Judge orders Arizona to allow MMJ sales

[Madjag]

Luckily, those of us in the small towns and Arizona's rural, dirt road areas will probably never have a dispensary within 25 miles, at least for a long time. Still, this law must get dumped for fairness sake.

Sure, and Arizona is the "fairness" state, hahaha.

If you go to the AZ Medical Marijuana website and read a few of the Director's Blog enties over the last few months, you'll find a link to the CHAA setup. It has maps that show where you live and in which CHAA you reside. it also has reports showing the current number of MM patients in each CHAA.

My CHAA (Community Health Analysis Area) has less than 100 Medical Compliant patients in the whole area! No one would likely build and operate a dispensary in that CHAA unless they think that somewhere down the road it will pay off when they sell it. I suppose some wealthy person with nothing else to do could possibly open a dispensary in this zone gambling on such a long-term plan, but in the interim they would go broke.

 

[MF Grimm]

Madjag,

The only thing is that dispensaries in outlying areas are allowed to grow and supply other dispensaries in the state.

So I have a feeling people scooping those licenses up will be operation cultivation centers as opposed to store front D's. (I mean they have to have a store front setup according to law, I just mean their main focus will be on cultivation).

Remember, there is no limit on the number of plants that D's can grow in AZ. Obviously they are going to stay under federal numbers though.

 

[Madjag]

Rural Cultivation Sites for Dispensaries

Rural Cultivation Sites for Dispensaries

What Federal numbers? It's illegal Federally. The notation on the AZ MM website means that the cultivators had best consult Federal laws before they go hog wild growing a huge field. When they say "may want to consult with an attorney" they mean it's not a simple matter and that being a "grey area" in the MM Laws, it's dangerous as well:

DI31: Is there a limit to how much medical marijuana a dispensary can have or grow?
Neither the Arizona Medical Marijuana Act nor the Department's rules limit the amount of medical marijuana a dispensary may have or grow. However, a dispensary may want to consult with an attorney about Federal marijuana-related laws and regulations.

As for scooping up, on the Arizona Medical Marijuana website it says:

DI33: Do I have to say where my cultivation site will be when I apply for a dispensary?
No, an applicant can add a cultivation site when submitting an application for approval to operate. After the initial dispensary registration certificate is issued, a dispensary may add a cultivation site (up to one per dispensary) or change a cultivation site's location at any point during the process. There is a fee for changing or adding a cultivation site to a dispensary's registration certificate.

and

DI32: If I don't want to have a cultivation site as part of my dispensary, can I buy medical marijuana from another dispensary?
Yes, a dispensary must follow certain rules for acquiring medical marijuana from another dispensary.

and

DI29: How should a dispensary obtain its original stock?
According to the Arizona Medical Marijuana Act, a dispensary can acquire marijuana from other registered nonprofit dispensaries or from a registered qualifying patient or designated caregiver if the patient or caregiver is not compensated for the marijuana.

and

DI30: Can I get my inventory from the street?
The law limits the places a dispensary can acquire marijuana to other registered nonprofit dispensaries or from a registered qualifying patient or designated caregiver if the patient or caregiver is not compensated for the marijuana.


I'm curious, where did you get the idea that rural dispensaries can grow at more than one cultivation site?

Madjag,

The only thing is that dispensaries in outlying areas are allowed to grow and supply other dispensaries in the state.

So I have a feeling people scooping those licenses up will be operation cultivation centers as opposed to store front D's. (I mean they have to have a store front setup according to law, I just mean their main focus will be on cultivation).

Remember, there is no limit on the number of plants that D's can grow in AZ. Obviously they are going to stay under federal numbers though.

 

[stasis]

By Federal Numbers, I think MF Grimm means 99 plants..

 

[hazy]

The CHAA scheme to spread the dispensaries around in order keep patients from being able to grow their own and forcing them to buy from dispensaries needs to be challenged in court. Will Humble said he did it to make sure that rural patients aren't under served. Bullshit. They did it so we can not grow.

 

[mofeta]

Hi Madjag

What he meant was that although a dispensary in a rural CHAA like yours wouldn't have enough local patient customers to be viable, they are allowed to sell what they grow to other dispensaries. So, someone could have a dispensary out in the middle of nowhere, with no patient customers, but selling tons to other dispensaries in the cities where there are plenty of patients.

