kingbrite led's -

[zachrockbadenof]

finally i am going led after a couple of years with 315's and previous to that mh/hps - my tent is small 4x3.5ft , and i'm looking at
LM301H 480wLM301B 480WEmitting Color:3500K+ Cree XP-E2 660nm 730nm LG UV
$382.85
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3000K+ Cree XP-E2 660nm 730nm LG UV
$382.85

i think i'll prob get the 3500 color, but wondering about the cree's - should i opt for the osram instead?? it seems lots of people go in this direction - i'm not sure if they are more $$ then the cree's or perform better - any help is appr...

 

[GoatCheese]

Can’t advice you about Cree vs Osram but go for the 3500K. It’s better color for both veg and bloom stages and looks more natural spectrum than the 3000K Samsung chips. I have both colors on my diy strip lights

 

[f-e]

You should look at the cree and osram side by side. Either manufacturers data or graphs of the completed light units.
I have the 660s in mine, but just shop brand, whatever they were using. Adding the Cree increased the price much more than it increased the light output. The 660s are only a small proportion of the LEDs present so a 10% difference in them, wasn't worth the 50% price increase on the entire light.

Careful with UV as we want UVB but are sold UVA under the UV heading.

I keep looking at some 4000K boards to replace mine. On the 4000K you get a similar height blue and red peak on the graph, while green levels are quite high to. It's the smoothest curve. More like daylight than other temperatures. This means, as you max out the red illumination, making further illumination a problem, you also max out the blue and give a fair bit of green. If you used 3000K you would hit the illumination limit of the red, while blue wasn't yet saturated, and green was lower to. Osram are fluecence? and do field trials. I'm siting their data. Which leads them to mix warmer and cooler whites, to get an even smoother graph. Filling in where they can, with specific colours. So far the quantum board suppliers are not mixing up the whites, or doing much with 4000K, and are instead giving us what the market (our forums) are asking for. I suspect that Samsung will soon offer the board people advice on mixing LED's or even offer a new LED blended for a smoother output.

Red is the most efficient colour for us to produce for the plants. If spreading the least power over the greatest area interests you, go 3000K. The extended red peak will limit the max ppfd your plants can take, but they will do better with 500ppfd of 3000K than 500ppfd of a cooler colour. Plants use red better.

That's the balancing act we must all do. Lighting that can reach the highest ppfd, or lighting that can spread the furthest.

Personally I feel the 3000K with Cree and 730 is far too red. The processes at that end of the spectrum will be maxed out, while the blue led processes could still be improved upon. It's a personal opinion though. Led by my desire to max out every process I can.

 

[GoatCheese]

Come to think of it, 480 watts from the wall is quite powerful light fixture for your tent, so make sure the light you're gonna buy has a dimmer on it. 480 watts of modern white leds is much more powerful than a 600 watt hps.

..to give you some idea what modern leds can do
I have three 75w (225 watts) Cree cobs in my 90x50x160cm tent and i can only use 90-100 watts combined max. or the plants start to suffer from LED radiation stress/damage. That’s with about 75cm distance to canopy. Modern leds are very, very powerful, very different compared to the old purple led lights that you could keep very close to the plants..

With 90 watts out of my three Cree cobs i get similar results (bud size) as with a 250w hps but with a better light coverage, so i get larger yields. Easily over 2 grams/watt in soil with a good yielding plant.

If you’d crank that 480 watt light fully in your tent, i’d say you could need 100cm or more distance to canopy.

I’ve used my smaller Samsung LM301H strip light to flower males in a small cab and with under 20watts off the wall i need to have over 40cm clearance between the leds and the top of the plant or i’ll start seeing led radiation stress signs.

 

[Slim Pickens]

I went with the 3500: https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...54fe22f99uzn4F Those panels are shipped separated. I then mounted them on 3/4 aluminum angle with 6" spacing. I saw someone doing that for better coverage and it made sense to me. I could only afford 1 Led at the time,so that was a remedy. I have since added another. That should handle it.

 

[Subu]

Come to think of it, 480 watts from the wall is quite powerful light fixture for your tent, so make sure the light you're gonna buy has a dimmer on it. 480 watts of modern white leds is much more powerful than a 600 watt hps.

