KRUSTY, AGAIN

[DIAMOND MOFO]

This thread is a request for information to Krusty or his disciples. I know SYK's threads are very informative and if you are around I would greatly appreciate your assistance.

I've been studying the ways of Krusty. I've read countless posts on his method. I am convinced. It is important to me that I adhere to his rules nearly perfectly. The only exception I can think of is perhaps buliding a larger bottom bucket and getting a sweetwater air pump instead of a thomas.

I still have a lot to learn. For example, I have not even attempted to build a bucket yet. So it's all theoretical. But the guideline that I am building must be perfect before I drop the ten thousand or so dollas on a system.

The System I am Planning
I am planning a classic KBS, but a small one. This means the following: four bucket system; air conditioning; 24/7 feeding; big wattage lighting; high humidity; CO2 from the can, etc. I have not bulit the room yet so that is my first question.

Questions:

1. what size room is ideal for a four KBS system?

2. what lights would Krusty recommend for a four plant systems?


3. I've read that sweetwater regenerative blowers are the best. Which one would be ideal for a 4 bucket system (noise and heat considerations included)?

Check this site for a performace chart the various types of blowers:
http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/1027/Regenerative-Blowers-by-Sweetwater


4. Nutrients feeding. Does anyone have a detailed schedule of the nutrients and water feeding that should take place in a KBS system. I am looking for the exact system that Krusty used or uses. This schedule would include how much, how often, what brands, et cetera. Also include a cleansing ever so often?

5. I've read that ductless split air conditioners are best for KBS. What size and what brand do I need for the given size room and given the other elements of this system?

6. What would Krusty recommend as the best humidifier and humidity control combo for this system?

7. CO2, I am thinking of getting a dual 20lbs tank with a CAP monitor. Is this idea for this system?

8. I plan to build my own carbon filters and attach them to blowers. Where in the room do i put them, hang them or whatnot? And where can I find instructions on how to build them?

9. What size reservoirs should I get?

10. What size chiller should I get?

11. Do i need to buy an RO system or can I just buy gallons of water from a local water supplier? This place sells water at 25 cents per gallon.

12. How much water can I expect roughly to use per month, for everything in my system including fogger?

13. Do i need a water storage tank?

14. Do I need a second water storage tank for my fogger?

15. If I need an RO system, what is the best RO for me?

16. How much can I expect to spend on nutrients?

17. Can the heat emitting part of the air conditioner be left indoors so long as it is not in the grow room?

18. CLones! What is the ratio for the mixture of vermiculite to perilite that clones should be grown in?

19. what kind of containers should clones be grown in?

20. what kind of clone dome should clones be grown in?

21. what type of florescent lights are clones grown under?

22. FANS, what type of fans and how many should I get?

23. what type of inline fan should i get for my carbon filters?

24. how many and what size carbon filters do i need?

25. what do i feed the clones and what is the feeding schedule?

26. best air temp monitoring device?

27. i understand that res should be kept outside of grow room. but if i can't dig a hole into concrete to bury the res, can i build a brick structure around it, or somehting else to insulte it from the heat?

~

That's about all the questions I can think of for now. I will have more soon! I humbly request the secrets of the Klown.

 

[DHF]

I ran the smallest 4 plant krusty bucket setup in 10 x 10 rooms for 8 yrs with dialed results Diamond , and I gotta say that after gettin away from the high maintenance expensive ass whore system with all the bells and whistles it took to run said flawed system , I don`t miss it.....

Brief synopsis of equipment for a 4 plant setup is 5 bare bulbs hanging vertically in an X pattern with the plants in a "diamond" pattern so each plant receives lumens from 3 bulbs at all times during lights on......

SYK`s around at Farmer these days in a limited post capacity growin in perlite , and Jalisco Kid`s around from time to time at several sites pushin his custom bottom containers for kinda sorta the same system with feed options from aero to DWC , but in all honesty with yrs of experience , this setup is dated and flawed but there have been upgrades and innovations as far as increasing the flow through circulation using bigger bottom containers such as Under Current and Doubled`s "mpb" setups based on Heath Robinson`s "high flow" Aqua/waterfarm DIY improvements several yrs back.......

I will say that you`d make the Klown proud by numberin your questions though......shows you did do some research......LOL.....

