Is Nevilles Haze still the strongest haze?

[happyhi]

HAPPHI

Interesting that you should note the cat piss odor, the brown/green old school that i just finished courtesy of a
generous Icmag member had the cat piss odor which i
also identify with old school weed.

is it all comin back too you

are you referring to the fourth variety of haze you described as incense /oldschool

im confused
the 4 variety still lives as you say it was gifted by an ic mem

as ive said b4 id lov for you too smoke som of that hazen reminess n give as much detail as you can remember

incense n catpiss in trademark for nyc haze

1luvbigherb

\
catpiss odor is what it smells a bit like late in flower, but after
cure matures to more piney smell. taste is rich, expansive but not as sweet as the others, more like highland oaxacan, we use to call them green spears. this plant courtesy of a icmag member is from sam's oh seedline according to the generous person who gifted me. Could go 16 weeks but i pulled it at about 14.5.
hope this helps your quest.
peace/hh

 

[Locoporro]

Great Thread

Even if it is a Real Melting-PoT

I have already read the text about the Boel ... great inquiry

I am smoking some OTH x Nep right now

I will say my opinion ,the better pheno have great covering of resin and a wild odor ... love if for now ...

nobody met neville......maybe he is yummybud?

Loll, you damned troll moppel

 

[indifferent]

Hehehehe moppel, that made me lol for real

Beautiful plants loccoporro, nice work.

 

[eugenegreen]

nobody met neville......maybe he is yummybud?

I needed a laugh Moppel... Thanks

 

[Guest50138]

G day folks ,my experiance with the nevills haze has been limited to one pack maybe 12 years ago,it was both one of the worst grows and one of the best grows i had ever done at that time , I'll explain. I done a little research before cracking them and found an article writen by nevill about growing haze ,no light leaks,grow them in dirt ,12/12 from seed ect being the expert gardiner i was at the time I ignored all of the advice given ,grew them hydro ,veged them for 4 week and wound up with triffids overtaking the entire grow space before they even started to flower properly so i had to bail out and take them outside ,lucky for me it was mid summer and they reveged proptly so i could take cuttings and try again I kept the cutting going until the following spring and had my second atempt i took a diffrent tackt and grew them outdoors in 60lt pots, veged the cuttings to about 30cm roughly for 2-3 weeks and start to force flower them for 16 weeks in a garden shed i converted to a dark room ,nevs haze was one of those real memerable ones ,the smell was pine and fruit, citrus peach sandwood all the good smells of summer it was probally the nicest canna smell i had ever smelled.the plants grew to probally 160 cm and need a stake and was a total bitch to manicure fluffy leafy bud everywhere,anyhow dried and cured for 6 weeks the smell was just great but the smoke didnt always live up to what i was expecting ,the 7 plants were trimed and combined,big mistake on my behalf after a while i noticed that not all the buds were equal about 1 time in 7 dipping into the stash that we (me and the missus) would get just totaly shitfaced, really really shitfaced, like old budda stick shitfaced ,it ocured to me the one of the plant was living up to the hype whereas the others were alright but just not all that great, lesson learned about selection i guess! selection seems to be the key to it if the plants are more than 50% haze seems you get a fair bit of diffence within them .this experiance was to set us on the way to being keen enough to grow an outdoor haze/hybrid grow every year since ,its high summer here in australia and we have ssh, a real hazy mango widow and skunk x haze (sams) midway through flower and realy dont mind lumping those pots in and out all summer because its worth it for the quality herb .sams skunk x haze was a good example about the selection being important grew out 12 girls 2 year ago and found one that was way above the rest in potency ,truly an outstanding plant I fell lucky to have her. Cheers Oldman.
PS not all aussies are agumentative douch bags and want to argue about holden v ford we all know holdens are better

 

[Dalaihempy]

Hola hempy, i know Tom fairly well, meanin ive met him, spent time with him at his digs. i have no reason what so ever to question his word.

