jamaican "lambsbread"

[Mustafunk]

Im NOT saying you have to change your Ideology thats yours... But im saying your Lines will probably become weak with the Years. Just my Analysis, not saying anything.

Sure, that's why i'm glad knowing Rahan is a biologist with enough knowledge on plant genetics, and year after year kept reproducing batches of seeds from the original thousands from his first open pollination, in order to avoid the issues and genetic drift from small populations. 50 plants x 10 times means 500 plants. Not the same as 1000 but probably getting closer to a perfect enough population with the time.

I also keep enough frozen seeds from a refreshing reproduction done by a friend and talented grower under tropical sun in the right latitude and environmental conditions, for long term and future in-situ genetic conservation.

So don't worry, the most important work has been done already by some people, especially knowing there are hundreds of cultivars getting extinct by now. Doing indoor dozen plant repros one after the other is just producing even more inbreeding and doing more harm than good to the cultivar's genepool really. Reproduce, storage right and move on to the next one is what Cannabis really needs, if the goal is preserving genetics rather than egos.

 

[romanoweed]

Doing indoor dozen plant repros one after the other is just producing even more inbreeding and doing more harm than good to the cultivar's genepool really. Reproduce, storage right and move on to the next one is what Cannabis really needs, if the goal is preserving genetics rather than egos.

So, then you agree that smallscale Selection can be harmfull, and even a Rahan needs to do it in 10 seperate Steps to perform a healthy Selection. (1000 Plants)


But then why did he fail while approximately preserving that Lambsbread?

Let me tell you what i see as a good Approach:

1: A given initial Landrace:
2: is open pollinated , generating as many thousands of Seeds as possible
3: is shared in a Community but under caution cause 90 Percent of People recieving seeds might straight run away byby.
4: 10 Percent People of the Bunch who all swore they will do whether a Openpoll, plus a Selection OR just straight a Selection hold a Fraction of the forthliving Geenepool once they selected.

PLUSSIDE:

-Nobody "has" to do all himselve
-Multiple Minds might, just might have a better Feel for Selection. OR might make a mess. But even a Good Scientist does mistakes. Dangerous? Multiple Minds saver? I tend rather trust in multiple.
-If someone gets busted it doesent matter, if someone selects wrong, the better Selections vive on.

MINUSSIDE:

-Cause most people after long thirst for real Races, not Ogkush will tend to do openPoll first to be save, wich brings you one Generation lower without Selection. Therefore Wild hempy Side endangering Race.


CONCLUSION: compared to your Ideas, i see just more Plussides. I tend to believe keeping more than every tenth Plant or so IS required to avoid inbreedign Depro. Rather 500 Plants of 1000 has to be kept. I tend to think SOFT SELECTION over MANY GENERATIONS outperforms HIGH SELECTION PRESSURE over 1 GEN, highnumbered like 1000s Plants or not.

Im not shure if Rahan could handle this SoftSelection i just told, or two of his Colleges. That would make yet another Pluspoint on List.


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Im just sceptical about Biologists Conclusions, but who am i . Well atleast im highly passionate about it. Why am i sceptical, cause i hear of LOSS of FIRE all the Time. They often adress Landraces as improovable. What they mean is Stabilisation and loosing unvafored Traits like Herimes. Sometimes they go boundless over to: Thin Buds beeing also an unwnated Trait. An Nodespacing being bad, and budstructure...

Thats what they sometimes call Improovement, the abundance of bad Traits. Atleast thats all im hearing..

Rarely they talk about FIRE when they talk about improvement.

So: Someone Not adressing FIRE, the fierce Effect of a Landrace enough, will probably be not my favored Breeder. Biologist or not.

I feel somehow Breeders often dont adress heightend EFFECT with Improvement.

For me as a longago Consumant of Tripweed, i adress heightend Effect with Improovement.

Never have i heard someone created more Thai out of Thai. To improoved Thai IN MY OPPO.


Thats why i think Biologists should first try to hold FIRE upright, just upright. Im not speaking of Quantity/Amount of FIRE bytheway.


Sometimes thats what i might get as Anwser: now Breeder__ made each Plant abit trippy, instead of 1 of 10 beeing insane hallucinogen.

If i talk about Improvement it can never come on Cost of any Amount of Percent of Ultimativeness.

 

[romanoweed]

Last post In one Sentence:

As i seem to hear: Breeders, if now Biologist or not, dont keep up Ultimativeness , and they rather should focus on just staying at the same Level of Ultimativeness (in the oppinion as a longago Consuments of hallucinogenic Weed).

Remember , the only Reports of Trippingweed comes from: direct out Origin Country, direct imported buds, or possibly first Repros.

The only reports of hilerously colorfull/tastefull, healthy other Species, such as tomatos comes frome such Sources aswell. NOT to confuse with the enorm Pressure and Quest for Quantity in Foodsector, still from the few Breederdokumentaries and such, i never seen anything as good as Landrace.

 

[Roms]

Raho found his Lambsbreath was becoming depressed.