They only real stumbling block is the specter of Federal raids and prosecution. The haze of uncertainty created by the president's crackdown on MMJ in California and other places would have an especially chilling effect on the opening of these "no patient" dispensaries, as it seems that DEA/DOJ are looking at the degree of separation between producer and patient in deciding who to bust/intimidate. The issue of going over the Fed mandatory sentencing numbers is not as big of a obstacle, people could use "tree" techniques like they do in other states, 99 4lb trees every couple of months=lots of weed.

The CHAA scheme to spread the dispensaries around in order keep patients from being able to grow their own and forcing them to buy from dispensaries needs to be challenged in court. Will Humble said he did it to make sure that rural patients aren't under served. Bullshit. They did it so we can not grow.

So true.

The guys who wrote the law, designing it to ensure the supremacy of dispensaries, forcing patients to buy from them (25 mile rule, 2.5 oz limit, etc.), had the wind taken out of their sails when Gov Brewer suspended the dispensary portion of the law while waiting for clarification from the Feds.

Only time will tell how much pressure the Feds will put on any dispensaries opening in AZ. If they make it painful enough, we may not have to worry about the 25 mile rule, no dispensaries=everyone can grow.

The other main prong of the plot devised by the law's underhanded authors, the more insidious one, is the 2.5 oz limit. It would be hard enough to comply with this indoors, and impossible outdoors, unless 2.5 oz lasts you all year.

 

[Madjag]

Underhanded and underwhelmed with love.

As my Jamaican friends say, "Dirty game play twice" and "One man's mistake is another man's beefsteak". These dispensary owners will have to compete with the underground economy in addition to one another. And Arizona doesn't have the blend factor that Cali does. You know how 30+ million people, with a significant number of the population being "alternative", is easier on the eyes than conservative AZ's stand-out effect (except perhaps for Tucson and Phoenix).

I suppose it's within the realm of current risk-taking to concieve of rich investors grabbing rural CHAA dispensary permits in order to merely grow for others. They'll stick out like sore thumbs federally and I sure wouldn't want to be under that microscope. I'd rather grow remote and wild.

Thanks for your input and analysis. I visited the Tucson collective recently and all their medicine was $50 per eigth ounce, just like the street. Seems like the dispensary scene will be interesting and the current lawsuit challenging the MM law even more so.

Until that first plant of a MM outdoor cultivation authorized patient's 12 is cut at harvest, you're legal. From that moment on, you're not.

Hi Madjag

The other main prong of the plot devised by the law's underhanded authors, the more insidious one, is the 2.5 oz limit. It would be hard enough to comply with this indoors, and impossible outdoors, unless 2.5 oz lasts you all year.

 

[SacredBreh]

Great post Trickrider!

Great post Trickrider!

Congratulations Arizona! Now if we could only get the rest of the judges to follow the law and Will of The People!

It is coming..... slowly but surely. When I was a kid we used to talk about all this for hours...... puff, puff, pass...... Never really thought I would see the day.

Need to keep the pressure on and stay active, involved, and visible.... well, politically visible that is......

Madjag you are exactly right! Be cautious as hell. It is a gamble in any state until everything gets tested by a jury of your peers or you win Federal Roulette. In my state some of the ones that are doing well today bought their way into the white market with their black market money... would have sworn they would have gone down first but nope. In some ways I think the state once they start seeing the money, figure they just killed two birds with one stone..... eliminated black market competition and gained a tax paying business. Nope..... not from Cali.

Peace

 

[paper thorn]

The guys who wrote the law, designing it to ensure the supremacy of dispensaries, forcing patients to buy from them (25 mile rule, 2.5 oz limit, etc.), had the wind taken out of their sails when Gov Brewer suspended the dispensary portion of the law while waiting for clarification from the Feds.

Only time will tell how much pressure the Feds will put on any dispensaries opening in AZ. If they make it painful enough, we may not have to worry about the 25 mile rule, no dispensaries=everyone can grow.

The other main prong of the plot devised by the law's underhanded authors, the more insidious one, is the 2.5 oz limit. It would be hard enough to comply with this indoors, and impossible outdoors, unless 2.5 oz lasts you all year.

Yep, you would have to have one hell of a perfectly planned grow to keep an oz or 2.5 coming every two weeks. And with only 12 plants lol.

I think that it's funny that Gov Brewer said stop the dispensaries while her lawsuit was addressed. The judge said no state employees have ever been subject to arrest so it was pointless. Then US Attorney Ann Scheel wrote her a letter saying that state employees were in fact subject to prosecution and landlords who rent to dispensaries etc, would definitely be prosecuted, and she didn't even blink.