So......in all seriousness and the will to help in any capacity , if you still want to travel down this path ,I`d be more than willing to guide yas toward the upgrades rather than dooming yas to a cash cow , high maintenance whore system since you already know of the expenditures of dialing a perfect environment sealed room system.......

I ran 2 rooms side by side for 8 yrs or so till Heathie talked me into maintenance free ebb and flow buckets that practically ran themselves with no chance of rootzone failure or the need for rez /inline chillers , but that`s another setup so I digress.....

To close I`d say don`t concentrate so much on the past hype of the Klown`s crazy "Freedom Bucket" following , but rather on the innovations that`ve come forward with upgrades to big plant growing setups since and combine all into the best of the best IMO.......

Many big plant threads at the farmer from undercurrent setups and mpb`s , so go do some more research and glean knowledge from all and then decide what yas wanna do before blowin buncha cash on equipment......

Many ways ta skin a cat......Followin the Klown`s a flawed equation at best IME , but I did it for yrs so can`t say a word....

Holler if I can help...DHF.............

 

[iSMOKE.KUSH]

dhf nailed it. i've seen multi pound beasts in the ebb and gro buckets. those things rock. i grow soiless though..

 

[DHF]

Although you may have seen some big plants grown in ebb and grow/multiflow type setups ISK , it was never my intention to include a bulletproof system for smaller , increased plant numbers setups such as a dialed DIY ebb and flow 5 gal bucket system compared to krusty buckets......2 different animals......Sorry you misunderstood......

Big plants take increased veg times with larger bottom containers for rootmass and major upper support for limbs/branches that outgrow their capacity to support the weight of budgrowth swellage using fast hydro systems.......

Old Klown tip for big plants.......Hang chicken wire on the ceilings for the ability to tie up limbs/branches from directly above and or from any angle that helps lumen absorption /light penetration into the sideway`s canopy using bare vertical bulbs.....fuck a buncha plant yo-yo`s......but......that`s my opinion/experience........YMMV..........

If I was gonna design a 4 plant grow in a 10 x 10 room based on what I`ve witnessed first hand , I`d haveta go with Lazyman`s and Sunnydog`s "Tropf Blumat`s" on a DTW "as needed" feed schedule based on the drying out/evaporation/ suction and drip-feeding process for total plant needs control once dialed for peanuts on the dollar investment using a coco/sunshine#4 mix with perlite......the new "maxi-outdoor" sensors look to be tailor made for larger plants.........Only time will tell........KISS rules for this old fart after all these yrs.......

5-1000 watters hangin vertically in an X pattern with muffin fans beneath each bulb pushin heat and stank up into the area the exhaust/scrubber combo`s can suck it out even though that`s not a sealed room with CO2 , but rather a twice per minute air exchange/extraction using inherent CO2 in the air we breathe......

Easy got ta count fer sumthin in this `ol world Diamond......Not tryin ta harsh yer mellow , but hey........there`s throwin cash away , and then there`s investing wisely......All comes with age and experience.......

I was younger and dumber when I ran Krusty buckets........I`m older and way cheaper/tight ass these days ,but it doesn`t haveta affect yields once dialage occurs.......

Peace.....DHF.......

 

[DIAMOND MOFO]

I ran the smallest 4 plant krusty bucket setup in 10 x 10 rooms for 8 yrs with dialed results Diamond , and I gotta say that after gettin away from the high maintenance expensive ass whore system with all the bells and whistles it took to run said flawed system , I don`t miss it.....

Brief synopsis of equipment for a 4 plant setup is 5 bare bulbs hanging vertically in an X pattern with the plants in a "diamond" pattern so each plant receives lumens from 3 bulbs at all times during lights on......

SYK`s around at Farmer these days in a limited post capacity growin in perlite , and Jalisco Kid`s around from time to time at several sites pushin his custom bottom containers for kinda sorta the same system with feed options from aero to DWC , but in all honesty with yrs of experience , this setup is dated and flawed but there have been upgrades and innovations as far as increasing the flow through circulation using bigger bottom containers such as Under Current and Doubled`s "mpb" setups based on Heath Robinson`s "high flow" Aqua/waterfarm DIY improvements several yrs back.......

I will say that you`d make the Klown proud by numberin your questions though......shows you did do some research......LOL.....