2: Todays Breeders never seam to create something stronger than actual Landraces. The only Races thet made People Trip were smoked directly at Source in SEAsia and such, or from imported Buds, sometimes from some Repros of them. I never ever heard someone increased Potency, and he made a Thaistick more Thaistick, meaning more hallucinogenic as before.

Hi Romano, it all depends on breeders and their selection. So yes you can quickly devalue a landrace with wrong parents not as good as others but you can also improve and upgrade the genetic if you especially find good parents. That's the breeding game and of course it's without considering the different growing conditions far from the original geographical source. Anyway to reassure you there's different lines of this Bushman's Lambsbread nowadays!


Rahan started the preservation with few specimens in a little box, by chance and love some good parents appeared and the genetic has been well refined and sexually more stabilized, F2 and F3 from him. Then friends worked with the F3s but different lines comes from that point. For example JGL made some F4s but the Vibes Collective made others F4s with different parents and then different growers worked both separatly so... The same landrace origin can produce sensibly differents lines, quality and all according major specimens found or not. The genetic bottleneck and issue isn't necessary depressed before the F10... ^^ Then it's another genetic story, you need to backcross your result to the landrace origin so yes i think that improve the thing in the end is possible even with small population and inbreeding!

 

[romanoweed]

We probably better talk of Vietnamese for that Surpose
why? Cause hallucinogen Weed is rather from other Regions.

Halucinogenity could be ONE of the FEW Traits that Stands and falls with Breeding.

How hallucinogeic is the Vietblack before or after? Exactness please..?

Vietblack Lowgen:

Vietblack Lontimeselection:

Ultimativity report:

First i see , sense feel the Selection has more good Phenos, The Lowgen is really weak in some. I just feel it.
There is however something, i cant describe it now, its kind of no brilliance abundant in the Selection, and i dont adress it to wrong selection. Just feelings..

The Selection has more of a roundabout good High wich is nice, whera the Lowgen has more of a spiritual touch/feel, i not wanna miss

 

[MAHA KALA]

wait wait wait. why you are talking about hallucinogenic weed? I thought JLB is happy warm social creative simply Irie! weed? not tripweed..

 

[Roms]

+1 Maha! It can be trippy but only at high over dose and it's not as strong as others dark African or Thai.

The Lambsbread is on the white side i would say... ^^

 

[Rembetis]

These photos are from Nine Mile in the early 80's. Nine Mile wasn't a tourist stop back then. It was a small collection of houses, all Marley family deep in the jungle. On the way up the mountain wherever we'd stop the kids would run up and yell "Whitey". The adults apologized and said most of them hadnt ever seen a white person. As I said it was way before tourists. No big deal to us. We didnt take offense.

This was supposed to be Bobs garden and was being maintained by his family. It was near the mausoleum which was still being worked on. It was December so I didnt get to see any big plants.

 

[Thesearch]

My understanding was that Lambsbread was basically a Rastafari term for good weed. not sure if anyone said this already, but if that is the case, these may be more then one landrace to begin with

 

[Rembetis]

This particular thread is about JGL's line which he calls Lambsbread but you are correct. I would have to say that the average Jamaicans knowledge of strains way back then was pretty limited. It was all Ganja and I didnt meet anyone that differentiated between lines from different parts of the Island. Doesnt mean that there wasnt someone but I dont think most of them really cared about it. It was still highly illegal back then and there werent enough tourists seeking it out since most never left the resort properties. They grew it for themselves and the occasional people that went off the beaten track.

I didnt score any bud that trip but they were all very friendly and appreciated us coming all the way up there to pay our respects so they sent us away with a couple grams of hand rubbed charas from the previous crop. Shit like that just doesnt happen anymore

 

[Roms]

Vibes Rembetis, thanks for sharing those old pics! Wow another great document bravo!

About the term of lambsbread here it comes from the singer Bushman, initiator of this line, from the same rasta community as Bob, Peter and Bunny. At the time of the share with Dan early 2000 he said that this genetic was endangered and very rare in Jamaica. Indeed today this old sativa is mostly unknown by the rastamen on the island and have to be reintroduced if we can.

By hoping this is what will happen in the next few years. I've sent some F4 and F5 to Jamaicans years ago but sadly no news. Some of the last F6 are gone to rasta from St Vincent too. Now we are also in contact with Dr Machel from Kingston so with time the Vibes Collective can be proud to save and perpetuate.

This said the term lambsbread is pure cultural of course but it also describe a particulary kind of sativa with particulary effects. That's a kind of genetic little known nowadays by modern smokers even if it represents a whole range of the sativa landraces from certain regions of Africa, India, Indonesia and Oceania.

So if you have those sources you simply have the "lambsbread" ya know. A pure no celling and happy effects in comparison to others pure sativa with stronger trippiness or dangerous hearbeating. Of course even if all is a question of dose there's multiple kind of quality with pure sativa i think. Vibes Thesearch!

 

[romanoweed]

yep, thats exactly what i spoke about when adressing hallucinogenity, its ultimativeness, and my concern about its vanishing away.
What i smoked once (unknown bud) was so hallucinogenic, it was already becoming soft PROBABLY CAUSE it was so hallucinogenic. No heartbeating for me..
It was rather calm, nearly 100 Percent Anxietyfree.