..to give you some idea what modern leds can do
I have three 75w (225 watts) Cree cobs in my 90x50x160cm tent and i can only use 90-100 watts combined max. or the plants start to suffer from LED radiation stress/damage. That’s with about 75cm distance to canopy. Modern leds are very, very powerful, very different compared to the old purple led lights that you could keep very close to the plants..

With 90 watts out of my three Cree cobs i get similar results (bud size) as with a 250w hps but with a better light coverage, so i get larger yields. Easily over 2 grams/watt in soil with a good yielding plant.

If you’d crank that 480 watt light fully in your tent, i’d say you could need 100cm or more distance to canopy.

I’ve used my smaller Samsung LM301H strip light to flower males in a small cab and with under 20watts off the wall i need to have over 40cm clearance between the leds and the top of the plant or i’ll start seeing led radiation stress signs.

I am running 2.7umol 450w LEDs in 4x4s. I think OP will be fine running the 480w on 100% at 60-70cm once he hits week 3 or 4 of flowering but would need to taper up. 480w would be insane in a 4x3.5, if it were me I'd try filling the tent nicely and cranking the full 480 xD

 

[f-e]

I am running 2.7umol 450w LEDs in 4x4s. I think OP will be fine running the 480w on 100% at 60-70cm once he hits week 3 or 4 of flowering but would need to taper up. 480w would be insane in a 4x3.5, if it were me I'd try filling the tent nicely and cranking the full 480 xD

Yeah, 30-35w a foot is a typical goal. I would stick a 480 over a meter. That's where my better results have been found.

 

[GoatCheese]

I am running 2.7umol 450w LEDs in 4x4s. I think OP will be fine running the 480w on 100% at 60-70cm once he hits week 3 or 4 of flowering but would need to taper up. 480w would be insane in a 4x3.5, if it were me I'd try filling the tent nicely and cranking the full 480 xD

Actually..
I forgot to take in account and mention that i’m growing in soil, and soil grown plants are more sensitive to LED radiation and the plant tissue dries out easier. Hydro/coco growers can use more watts cause there is more water in the plant tissue so the plants stay in better shape under modern leds.

i totally forgot to mention the soil vs. hydro factor. Yea, hydro/coco growers can keep the leds abit closer to their plants or run their leds abit hotter.
...also the seasonal change of relative humidity plays apart on how much plants can handle LED radiation; during colder and drier winter air i have to dim my Cree cobs about 10-15% compared to more humid summer time.

Samsung LM301H are 3.10 umol so abit more power full. My Cree cobs are around 2.7 umol, i think, but the light beam is more concentrated than on the Samsungs which have smaller chips.
The cobs in my tent are already as high as i can raise them, so i always have to adjust the light levels with the dimmer. I don’t own any light meters so i’ve had to learn how to use cobs/leds by trial-n-error.

 

[GoatCheese]

Yeah, 30-35w a foot is a typical goal. I would stick a 480 over a meter. That's where my better results have been found.

30-35 watts/foot maybe be the goal, but HOW HIGH ABOVE THE CANOPY is the real issue and this really should be taken into account and mentioned when we are talking about these things.
Distance to canopy is one of the most important things when it comes to modern leds.

Here’s some info you guys might find interesting. I quoting myself here cause i just woke up and still abit too cross eyed to do too much typing.

I noticed that it’s better to keep the lights hanging high and use more watts than keeping the lights very close to canopy and using less watts.
At first i also used my cobs/leds quite close to canopy around 30-40cm but i got the yellowing happening very easily. Then i raised my cobs to hang about 75cm above canopy and noticed i could use much, much more light without the plants getting damaged
...meaning, the so called “inverse square law” of light intensity doesn’t seemingly work with modern LEDs and cannabis growing = once you have the LEDs raised high enough, you can have more lumens on canopy level without the plants getting damaged, compared to if you have the LEDs very close to canopy and you try to dim the light down to suit your plants.