So......in all seriousness and the will to help in any capacity , if you still want to travel down this path ,I`d be more than willing to guide yas toward the upgrades rather than dooming yas to a cash cow , high maintenance whore system since you already know of the expenditures of dialing a perfect environment sealed room system.......

I ran 2 rooms side by side for 8 yrs or so till Heathie talked me into maintenance free ebb and flow buckets that practically ran themselves with no chance of rootzone failure or the need for rez /inline chillers , but that`s another setup so I digress.....

To close I`d say don`t concentrate so much on the past hype of the Klown`s crazy "Freedom Bucket" following , but rather on the innovations that`ve come forward with upgrades to big plant growing setups since and combine all into the best of the best IMO.......

Many big plant threads at the farmer from undercurrent setups and mpb`s , so go do some more research and glean knowledge from all and then decide what yas wanna do before blowin buncha cash on equipment......

Many ways ta skin a cat......Followin the Klown`s a flawed equation at best IME , but I did it for yrs so can`t say a word....

Holler if I can help...DHF.............

Thanks ded. I really appreciate it man. I have been reading your posts too. You are one of the voices i have come to trust. I don't know how, but I can differentiate the ones who know from the ones who don't really know.

I read elsewhere, as well as in this thread, that you followed this method, KBS. I think I remember you saying you are practicing the E+B method now or you are going to build the plants up on the sides of the walls?

I would be happy to go with the upgraded KBS version. I just need advice and evidence that it works, please. Please let me know where i should look exactly for a completely written out and proven method for a big plant grow. Thank you very much.

 

[DIAMOND MOFO]

Although you may have seen some big plants grown in ebb and grow/multiflow type setups ISK , it was never my intention to include a bulletproof system for smaller , increased plant numbers setups such as a dialed DIY ebb and flow 5 gal bucket system compared to krusty buckets......2 different animals......Sorry you misunderstood......

Big plants take increased veg times with larger bottom containers for rootmass and major upper support for limbs/branches that outgrow their capacity to support the weight of budgrowth swellage using fast hydro systems.......

Old Klown tip for big plants.......Hang chicken wire on the ceilings for the ability to tie up limbs/branches from directly above and or from any angle that helps lumen absorption /light penetration into the sideway`s canopy using bare vertical bulbs.....fuck a buncha plant yo-yo`s......but......that`s my opinion/experience........YMMV..........

If I was gonna design a 4 plant grow in a 10 x 10 room based on what I`ve witnessed first hand , I`d haveta go with Lazyman`s and Sunnydog`s "Tropf Blumat`s" on a DTW "as needed" feed schedule based on the drying out/evaporation/ suction and drip-feeding process for total plant needs control once dialed for peanuts on the dollar investment using a coco/sunshine#4 mix with perlite......the new "maxi-outdoor" sensors look to be tailor made for larger plants.........Only time will tell........KISS rules for this old fart after all these yrs.......

5-1000 watters hangin vertically in an X pattern with muffin fans beneath each bulb pushin heat and stank up into the area the exhaust/scrubber combo`s can suck it out even though that`s not a sealed room with CO2 , but rather a twice per minute air exchange/extraction using inherent CO2 in the air we breathe......

Easy got ta count fer sumthin in this `ol world Diamond......Not tryin ta harsh yer mellow , but hey........there`s throwin cash away , and then there`s investing wisely......All comes with age and experience.......

I was younger and dumber when I ran Krusty buckets........I`m older and way cheaper/tight ass these days ,but it doesn`t haveta affect yields once dialage occurs.......

Peace.....DHF.......

I'm down. Would you please be so kind as to give me a detailed summary of this 4 plants system you you speak of? I would love to hear your ideas in complete detail.
maybe i would be better off at 6 plants as that is the med limit where i live. thanks
So you are saying forget the CO2, get some inline fans?
Are you including A/C?
You are changing the buckets how exactly; bigger bottoms?
What size air pump are you using for the bubbles?
24/7 watering still I assume?
what size pump?
and what about humidity?
what about water supply, should I get an RO or just buy water from a water dealer?
thanks DHF.

