is this a cal, mag, zinc or some other deficiency

[zachrockbadenof]

plants are growing in soil, a combo of fox farm ocean forrest and pro-mix with some earth worm castings - nutes are the 12 or 13 diff bottles of fox farm.... growing under an led....21days into 12/12, growing nicely, but a couple are showing some funky leaves... at the top of the plants... bottoms look fine... any ideas??

 

[FranJan]

Looks like you have some thrip damage on some leaves. You should take a few more photos. Full strength or half strength on the FoxFarms?

 

[zachrockbadenof]

Looks like you have some thrip damage on some leaves. You should take a few more photos. Full strength or half strength on the FoxFarms?

i give em full strength nutes once a week... fox farms says upto twice a week... closeup pics to follow

 

[zachrockbadenof]

here is a better pic

 

[led05]

plants are growing in soil, a combo of fox farm ocean forrest and pro-mix with some earth worm castings - nutes are the 12 or 13 diff bottles of fox farm.... growing under an led....21days into 12/12, growing nicely, but a couple are showing some funky leaves... at the top of the plants... bottoms look fine... any ideas??

Mg, Fe, Ca, K deficits showing- maybe a few micros too, better pic helped.... I think perhaps too many inputs, base cations locking each other out etc... wet feet by any chance too..?

If it were me I'd let them dry out, foliar feed some quality chelates around minerals I mentioned

Peace & GL,

PS: FFOF can be hot just on its' own too....

 

[zachrockbadenof]

i don't think wet feet, as i water them with about 40oz of water every 3 days- or when the probe shows em to be dry... i will try some foliar feeding to see if it helps.... its only happening on '2' plants , a karma headbanger, and an old rez sour diesel kush... i also have some purple punch,rutz, panama, and a chemdog bx2 , and they show no signs of any problem...

and yeah ffof is hot, but they vegg;d in it for 5 weeks, and now 3 weeks into 12/12...

 

[jackspratt61]

i don't think wet feet, as i water them with about 40oz of water every 3 days- or when the probe shows em to be dry... i will try some foliar feeding to see if it helps.... its only happening on '2' plants , a karma headbanger, and an old rez sour diesel kush... i also have some purple punch,rutz, panama, and a chemdog bx2 , and they show no signs of any problem...

and yeah ffof is hot, but they vegg;d in it for 5 weeks, and now 3 weeks into 12/12...

Where's the ph? Showing hard k and calcium. Can you post whole plant?

 

[zachrockbadenof]

Where's the ph? Showing hard k and calcium. Can you post whole plant?

i have those shitty dipping sticks, and they show mid 6's on the ph... here are some add. pics

 

[TanzanianMagic]

plants are growing in soil, a combo of fox farm ocean forrest and pro-mix with some earth worm castings - nutes are the 12 or 13 diff bottles of fox farm.... growing under an led....21days into 12/12, growing nicely, but a couple are showing some funky leaves... at the top of the plants... bottoms look fine... any ideas??

- Just as a nutrient deficiency, it looks like magnesium deficiency/lockout.

The older leaves are more affected than the tops, so the deficiency/lockout is progressive (N, P, K, Mg). The thickening of the leaves, the slighlty blueish hue of the dark green leaves, and the fact that it's just gone into flowering all point towards magnesium deficiency/lockout.

- Why is it deficient/locked out?

That could be the instability created by using 2 different media, Fox Farm Ocean Forest and Pro-Mix.

Then, there are the 12-13 different bottles of fox farm.

The thing with these media is, that you're going to use a brand and nutrients, you should stick to that one brand and use that line. Why - because the nutrients were tested to work with that line. Whatever nutrient deficiencies showed up during that tested were dealt with by adjusting the medium or the nutrients.

It would be helpful to know the pH and EC or PPM of the nutrient solution and the run-off. 6.5 is ok for an organic based grow, however it could also point to too many nutrients lowering the pH.

 

[greencalyx]

So this last picture shown (by zachrockbadenof), with the downturned leaf tips, is this also a sign of some deficiency?

I am having some deficiency problems myself, and see this in my own plants. I thought it was a sign I may have overdone it with nutes. But I am VERY new to all this, and am currently doing my first grow. Also using FF soil and nutes

 

[Creeperpark]

The downturned tips are from heavy salts in the soil. I have found that using Foxfarms one is better off giving low-dose feeds with every watering instead of heavy one-time doses, then plain water a few times.

Also, water quality matters when using FoxFarms potting mixes. If you use tap water with a high ppm the extra tap ppm can lock out the good nutrients looking like a deficiency in flowering. Heres a live FFOF in a Pro-mix soil plant. The plant left of the lighter is a FoxFarmsPromix plant on a low-dose feed with every watering. She'll be ready in about 20 days.

 

[Creeperpark]

If one keeps a steady ppm on a regular basis the plant adapts without problems. If there are soil swings the plant has to change adaption and conform to new soil chemistry. Sometimes a plant can't change fast enough looking like a deficiency. Keeping a steady incoming EC is key.

 

[FletchF.Fletch]

Have you tested your runoff ( the liquid that runs out from the containers when you irrigate ) to see where the ph and EC or ppm numbers are? Checking these will let you be sure whether it's a deficiency or if it's actually nutrient lockout from slow steady buildup in the rootzone. If you can only measure ph, having an abnormally low ph runoff is a pretty good indicator of lockout.

Good Luck!

 

[jackspratt61]

i have those shitty dipping sticks, and they show mid 6's on the ph... here are some add. pics

High na or mg blocking k and calcium.When you see multiple problems at once and your ph is ok and you're not overwatering then look to calcium first for balance. Calcium controls everything and phosphorus controls calcium. Can you look at the roots easily? At 21 days you should have strong,thick white roots.Feed N,ca and k only. What calcium inputs do you have?