I think during the last year she became aware of the fact that lots of regular people are growing and she wants the dispensaries now to stop us.

 

[eyecandi]

it's not hard to plan a grow to harvest well over 2.5oz every couple weeks with a 12plant grow. we (in Colorado) have been at this for a while and the 'won't go over federal limits' comment someone made is a crock, believe me .... the grow won't care - there are MANY commercially licensed warehouse operations here with 1000+ plants. with a number of folks fleeing the state in search of 'greener pastures' (the green rush died here a couple years ago), any new MMJ State is bound to get a number of highly qualified commercial growers move in.

 

[Nor'Easter]

So how many and which states have dispensaries and which have legal limbo?

 

[mofeta]

...it's not hard to plan a grow to harvest well over 2.5oz every couple weeks with a 12plant grow.

You misunderstand. Our law requires you to stay UNDER 2.5 oz. You may not posses more than 2.5 oz for yourself, or for each patient you caregive for. Non-growers may not buy more than 2.5 oz in any two week period.

Although a skilled grower can time the harvests to stay under 2.5 oz at a time indoors, it is basically impossible to grow outside and comply with the law, even with the three growing seasons that the lower deserts have (unless you use very little herb).

 

[eyecandi]

for the indoor growers, best bet is to trim the lower crap and keep the premium tops anyways, so that sounds almost win-win. how are they dealing with keif/hash/edibles? here, keif/hash are just weight - so someone could harvest and hash it all to really lighten the load
I hear ya on the outdoor thing .... but here they don't allow outdoor 'visible' grows (the stupidest part of the laws here IMO, we have more sun to grow with then almost anywhere ... yet have to instead supply the power companies with tons of $$$$$)

 

[paper thorn]

it's not hard to plan a grow to harvest well over 2.5oz every couple weeks with a 12plant grow. we (in Colorado) have been at this for a while and the 'won't go over federal limits' comment someone made is a crock, believe me .... the grow won't care - there are MANY commercially licensed warehouse operations here with 1000+ plants. with a number of folks fleeing the state in search of 'greener pastures' (the green rush died here a couple years ago), any new MMJ State is bound to get a number of highly qualified commercial growers move in.

Really, not hard at all. Well, eyecandi, I guess you folks up in Colorado are just a whole bunch better than us down here in Podunk, AZ. Damn, maybe you should just start a thread about when to start vegging each plant and how big and how long and all to let em go till you flip and then how to keep them where you only harvest 2.5 ounces or less every 14 days. Save me and all of us way-behind guys down here a bunch of brain work.
It could be done, in certain situations, with certain strains, but not without some careful planning.
And forget having multiple strains. Flower time differences will screw up everything. Moms will also put you over the limit. So will clones. The 12 is total plants. You would have to take that into account when planning the grow schedule.

What did you mean anyway, that I could just grow trees and make the goal of enough smoke easy? Easy peasy, cept then as soon as I chop i'm Breaking the Law!

Good thing is that the law has no provision for inspection of patient and caregiver grows. But I am staying legal by the numbers and know another patient who pools his plant numbers with mine so that we can have multiple strains.

Edibles are supposed to be measured by how much weight went into the batch. At least as it pertains to dispensaries and infusion facilities that dispensaries will use.

 

[eyecandi]

lol, i'm not here to be better then anyone and if your on this site, you probably already know how to do it, or at least use a 'search function' to find out. it's been covered so many times it's not even funny, it's just proper planning is all i'm saying. was just trying to be a little helpful, from another states' perspective .... but i'll shut up now since you seem to have it all nailed.

as for clones - not hard to get a group of friends together with the common goal of 'sharing genetics' ... one person has a few moms and supplies cuts to the others. the others supply one person with all they need for smoke/ingestion.


there are no provisions here for inspections of patient/CG grows either (yet, some municipalities are trying), it's usually a complaint of some sort that brings the po-po knocking and if you have paperwork and a mostly correct plant count (seen it both ways - a few over limit, cops walks. few over limit, cop makes him chop-chop. never seen anyone get nailed yet (jail/ticket) that was within a few of thier rec. count.

 

[paper thorn]

lol, i'm not here to be better then anyone and if your on this site, you probably already know how to do it, or at least use a 'search function' to find out. it's been covered so many times it's not even funny, it's just proper planning is all i'm saying. was just trying to be a little helpful, from another states' perspective .... but i'll shut up now since you seem to have it all nailed.