As an example, if you want to achieve 700 ppfd on canopy level, it’s better to raise the LEDs quite high (75cm+) above canopy and to use more watts to get to that level, than trying to achieve that 700 ppfd level by having the LEDs very close to canopy (30-40cm)

Do you understand what i’m trying to say with this? English isn’t my first language so i’m struggling abit to find the right words to explain this any better.

 

[f-e]

30-35w per foot will achieve a reasonable 600ppfd. The 301 is a common LED to use as an example. In a fitting, with ballast losses and conformal coatings, we see about 2.7umol per watt.
2.7 x 350(per meter) gives us about 900umol in a perfect world. You could probably expect 700 at the canopy. Giving some scope to turn the light down a little.

I don't look at height as a meaningful measurement. Not since HID's which needed to spread their light. Many LED grows have lights evenly spaced out over the entire area, so don't need the height of a cob, which may have beam divergence as tight as 5 degrees.

To meaningfully compare lighting results, we should use known light meters. They are only $10. However if you don't have the light yet, then calcs based on umol/J and surface area to cover will suffice. Presuming you can spread it (and don't handicap yourself with outdated measurement system conversions)

 

[GoatCheese]

30-35w per foot will achieve a reasonable 600ppfd. The 301 is a common LED to use as an example. In a fitting, with ballast losses and conformal coatings, we see about 2.7umol per watt.
2.7 x 350(per meter) gives us about 900umol in a perfect world. You could probably expect 700 at the canopy. Giving some scope to turn the light down a little.

I don't look at height as a meaningful measurement. Not since HID's which needed to spread their light. Many LED grows have lights evenly spaced out over the entire area, so don't need the height of a cob, which may have beam divergence as tight as 5 degrees.

To meaningfully compare lighting results, we should use known light meters. They are only $10. However if you don't have the light yet, then calcs based on umol/J and surface area to cover will suffice. Presuming you can spread it (and don't handicap yourself with outdated measurement system conversions)

Distance to canopy plays a part. Try it. I told you about this many months ago, bro..
Try hitting that 600 ppfd by keeping your LEDs 30cm above canopy vs. Raising your lights 60cm above canopy and then turning the dimmer up so that you hit the same 600ppfd. You will notice a difference how your plants can handle the LED-radiation thou the ppfd number would be the same 600.

People should learn to understand how their plants behave under modern led/cob lights and what environmental factors play a part in it instead of staring a number on their light meters. You can’t fix the stress damage caused by modern leds unless you understand how it was caused in the first place, no light meter in the world will ever tell you that..

 

[zachrockbadenof]

another question kingbrite wrote me back with an option of bridgelux led's, - since the price is over 100buck diff, presume they not as powerful as cree's or osram's , but how much of a diff is there
thanks

 

[GoatCheese]

another question kingbrite wrote me back with an option of bridgelux led's, - since the price is over 100buck diff, presume they not as powerful as cree's or osram's , but how much of a diff is there
thanks

LEDs degrade over time and lower quality leds prolly start to lose their efficiency faster than better quality ones, and the same goes for drivers; Meanwell drivers are what you want on your grow lights.. ..But Bridgelux seems to be fairly good brand, atleast people seem to be happy with their Vero cobs.

The life span for good quality cobs/leds is about 7 years of use and modern white leds are fairly new technology, so most growers prolly haven’t used their white leds long enough to see a huge drop in performance yet.
..there is some talk about Samsung vs. Bridgelux on the webs from last year and the few posts/articles i read about them Samsungs seems to noticeably more efficient. Google ‘Samsung vs Bridgelux leds’

When i bought my Cree cobs, i chose them over Bridgelux Veros because i like Cree’s 3500K spectrum better; Vero had more green in the spectrum and less blue if i remember it correctly. And with led strips Samsung LM301H had similar spectrum as Cree CXB3590,but i haven’t looked into Bridgelux’s spectrum re their led chips, so i can’ t comment on those..
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I wrote in my earlier post that maybe 480W light could be abit too much for your tent, Kingbrite do have a 3x light bar version,a 320 watter, of their led fixture, but you’ll get better light coverage with the 4xlight bar 480 watter so maybe that is the better option. They have dimmers on them so you can always dim them down abit if it ends up being abit too powerful
..so, maybe i’d also go with the 480 watter after all.
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Regarding your original Q about the Cree vs. Osram chips, i doubt there’s much difference in them. They are only supplemental chips after all. Both are top quality brands, so if you want to save some money go for the cheaper option.

