, at the best they are preserving a small slice of a single landrace pie. Better than nothing but not what is needed.
I predict that with in a few decades all landraces that are within an easy jet ride for tourists will be Multi-Polly-Hybrids like what has already happened in Morocco, Mexico, and Jamaica. The local landrace growers need to remember that they are just caretakers of their heritage landraces and if they drop the ball they will be replaced by Multi-Polly-Hybrids, is is going to happen....
-SamS

Can someone explain to me how 2000 cultivars are fed and maintained? I'm actually intrigued

 

[romanoweed]

I mean African Landrace is that a work or Man? You can debate that the brought seeds of Man was selected for africa, they choose them.. So only these chosen from Man seeds survived africa.
But i doubt.. I rather believe Nature choose probably the seeds, right. Nature therefore created African Weed. The human Selection might be a comparably easy task, if you follow this theory.
Humans might do something similar when Creating Landraces, and are good Source for informaion..
But i dont think Man created African Weed. Indices might be that there are wild Plants in africa wich look and smoke like African. Nature does something acording to this idea. Nature does more in therms of creating the Gems, if you call african weeds Gems, but himalaian where weed possibly came from you call not so Gemstone(acording you own taste) It might be quiet substencial to find out

 

[OldCoolSativa]

Can someone explain to me how 2000 cultivars are fed and maintained? I'm actually intrigued

Sun, soil, and rain.

 

[Sunshineinabag]

Sun, soil, and rain.

And a sore back!

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Yes Sam - I am aware of what it takes to properly preserve a landrace from extinction - the problem is that the majority of farmers that grow cannabis do so for the money - and what variety sells for the most they will want to grow -


Very few people can see the value in preserving old local varieties/land races, when there are so many new hybrids on the market that can out-do the local weed in potency and flowering times plus other traits that might be desirable for a farmer - its sad to see, but what will be will be. (Que Sera Sera)


Maybe the only saving grace for the old land races are people such as our selves who can gather and save the seeds until one day we are in the position to be able to grow out thousands of them for open pollination reproductions -

Landraces require 2000 plant open pollinated reproductions, 1,000 females and 1,000 males all from seeds. That is a minimum to preserve genes in a landrace.
No one is doing this, lets be honest, at the best they are preserving a small slice of a single landrace pie. Better than nothing but not what is needed.
I predict that with in a few decades all landraces that are within an easy jet ride for tourists will be Multi-Polly-Hybrids like what has already happened in Morocco, Mexico, and Jamaica. The local landrace growers need to remember that they are just caretakers of their heritage landraces and if they drop the ball they will be replaced by Multi-Polly-Hybrids, is is going to happen....
-SamS

 

[Drewsif]

"hey guys, we got this new weed called indica. Getting high is so 70s, let's all get faded instead. Oh and seeds cost 10 bucks a pop" - every grower on earth who did it for MONEY.

So thankful the internet didn't exist when i was contemplating tossing seed stock. Yeah, you Cali boys almost got us down to your level of blandness..

 

[kookied]

Yes, we are,have losing them. Though I prefer to call them heritage strains, while landrace is the wild strains they came from.
Regardless, This Video shows and explains what has happened to
heritage strains.

Swaziland

 

[numberguy]

Nothing is being lost except culture and cultural ways of growing. There is likely only one original landrace that all the others arose from by spreading with man. No western hemisphere varieties can be considered landrace a few hundred years of growing in an area is nothing more than adaption to climate and culture. There are sweet spots in the world where feral populations naturally develop higher thc, and the names of those places have been preserved, what has'nt allways been preserved are the cultural practices of the people from those areas.

 

[Im'One]

landraces?

landraces?

Thanx sam

I Also saw in the Strainhunters series that there were some Farmers in Africa wich actually said they do Selection.. They didnt say how, or it was the wise mans wich did it , not the young ones wich told about it. But they said they do something and its not just open pollination atleast there. What Episode was it Strainhuntes in malawi if remember right.
I Heard to, that the Gems wich are strong are made by man. I dont doubt nor do i just belive, atleast as there are not so many people telling the same or that there is a certain indice for that.
Did you actually assume that the Cbd content in Afghani cannabis, wich you said comes trough Selection of rather fields than individual plants is the Sign for a certain Wild Trait left over? Its the common view wild plants containing mostly cbd.
But in the end i want a report of your Ideas, wich surely seems hard to get. The only ones wich could provide that indice are the wise man in local Villages telling and giving Indices, like per example they grow remotely and there was no interferance with wild Pollen. Or modern tecnique like Genetic analysis coupled with mapping of old material could provide Indices, or is that possible with dead material..?

I want Indices. So long i keep phylosophing.
Is still a bit funny to think its only man (not launghable but strange to turn out to be man). Atleast the Gems seem to accure only local, not on a global trade by Hybisizing (in my view, i like tripweed). It may be the last solution to outcross, yes, but not the perfect.. Also i have strong indices that the Tripweed sample i smoked was a vietnamese Hemp plant , or a wild one. One or the other, it was just labeled Hemp from the collector and not found in human Garden , more by walking by. Could be a Escapist still, could also be wild natures work science in vietnam there is many wild cannabis. Also the halfway vietnamese Strain Black Forest from Kindong organic is said to be wild plant found in Jungle. Bouth have goooood strong reports.
That makes me still wonder if Nature can do the same.
It would actually be a easier task. But is it mans work, then we would need to do 2 things, not one: first let Nature perform a Renaturalisation to purify Plants again, and secound we need to select them like they once did to get the Gems.
Otherwise we only would need the Denatuarlisation. Sience my own Experience pointed thowards some wild breeds, i still tend to this theory. But probably these wild samples are rather the closesst Representatives of the old Manselections, cause they may be escapists, open pollinating..

I want more indices, evenn just pics wich show plants in a scenerie. Could help to determine what caused it (The Scenerie would do that helping). Coupled with short Smokedescriprtion would help

I am just wondering how anyone knows what the africans or other indigenous peoples aee doing oe are capable of. We see this all the time qith so called experts who doubt the abilities of the people who are different from us. In my background i have seen numerous instances where white colonists doubted the technology and intelligence of the native americans only to find years later the so called experts were wrong.

 

[right]

What is the definition of land race ,what makes a marijauana plant a land race? I have a really good idea ,but I've read so much on hear that's contradictory.
I'd also like to ask what nld , wld means.these are new terms to me.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

WLD Wide Leaf Drug Variety
NLD Narrow Leaf Drug Variety

or
WLH Wide Leaf Hemp Variety
NLH Narrow Leaf Hemp Variety

It is an improvement over Indica and Sativa as that does not really say if they are Drug or Hemp varieties.

Add the Chemotype info of the Cannabinoids and Terpenes to WLD, NLD, WLH, NLH, and you get a much better description, the main info still lacking is Photoperiod info like if an Auto or early maturing like northern varieties or late maturing like Tropical Equatorial varieties. Step by step we learn and change.

-SamS

What is the definition of land race ,what makes a marijauana plant a land race? I have a really good idea ,but I've read so much on hear that's contradictory.
I'd also like to ask what nld , wld means.these are new terms to me.