Now i compare to yet another unknown Bud i smoked: was hallucinogenic aswell, but not as realitychanging as the other one, AND it was pretty Anxietyfull, like the basic Weedanxiety you always get.

My Expereince with first Bud was so ultimate, THATS WHY im bit concerned, if any Breeder, BIologist or not, compromises even a Cent of Ultimativeness.
Acording my Experience i could imaine all you end up with, is the secound Bud Effects i described with very much anxiety heartbeating.. Overall reasonabe Experience, but.. not as good.

Probably you now you understand bit what i mean.

And yes, i saw that Vibes Lambsbread Line, it looks pretty anxietyfree aswell.
Just thought i bring the preservability up. I would like to know in very clear Thems how the High changed till F3 from Rahan. Woul you be AS happy, as transported, as spiritual feeling with the F3s best Pheno? My lowgen Vietblacks display spiritual Feel stronger than the selected.

As i understand he didnt loose Vigor, only the others who did f4, f5 if thats right.
I would love to know more and hear Rahan speak probably, cause i aim on doing same Things , but only one day possibly, give me time. But give me knowledge already, otherwise im not very motivated to aim thowards preservation.

 

[Rembetis]

Hello Roms,
I asked around last year and couldn't get solid leads but it is around. I was in Belmont Bluefields 5 years ago and saw it but last year I went back and it was hybrid stuff.

The locals say that the native absorbs the hybrids and goes back to normal after several years. We all know thats not true so lets hope someone has it pure but probably a native dominant plant is the best we can hope for.

I think I should go back down there and do some research

Also, the weed I picked up later looked to be the same as what we saw in Nine Mile. It was special. I would describe it as very electric, like energy pulsing thru the body and very close to being psychedelic. Light and sound was extremely enhanced. I always assumed it had to do with the tropical sun

 

[Hempy McNoodle]

If people grew 'Kerala' in Jamaica would it be much different than what was there in the 70s?

 

[willydread]

We do not know if the Indian genetics at the origin of the Jamaican weed was from kerala, mysore or other places in India ...
Let's not underestimate the Mexican and Colombian genetics, introduced in the 70s, before the Afghani ....

 

[Rembetis]

Hempy, I would bet it would be different, at least for several generations until it adapted. Would be an interesting experiment to plant it around the island at various altitudes and regions and see how it compared after a few generations.

Willydread, I've often wondered if the electric high I experienced might have come from either a Mexican or Columbian influence

 

[Roms]

Just thought i bring the preservability up. I would like to know in very clear Thems how the High changed till F3 from Rahan. Woul you be AS happy, as transported, as spiritual feeling with the F3s best Pheno? My lowgen Vietblacks display spiritual Feel stronger than the selected.

As i understand he didnt loose Vigor, only the others who did f4, f5 if thats right.
I

Be positive bro, quasi nothing is lost whether effects or vigor. The only important thing unselected from the start is its intersex dominance. Well i talk about the selected purple line from the Vibesco F4s then F5 by Overgrowdaworld and recently F6 by ChiefOrganic and me. As i said before there's another F4 line reproduced by JGL and then worked F5 by Blan-k-flor who kept the intersex trait. And maybe more reproductions by others i don't know its history from the Spanish scene, Mustafunk should know.

Hello Roms,
I asked around last year and couldn't get solid leads but it is around. I was in Belmont Bluefields 5 years ago and saw it but last year I went back and it was hybrid stuff.
(...)
I think I should go back down there and do some research

Hey cool man if you find roots rasta people with the old pure lambsbread take the time to visit the team of Dr Emanuel Machel in Kingston and tell him your sources. Maybe they don't know and it will be a big + for their future studies and work around this Jamaican heirloom and its preservation. Peace good research bro!

 

[Roms]

About the Mexican or Colombian origin perso i don't believe it.
The rasta connection is with Ethiopia and the Ethiopian connection is with South India.

(The really old South Americans pure sativa could come from the East by the Austronesians a long time ago, this cultural connection is proven by archeologist).

 

[willydread]

Sorry friend, but the last of the countries from which lambsbread could come from is Ethiopia;when the Rastafari movement was born, the use of ganjah was already widespread in Jamaica, remember: collie weed, the weed of the collies (Indians), it could be that after the fall of H. I. M. Haile Selassie I, when the socialists for a time threatened the Rasta community of Sashamane, some brethren returned to Jamaica, taking some Ethiopian cannabis seeds with them,but this happened in the 70's ... in the same period Jamaica was already a big producer of ganjah, and it was on Colombian routes ...
In the end, the most likely hypothesis is that it is (like the Creole population) a mix of different countries, with strong Indian dominance ...
By the way: Interestingly, in addition to ganjah, seedless weed is called sensimilla, a Spanish term ...

 

[herbgreen]

And the Colombian may have originated in Borneo strangely enough....right?

Let's all take a trip down the rabbit hole!

Its just blessing to have some of these bushman lambsbread hybrids around

i do think the Colombian and S Indian is a real thing....and Ethiopian



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