I don’t have any extra far-red of UV or IR chips on my DIY lights and they grow nice weed regardless. A dude has a side-by-side grow thread here on ICmag Cree cobs vs CMH lights vs ChiLeds and the Crees grew stronger cannabinoid profile than the CMH lights and he didn’t use any supplemental chips with his cob lights, and based on that thread i didn’t buy any supplemental chips to go with my cobs.

 

[f-e]

Distance to canopy plays a part. Try it. I told you about this many months ago, bro..
Try hitting that 600 ppfd by keeping your LEDs 30cm above canopy vs. Raising your lights 60cm above canopy and then turning the dimmer up so that you hit the same 600ppfd. You will notice a difference how your plants can handle the LED-radiation thou the ppfd number would be the same 600.

People should learn to understand how their plants behave under modern led/cob lights and what environmental factors play a part in it instead of staring a number on their light meters. You can’t fix the stress damage caused by modern leds unless you understand how it was caused in the first place, no light meter in the world will ever tell you that..

You did say this to me on a number of occasions, but that doesn't make it right, any more than your 20w a foot limitation makes that right.

How does a plant know how far away it's light is coming from, and how would that effect light quality. You have 3 cobs. Perhaps narrow beam divergence variants. So you need lots of height to get a good spread. Without a meter, you may never know. With my meter, I put my lights high enough to spread them evenly. No LED is more than 100mm from another, or a reflective wall. So I just don't need 2 foot of clearance. It's a meaningless number. You should recognise that it's only you that has to run your lights so high and so dim, then fix your problem. Starting with a light meter. It's a free phone app if you don't care about calibration. Perfectly ample for looking at coverage/spread.

You must recognise how different your findings are to everyone elses. People are running the CXB3590 at more than double what you are. Why can't you keep up, is the big question on my mind.

 

[GoatCheese]

You did say this to me on a number of occasions, but that doesn't make it right, any more than your 20w a foot limitation makes that right.

How does a plant know how far away it's light is coming from, and how would that effect light quality. You have 3 cobs. Perhaps narrow beam divergence variants. So you need lots of height to get a good spread. Without a meter, you may never know. With my meter, I put my lights high enough to spread them evenly. No LED is more than 100mm from another, or a reflective wall. So I just don't need 2 foot of clearance. It's a meaningless number. You should recognise that it's only you that has to run your lights so high and so dim, then fix your problem. Starting with a light meter. It's a free phone app if you don't care about calibration. Perfectly ample for looking at coverage/spread.

You must recognise how different your findings are to everyone elses. People are running the CXB3590 at more than double what you are. Why can't you keep up, is the big question on my mind.

Even if i have light meter i still can’t turn the power up on my cobs past a certain point. Whatta hell is a light meter going to change?! LOL I can see the point where my plants start show stress symptoms from the cobs/leds. My eyes work just fine and i can feel the leaves losing their softness (getting dehydrated)) with my fingers, i don’t need a meter reading to tell me all that..

There are other growers on ICMag who are suggesting people raise their leds higher so they would see the led radiation stress go away. I really wasn’t the first among weed growers to notice this, and there’s talk on other forums about this too.



I’m not advising people to use only 20 watts/ft. You just made that up.
I’m really telling people to use as much watts as they can, but so that it suits their particular grow space without their plants getting damaged. = hang your lights abit higher so you can run them with more watts. Isn’t that what i’m been saying all along. So don’t start making things up, f-e.
I have never adviced people to use their cobs/leds at a fixed number of watts, cause as i’ve been saying, it changers along with the distance to canopy, so there isn’t a fixed number of watts to use. And it changes depending on your growing style, soil vs. hydro.


If you think that distance to canopy plays no part when you’re dialing in your leds in to reach certain ppfd number, then have it your way. You could easily try this at home during the next few weeks cause you own a ppdf meter, but instead doing tests you’re telling me i’m wrong. LOL. Fine.What ever. I have better things to do than using my time for these convos.
Peace. Out.