That's just it eyecandi, I don't "have it nailed".
Search function? You mean like to search for how to run a perpetual grow? I've been doing that for long enough. Now what we need help with is trying to stay legal-and you seem to know just how to time that grow so you should just lay it on me and quit saying it's easy and just show me.

Listen bud, I don't want to fight with you, you just came on with that "it's easy, we've been doing it for years" thing. Sounded a bit high and mighty.

My point is that the laws that 'they' write have placed these limitations that are unrealistic on us. You would have to one badass grower/planner to stay legal if you do it the way the law intends. Me being a badass grower, JK, can pull it off though.

And you're right, teaming up with other growers is the only way to do it and have any variety and not have to pull your hair out trying to grow the exact size plants on an exact schedule.


Back to the real point of this thread. I hope the dispensaries never open. Unless I get to grow for one of course!

 

[paper thorn]

Well, the AzDHS will be taking dispensary apps for ten days staring May 15. So one more year of patient grows, maybe more for a few.
With only 125 dispensaries, that doesn't allow for very many growers to have work.

http://directorsblog.health.azdhs.gov/?p=2479
This is the Department of Health Services director's blog on accepting dispensary apps.

 

[Madjag]

 

[Madjag]

More Problems for Dispensaries in Arizona

More Problems for Dispensaries in Arizona

Bookmark this website if you want to stay on top of Arizona Medical Marijuana law as well as all Federally-important legal decisions that may influence it:

http://www.keytlaw.com/arizonamedicalmarijuanalaw/

Maricopa County Superior Court Ruling May be Last Nail in the Coffin of the Unborn Arizona Medical Marijuana Dispensary Industry

H. Richard Keyt, on his valuable legal news and info website, was first to break the news on this story. It summarizes a recent legal decision in Maricopa County Superior Court (April 17, 2012) in favor of the defendants in a dispensary case where two people lost 500k each after they loaned the money to a dispensary company. The company declared bankruptcy and the loaners attempted to sue for recovery of their loans.

The judge ruled that the loan's intent was illegal under US Federal law and as thus the loan contract was unenforceable:

“The explicitly stated purpose of these loan agreements was to finance the sale and distribution of marijuana. This was in clear violation of the laws of the United States. As such, this contract is void and unenforceable. This Court recognizes the harsh result of this ruling. Although Plaintiffs did not plead any equitable right to recovery such as unjust enrichment, or restitution, this Court considered whether such relief may be available to these Plaintiffs. Equitable relief is not available when recovery at law is forbidden because the contract is void as against public policy.”

It's a bad omen for anyone thinking of investing in a dispensary, renting to one, or even possibly working there.

Maybe now the 25-Mile Rule will fall soon as well and cultivation by patients will rule.

 

[Madjag]

AZ Dispensary Applications are Coming In

AZ Dispensary Applications are Coming In

The Arizona Department of Health Services began accepting Dispensary Registration Certificate Applications for the 10 working days from May 14, 2012 through May 25, 2012.

Every day on the Dispensary Page they post (as a PDF) the new applications for each CHAA (Community Health Analysis Area). It's called the "Registration Certificate Application Report":

http://www.azdhs.gov/medicalmarijuana/dispensaries/index.htm

15 applications for 13 areas were submitted on the first day, yesterday Monday the 14th of May:

2 - Williams
1 - Sedona
1 - St. Johns
1 - Chino Valley/Ash Fork
2 - Yavapai County South/Bagdad
1 - Prescott
1 - Paradise Valley Village (Phx)
1 - Camelback East (Phx)
1 - Mesa West (Phx)
1 - South Mountain (Phx)
1 - Ajo
1 - Tucson East Central
1 - Bisbee

I find it interesting to see where the true gamblers are putting their dollars. With the uncertainty of whether or not patients will be able to grow their own herb and not have to purchase from a dispensary, the early birds submitting applications now feel it's worth it regardless. If the 25-Mile Rule banning cultivation if you're within a 25 mile radius of a dispensary stands, these investors will have virtual monopolies.

Hopefully there are some big-hearted folks among the future Arizona dispensary owners who are putting up their 5K dispensary application fee because they truly want to help others. Perhaps they'll be selling their herb at reasonable prices.

I found it interesting that the small towns are jumping in first. Sedona, Williams, Bisbee, Prescott all have a good share of open-minded and alternative lifestyle folks living in their areas. It makes sense that they might be looking at the whole deal from a different perspective than someone investing in a permit app in Scottsdale. It may be my bias, however I think these towns will have some dynamic dispensaries.

Keep tuned!