 

[DIAMOND MOFO]

Lazyman`s and Sunnydog`s "Tropf Blumat`s" on a DTW "as needed" feed schedule based on the drying out/evaporation/ suction and drip-feeding process for total plant needs control once dialed for peanuts on the dollar investment using a coco/sunshine#4 mix with perlite......the new "maxi-outdoor" sensors look to be tailor made for larger plants.........Only time will tell........KISS rules for this old fart after all these yrs......."-DHF

please also explain this to me. I dont understand. thanks

 

[DHF]

Ok Bro.......First off.......The DTW with Lazyman and Sunnydog`s setup`s is just a simple "Drain to Waste" system that feeds the plants what they need as they need it.......Babyshit........

Second .......The only setup I`d use in a 10 x 10 room is what I specified as optimum conditions for a big plant grow where each plant gets massive sideways light from 3 sides so 6 plant`s wouldn`t work with this particular light setup IME......

Now let me say this about the improvements that`ve been made on recirculating DWC setups like the undercurrent and Doubled`s "mpb" buckets.....

You can use these systems and grow big plants , but there`s a definite learning curve just like krusty buckets , so crop failure can happen in a matter of 24-48 hrs if not caught in time........

Fast setups can grow em big , but it can kill em fast........I`ve seen more crop failure from DWC setups than any other grow system out there in 15 yrs online so everyone take heed.........

Doubleds and the Undercurrent folks have sold a bill of goods saying their setups are bulletproof , but I`ve already seen crop failures from Doubled`s mpb setups .......I`ve not heard of such from the undercurrent setups , but I`m sure there`ve been some just from the sheer knowledge that if rootzone temps fluctuate and rise above 70 degrees with any type regularity , pythium/root rot will ensue.....guaranteed.......

Large recirculating DWC setups with mega wattage blastin the plants asses warm the rooms up along with the bottom containers and un-tended will cause crop failure..............

Lot ta be said bout krusty`s famous old saying concerning a perfect environment with whatever means necessary.......Ambient air temps have direct bearing on water temps in the bottom buckets.......Ain`t rocket science but rather attention to detail........Sunken rez`s are a thing of the past BTW bro........

Go over to TEEHHHCCCFarmerdotcom and look at all the big plant threads........It`ll give yas an idea how far you wanna go down the rabbit hole with Alice ok ?........Doubled`s has his own sub category on his "mpb" setup and hydro section has several undercurrent setups that might suit you better if yas want more than 4 big plants........

My advice of what I would do , is not necessarily what`s right for you , but I`m here ta help with whatever you decide on my buddy........I`ve helped many folks achieve dialage , but everyone`s perception of that event is different......

Peace....DHF..........

 

[DIAMOND MOFO]

Thanks DHF. I'm going to start reading all the ********* big plant threads. Thanks for the guidance. I'm sure I will have questions later.

BTW, I'm ready to grow right. I am ready to throw down serious money on all the right gear. As you said, I just need to figure out what the right system is for me and for what I want to accomplish and the I have to dial it in.

 

[DHF]

This website has a filter that delete`s other competing weedsites , so that`s why I typed the addy as such so you`d have a clue as ta where to go for further research........

Just remember.......Less is more and return on investment is relative......The newer mini split a/c`s are awesome for inside setups........

Santa Fe dehueys are the ultimate if you can put em in the budget...... Big plants as a rule create their own humidity , so let`s not worry bout a fogger till we`re seeing reduced transpiration when it`s needed............

70 % RH is optimum through the end of stretch , and then as low as you can keep it with big plants dialed while suckin nutes and sweatin it out for a dialed system swellin the colas up accordingly through end of flower...............

Take care and good luck .....DHF..........

 

[DIAMOND MOFO]

yeah, i'm studying the udercurrent system. it looks like the krusty system but perfected by companies. i think i may have to go this route. but $1,500 for a bunch of plastic boxes and tubes is crazy! im going DIY if i do this. it looks pretty easy to build. someone must have a good diy thread on it.

but i need this setup in a better arrangement so that i can lights plants between plants. that is very important. if i cant hang likes between then i will have to hang them around the plants and that will require more lights than i want to start off using.

it looks super duper though.

 

[DIAMOND MOFO]

can you recommend on a mini split? I am currently studying the 8 plant undercurrent system. i think that is a good size for me. and it works well in diamond formation if i can get an undercurrent system that spaced apart in the middle.