PS.
“Why can't you keep up, is the big question on my mind.”
LOL Why can’t i keep up? You just started a thread in which you’re wondering why your plants turn yellow when your coco dries out too much!
You started another thread in which you’re talking about over feeding your plants with extra nitrogen, when the real problem is your grow lights are too close to your plants and this is why your tops are yellowing.
Yea, it’s me who can’t keep up, f-e.

 

[ozzieAI]

this is a topic i have been considering for a while ie distance v intensity. you can increase intensity by either increasing the amount of power ie more watts you give a light the brighter it shines, on the other hand you can reduce the distance the light has to travel, this also increases intensity.

i found this site: https://sites.google.com/site/lab20maxnjon/
in particular the equation 1/d[SUP]2 [/SUP](The inverse of the distance squared)

now i am not sure if what i am doing is right so please correct me if this is complete crap...

so 1/d[SUP]2 [/SUP]= watts (intensity)/distance[SUP]2 [/SUP](cm)

420/60 = 7[SUP]2 [/SUP]= 49 (Current settings)
300/43 = 6.9[SUP]2 [/SUP]= 48.6
200/28.5 = 7[SUP]2 [/SUP]= 49

so this tells me: if i reduce my wattage down to 200 and reduce the distance to 28.5 cm i should get the same intensity???

it would be great if someone with a light meter could test this for me...

 

[zachrockbadenof]

Can’t advice you about Cree vs Osram but go for the 3500K. It’s better color for both veg and bloom stages and looks more natural spectrum than the 3000K Samsung chips. I have both colors on my diy strip lights

so i am leaning to the kingbrite 480w, with samsung 301h + cree xpe2 price delivered usdollars 445.70 - or the the MARS HYDRO FC 4800 SAMSUNG LM301B OSRAM for 599.99
it seems the only diff is kingbrite uses cree's and mars uses osram's - are osram's really worth an add. 155dlrs?? - from the reading i have done cree's are pretty well thought of... any thoughts b4 i pull the trigger

 

[zachrockbadenof]

if both these lites are more/less equal in power, the one thing mars has going for it , is the delivery speed - i noticed that kingbrite will send your lite from china- 1st on a boat , i guess to the west coast, and then via air to the various US destinations - with huge backups in chinese ports, and similarly backups in west coast ports, the delivery appears to be at least 1month out from ordering, and could poss be even longer- that is certainly a fly in the ointment for us who want to start their next grow soon...

 

[Mars Hydro Led]

so i am leaning to the kingbrite 480w, with samsung 301h + cree xpe2 price delivered usdollars 445.70 - or the the MARS HYDRO FC 4800 SAMSUNG LM301B OSRAM for 599.99
it seems the only diff is kingbrite uses cree's and mars uses osram's - are osram's really worth an add. 155dlrs?? - from the reading i have done cree's are pretty well thought of... any thoughts b4 i pull the trigger

I think you need to confirm if it is real 301H. Because only a few official partners with samsung can get this kind of chip. We are one of the official partners with samsung. check this link: https://www.samsung.com/led/support/in-brand/

Another thing you need to care about is the quantity of chips. We used 2016 pcs chips for FC4800. Most of other suppliers use less than 1500 pcs for 480W light.

 

[GoatCheese]

so i am leaning to the kingbrite 480w, with samsung 301h + cree xpe2 price delivered usdollars 445.70 - or the the MARS HYDRO FC 4800 SAMSUNG LM301B OSRAM for 599.99
it seems the only diff is kingbrite uses cree's and mars uses osram's - are osram's really worth an add. 155dlrs?? - from the reading i have done cree's are pretty well thought of... any thoughts b4 i pull the trigger

You won’t be disappointed with Cree’s quality,it’s one of the leading brands on the markert, so if you want to save some money then go with the Kingbrite.
Mars may have more expensive Osram chips but the main 3500K chips are slightly lower quality Samsungs, thou those are very good chips too.
The Cree and Osram chips are supplemental chips and the main “work” is being done by the Samsung chips, so i doubt the over all difference would be that much.