Hi ClearBarbedFunk i think you and others in here have me all rong i infact like tom i have infact chatted to tom not sure if it was in here og or cw but yes think his a nice guy and for years i have infact told people that were looking for a good indica to seek out his DC becouse i knew from friends that infact grew a lot of the so called aleged kush lines that DC was in a legue of its own so like i sed you and others have me all rong.

now you have grown many types of ganja as many of us have. i have done many outcrosses with his haze, and of course many straight haze from his offerins.

you know as well as anyone, that there are short flowerin plants in many many seedlines. from what tom has told me, he has worked Posi's haze for many years, and if ya have grown any mexi lines, you will see the broader leaf types in those. tom selected for the faster plants, and of course resin production.

I do know that yes some sativas do and have a wider or browder leaf shape culumbine red had a very wide leaf for a sativa and panama red had a browed leaf to be it not as much as the culumbine red we called them types of sativas high land sativas or as others call them in here tempret sativas but i never grew mexican have seen acupolco gold being grown still rember that plant amazing colour kermit the frog green.

lumbos, mex are straight up sativas, that have plants that flower from 12 to 20 weeks, ive grown a bunch of highland oaxacan that finished in 12 weeks, with large fruity buds. so when goin thru a shit load of haze plants i dont see how anyone can say there wont be 14/15 week haze phenotypes, do you agree?

Well odly all the sativas i grew as in what i call pure sativas all grew the same in a givem line they flowerd the same time took the same time to mature tasted the same had the same smell and same potancy and i never had a sativa ever come in at 12 weeks of flower most took that to show sex odly some less to but never flowerd and matured with in 12 weeks.

As for haze lines i have never grown what would be a pure haze i have infact smoket it in 79 and 80 i have grown many 50% haze and nevilles haze wich is a 75% line.

Here are my experences with 50% haze not one ever came in under 14 weeks and most came in around 16 weeks from seed infact had a few go to 17/18 weeks but grown from clone many came in much faster but were talking seed here right.


Now if were going to talk about Nevilles haze being a 75% haze first ones i saw show sex were males starting at week 4 and up females never showed sex before week 6 and up some infact would not even show sex at week 9 and one wouldnt not show sex by memmory week 11 but from clone showed at week 6 but as like doc seams to think it was far from a managble thia like line they grew like crazy but acted like pure sativas and most went to 17 18 and some well after 20 weeks.

But i have heard that yes 14 week plants can be found in Nevilles haze to but not my experence its very possible that a long flowering female grown from seed will come in much faster grown from clone to.

I saw fome long flowering haze hybrids come in at 9 weeks of flower run as clones but there seed mums went 17 / 18 weeks.

Idont claim to be a hazeexpert but been growing it basicly non stop since 2002 even if im running a diffrent line i always haze at lest one haze hybrid running in the corner so i do have some idear.

ive only grown OT1s
haze for comparison, and imo they are nothin alike. but haveint grown that many OT1 Haze plants. the OT1 offerin was very much like some lemon Thai plants ive grown. jungle sativas.

Look i dont understand it in all honesty why is it ot1 says this..

Oldtimer1
7-16-2001

to answer your question no, this haze line is from a commune north of Sacramento and evolved separately but at the same time as Dutchmen haze lines

Okay then says.

Originally Posted by Oldtimer1 at bcg forum

My haze was brought here [uk] from the states during its development it was still being developed field scale and may not represent the finished product

Now read this.

From ace seed.......Our haze seeds came from the last haze reproductions done in California in the late 70s and they have a great preservation value for us.

It is a line that was still being developed then it is the last haze reproductions done in California in the late 70s it did not come from the same line as sams haze or from nevilles haze did why is it no one else can read this.

you said you had done research in determinin that Toms offerin is in fact a hybrid, and from what i gather you make this statement from lookin at pics here online.

No like i posted from my experence growing 50% haze hybrids and from the 75% hybrid called nevilles haze but also from reading things like this below.


posies spec for haze used to be:-

Mostly Mexican and Colombian some southern Indian and Thai A pure breeding stabilised hybrid pure sativa appearance many slim flowers can be lime green, dark green, silver blue or purple smell/taste Incredible sticky sweet. almost sweet and sour smell high very potent, clear up, energetic high
height 2 -3 metres
yield med - high
harvest date Netherlands natural photo period - end December
12 hr exposure to harvest 12 to 16 weeks



What a crock, Positronics did not even have any Haze until I gave it
to them after the mid 1980's. They crossed Haze with a local Pars
Purple outdoor variety that was weak shit pot that had a nice color.
FYI, Purple Haze was sold in the early 1970's by the Haze Brothers
in Santa Cruz, I should know I smoked it back then every day for
years....
BTW, some of the Purple Haze needed cold to turn purple, others did
not need cold and were purple even if never cold. Purple Haze was
pure Original Haze, and the purple color was not dominate, so easy tol ose.