 

[zachrockbadenof]

well i amazon'd today , buying a good ph probe, and an ec probe- 210bucks total for the both of em... tried to find a 2in1 probe, could not find one other then the shitty 15/20/30buck one... which i already have

 

[zachrockbadenof]

hey .. thanks for all your help so far- i ordered and received today the blue 'truncheon' that measures ec/ppm - the ph meter has not arrived
i tested my plain water n it registers... ec 0.2/ ppm 500 (tds) , ppm 700 (ec x 700)

i made up a mixture of the foxfarm nutes and the reading was
ec - between 3.0/3.2- so between a ppm 500 (tds) of 1500/1600 , ppm 700 (ec x 700) of 2100/2240...

as u can see i have no clue, not an idea what these numbers mean... as the drowning man yells...

H E L P....

 

[TanzanianMagic]

hey .. thanks for all your help so far- i ordered and received today the blue 'truncheon' that measures ec/ppm - the ph meter has not arrived
i tested my plain water n it registers... ec 0.2/ ppm 500 (tds) , ppm 700 (ec x 700)

i made up a mixture of the foxfarm nutes and the reading was
ec - between 3.0/3.2- so between a ppm 500 (tds) of 1500/1600 , ppm 700 (ec x 700) of 2100/2240...

as u can see i have no clue, not an idea what these numbers mean... as the drowning man yells...

H E L P....

Basically EC is standardized and PPM is not. I'll use the EC and when I use PPM it is on the 500 scale (0.1 EC = 50 PPM, 0.2 EC = 100 PPM, etc. Basically EC X 500 = PPM)

Here is conversion chart.

EC to PPM Conversion Chart

EC to PPM Conversion Chart by Perfect Grower

www.perfectgrower.com

- 0.2 EC water is very soft, almost close to reverse osmosis or R/O water.

There are companies that have specific nutrient lines for soft water. Basically you need to add extra cal/mag and micronutrients to the water - or the medium in the form of extra magnesium lime.

- That's a magnesium deficiency or lockout.

https://sensiseeds.com/en/blog/magnesium-deficiency-cannabis-plants-spot/

It looks almost exacly like these leaves - the leaf edges and the interveinal damage look identical.

I think the combination of soft water which lacks calcium and magnesium, and the fact that the plant is in early flowering during which it has an increased need for magnesium, I would say it is a magnesium deficiency.

Also, NPK and Mg Are locked out at lower pH's.

If you just run a little of the water through it, and catch the very first runoff, you can use that to see if there is any accumulation of nutrients in the medium. If the EC and pH are the same as the water you put in there isn't and this is just a nutrient deficiency that can be helped with more magnesium. If they are higher, then there is a buildup in the medium and a flush and lower nutrient concentration are called for.

- Overfeeding

I don't want to jump the gun on the run-off test, however 3.2 EC is... way too high for any stage of a grow. Maximum flower expansion should be 2.1 EC or 1050 PPM max. 3.2 EC is 1600 PPM.

Especially in prefertilized soils which are already hot.

And this is why you can't use bottled nutrients without a pH and EC/PPM meter. Even if you don't use it every time you feed, you need to know initially what you're putting in the medium and what is coming out. And use it when things go wrong to know what is going on.

In hydro and coco, I would say it is impossible to go through a grow without a pH and EC/PPM meter. Maybe there are super dialed in people out there who have done it, however the risk of burning the root system with one mistake just isn't worth it.

And effective enough pH/EC meters are cheap too, which is great. Personally speaking, it is better to buy 2 good enough meters than 1 expensive meter. That way if you depend on it and it fails, it is easy to replace.

Here are 2 tips though:

1) Always callibrate your meters with callibration liquid before first use.
2) Store the pH meter with a few drops of 7.01 pH callibration liquid in it's cap.

This prevents the probe from drying out, which improves responsiveness a lot.

 

[FletchF.Fletch]

Okay. Looks like you've been giving them a strong dose of nutes when you feed, which is fine as long as you give plain water enough times in between feeding. In Hydro, an EC above 2 is too strong for many plants, and these are in a soil + soilless blend. My guess is that buildup and lockout has occurred. You can test this by measuring your runoff water.

For the next plant that gets thirsty, give it plain water adjusted to the ph you normally use and water it to runoff. Collect and measure the EC of the drained out liquid.

 

[blondie]

How about PH fluctuations causing lockouts and general havoc.

Cannabis pH Management - How to adjust pH in Water and Soil

Brown spots appearing on your lower leaves? See what cannabis leaves look like as a result of pH fluctuations and learn the solution!

www.growweedeasy.com

 

[Creeperpark]

hey .. thanks for all your help so far- i ordered and received today the blue 'truncheon' that measures ec/ppm - the ph meter has not arrived
i tested my plain water n it registers... ec 0.2/ ppm 500 (tds) , ppm 700 (ec x 700)

i made up a mixture of the foxfarm nutes and the reading was
ec - between 3.0/3.2- so between a ppm 500 (tds) of 1500/1600 , ppm 700 (ec x 700) of 2100/2240...

as u can see i have no clue, not an idea what these numbers mean... as the drowning man yells...

H E L P....

With a ec 0.2/ ppm 500 (tds) your water is very hard and shouldn't be used. Your meter has already helped to tell your water is too hard to use.

Friend now is the time to explore all the different liquid readings with every liquid you use. If you test everything all the time you will learn what's what. I prefer using ppm instead of EC because it is much easier. Test the runoff and all the different waters with different feeds and you will learn what the plants like. Your smart. Good luck.