 

[HUGE]

Lazyman`s and Sunnydog`s "Tropf Blumat`s" on a DTW "as needed" feed schedule based on the drying out/evaporation/ suction and drip-feeding process for total plant needs control once dialed for peanuts on the dollar investment using a coco/sunshine#4 mix with perlite......the new "maxi-outdoor" sensors look to be tailor made for larger plants.........Only time will tell........KISS rules for this old fart after all these yrs......."-DHF

please also explain this to me. I dont understand. thanks

Save your life and follow these instructions. I have been through dwc, and currently on ebb & flo. After lots of mone and lots of trial and error I wish I would have done drip coco from the start. It's the simplicity of soil with the speed & power of hydro. Best of both worlds from what I've seen. It's what the experts use.

 

[Jalisco Kid]

The biggest tree I have seen was in a simple drain to waste in a chow mix. Buying tanks just makes it easier if you get the right ones. Look for Theresa's grows, she puts out the best even grows. you would get what you see. JK

 

[DIAMOND MOFO]

Save your life and follow these instructions. I have been through dwc, and currently on ebb & flo. After lots of mone and lots of trial and error I wish I would have done drip coco from the start. It's the simplicity of soil with the speed & power of hydro. Best of both worlds from what I've seen. It's what the experts use.

Will you please post a thread from any website that i can go to and read. I have studied Lazyman's threads. I have to keep my plant count down for multiple reasons, one being legal. I am open to all methods. I just need proof that the method is sound, as far as yield. thank you.

 

[DIAMOND MOFO]

The biggest tree I have seen was in a simple drain to waste in a chow mix. Buying tanks just makes it easier if you get the right ones. Look for Theresa's grows, she puts out the best even grows. you would get what you see. JK

i have read one of her grows. it was simple and perfect. but, and correct me if i am wrong, she didn't use CO2 nor a chiller nor AC, as far as I can remember. But that is fine if it makes sense as far as yield goes.

can you recommend a thread for me to read?


i have to reach the 1gpw in order for an operation to make sense. i have also read your posts and have learned from you. thank you.

 

[DHF]

Diamond.....For you ta pull 5000 grams per 5KW`s just by attempting to use a system setup that`s done it before is beyond ludicrous to expect it........

I`m here to help , but it dont drop off a tree in yer lap..... the proper 50/50 Sat/Ind did it for me but I was lucky......Many plants bush out sideways with vertical bare bulbs......Mine just happened ta grow up AND out for the bottom line........

Try the DIY undercurrent with an oversized chiller for safety.........Gives yas more plants ta get closer to your requirements..........

Good luck Bro .......DHF.......

 

[DIAMOND MOFO]

thanks dhf. i have read through half a dozen or so uc logs written by the following growers: Sky High, Texas Kid, JackMayOffer. Judging by their logs I would say that it is inconclusive to me at least, that the UC system is an upgrade over a DWS.

Jack seems to be hitting 1lb plants all day long in his UC system.

Do you disagree?

I am fluctuating between the two systems.

DWR advantages: easier to control ph. fill a tub and it delivers the same stuff through the entire cycle. Diamond pattern is a more ideal pattern for lighting four plants. Five lamps needed for four plants in DWR system--Seven lamps needed for four plant UC system. You can move the plant stations closer and further from the lights as needed.

UC system advantages: seemingy simpler design? lots of easy to understand documentation on how to operate the system. much proof that 1/2lb to 1.5lb per plant is very possible.
~
So I can't decide which one to do. I am yet to see photos of trees in UD systems that are comparable to the trees seen in the old KBS photos. But this difference probably has much to do strains as well as system differences.

The answer will come to me. I might build my own UC system but in a diamond shape instead of rectangular pattern.

I am going to go back now and spend more time studying doubled's med buckets.

Lately I have been thinking about building 20 gallon DWR stations. And using a $500 air pump by sweetwater, as well as many other things to complete the system.

 

[HUGE]

Will you please post a thread from any website that i can go to and read. I have studied Lazyman's threads. I have to keep my plant count down for multiple reasons, one being legal. I am open to all methods. I just need proof that the method is sound, as far as yield. thank you.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=81674

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=111046
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=126619

 

[ZENARCADE]

Hey DHF, you tell it like it is bro! I've found much good advice in your posts over the years!
Do you have a link to any forums for Heaths waterfarm mods? Is it just recirc top feed hydroton where the roots eventually grow into aerated water?
I've grown in many styles over the past few years but never big trees in vert light. I like the low plant numbers! I'll be switching my room over to the X light/ diamond plant pattern very soon!