I also like the Silver Blue, and Lime Green Haze better then the
Purple Haze, because they were more up, clear, and energetic in the
high. But the Purple may have been the strongest Haze and got the top
prices. It also looked great.
Did eneyone ever hear the band the Original Haze? Jerry Miller from
the Moby Grape started the group in the 70's after smoking the
Original Haze in Santa Cruz. He loved the Haze and bought a lot!!!

SamS



QUOTE=ClearBarbedFunk;3055697]i can find a shit load of pics that resemble a Haze plant, but there nothin more then a sativa. imo noone can make any determination on what a plant is made up of by lookin at a picture.[/QUOTE]

im no Haze guru, but in my early days on OG, i did plenty of my own research on haze, and from the offerins at the time, i went with Toms, not nevilles(hybrid) not TFDs(gangly plants)

I would run Toms but i think in all honesty if you have grown many true sativas in your life you get and understanding of what to expect.

QUOTE=ClearBarbedFunk;3055697]when Tom aquired his haze from Posi, it wasnt even on there menu, all they had was a hybrid PHaze. posi told Tom it was straight Haze, and its went from there.CBF[/QUOTE]


But posi them selfs say pure haze they had pure haze.

posies spec for haze used to be:-

Mostly Mexican and Colombian some southern Indian and Thai A pure breeding stabilised hybrid pure sativa

harvest date Netherlands natural photo period - end December
12 hr exposure to harvest 12 to 16 weeks

 

[Dalaihempy]

holden v ford we all know holdens are better

I would argue that but maybe diffrent place n time lol.

Think some of these fellas in here mate mostly being one just does not get the australians what he fails to understand is the australian larical that is realy a warm harted person will help any one in need yet will be the first to stand up and call bull shit.

 

[indifferent]

PS not all aussies are agumentative douch bags and want to argue about holden v ford we all know holdens are better

I know mate, never meant to slight your entire nation! Having grown up playing rugby and cricket against aussies every summer I've gotten into my fair share of sledging, lost a lot of em, you aussies know how to call someone a bastard/mongrel/rat in a lot of creative ways! lol

Mexican strains are a different kettle of fish to Thais and Colombians, they are from a bit further north so 14-16 weeks is usually the range for a pure Mexican whereas the fastest Thais I've done didn't even have any orange pistils at 16 weeks.

Having made a couple of Thai crosses, you can find phenos that are very close to the original Thai in smell and taste but even a very Thai dominant pheno seems to lose some of the extreme end of the pure Thai's effects, I mean, I've grown pure Thais indoors that took 24 weeks and yielded 10g off a 4 foot tall 3 foot wide plant, and that was just me picking off all the huge calyxes and drying them, there were no buds to speak of, just huge calyxes spread out along thin, wispy stems. Then there were the ones that would never finish, grown plenty of those! Out of the half dozen Mexicans I've grown, only one didn't produce decent colas indoors and that one was a heirloom from cali that had only ever been grown outdoors and was thought to have some Thai in it.

I've got some high hopes of developing a new technique for growing pure sativas indoors following on from my initial experiments with blue and near-uv light in the 380-470nm range. I'm finding hybrid plants are producing far more sativa expressions with thinner leaves when vegged under an experimental light that is 90% deep blue in the 430-470nm range. Also, pure sativas vegged under this light are currently growing much larger leaves with thinner blades than they do under regular lighting. Overall growth of the sativas seems much more vigourous under this deep blue light and their structure seems to me to be more as they would grow naturally, stronger, thicker stems with less stretch. I have started a follow-on experiment adding deep blue light to my hps for flowering and so far it's looking very promising but I need to do some more tweaking of my lighting setup and more experiments.

I'm also experimenting with supplementing UV in flowering. I think people have been on the wrong track with trying to increase resin production through UV supplementation, I've done a lot of research into the topic and it seems that the consensus is that UV supplementation doesn't increase resin production, but I did find a load of annecdotal comments from people who have added UV to their grows about the UV seeming to make the trichome ripen more quickly. I'm fairly sure I'm seeing this effect in my experiment and I'm theorising that UV may be of great use in getting tropical sativas to mature and ripen properly indoors, but again, more equipment and further experiments need to be done.

It's been a truism for a long time that most pure sativas don't grow well in traditional indoor situations, and while some people like Dj Short and Vic High have done some experiments, those were in the 90s, and I think modern technology hasn't been fully utilised yet and if we do apply the latest knowledge and technology, it might be possible to design an indoor setup that successfully replicates the environmentals a pure tropical sativa needs to fully ripen. I think the key is getting the lighting requirements right.

Point being, rather than arguing about the origins of the best sativa genes we have, shouldn't we be trying to work out how best to grow them?

hempy's been obsessing on just a few words from ot1 for years now and that can't be healthy for mind, body or soul! In the long run, it's absolutely pointless, if the absolute truth was ascertainable it would have been ascertained by now and these haze threads are really not getting us anywhere.

Oh, and for the record, I've had nothing but utter contempt for hempy ever since my first encounter with him back on overgrow in 2003 or 4 in a sativa thread I had going for my ongoing exploration of Thai seeds I'd collected and I made a post about some females that had hermied,. Out of the blue appears hempy with a post telling me my Thais weren't proper 'thia' (why the hell can't you spell Thai BTW?' and must be hybrids because he's never grown a single 'thia' that started out female and then hermied. I begged to differ and what followed was a torrent of abuse quite out of all reasonable proportion, defending myself and my view just resulted in further bile, others chimed in and those that greed with me also received a hefty dose of downright out of order nastiness from hempy. Time goes by and I see him do the same thing to others and it's just out of order, I've seen hempy told off severely on other forums more than once and this time gypsy had to step in, something he only ever does when it's getting out of hand. I don't know whether I understand Australians or not, known a few, they're generally opinionated but decent people and I'm sure hempy is a decent enough bloke and has some good knowledge of one or two things that would be worth knowing, but for christsakes, the man's behaviour is frequently appalling. I think it best if we just ignore each other from now on, I've not been able to give any kudos to a word you type for a long time due to personal distaste at your attitude and call me stubborn but I'm sticking with my viewpoint or you as a utter pain in the arse. So let's call a truce and you go and argue with whoever you want, but leave out the personal attacks on me, I was sick of it 5 years ago and as time has passed they have become no less irritating!

 

[Raco]

hempy,
I don´t hate you m8!!
it´s time to start over fresh ...the internet changed it all big time
let´s be honest and quit stirring shit
As Sam said,Neville may be a legend but his shit stinks like anyones else this is the year X,century XXI,millenium III
message from the antípodas
sincerely
raco

 

[eugenegreen]

I would argue that but maybe diffrent place n time lol.

Think some of these fellas in here mate mostly being one just does not get the australians what he fails to understand is the australian larical that is realy a warm harted person will help any one in need yet will be the first to stand up and call bull shit.

I visited the Oz about a year ago.. Besides Nimbin, I loved every bit of it... Go figure! Some of the most rudest junkies I've ever met were in Nimbin, crazy I know... But besides it, everything else was amazing... Rolled outta nsw to QL up to byron, surfers, gold coast area... Loved it!

And yeah, compared to what Ford's put out in the past 10 years... Holdens are better

hempy,
I don´t hate you m8!!
it´s time to start over fresh ...the internet changed it all big time
let´s be honest and quit stirring shit
As Sam said,Neville may be a legend but his shit skink like anyones else year X,century XXI,millenium III
message from antípodas
sincerely
raco

This is what we need now folks... Make peace fellas, and start anew... Bless Good on ya Raco

 

[happyhi]

great stuff

great stuff

I know mate, never meant to slight your entire nation! Having grown up playing rugby and cricket against aussies every summer I've gotten into my fair share of sledging, lost a lot of em, you aussies know how to call someone a bastard/mongrel/rat in a lot of creative ways! lol

Mexican strains are a different kettle of fish to Thais and Colombians, they are from a bit further north so 14-16 weeks is usually the range for a pure Mexican whereas the fastest Thais I've done didn't even have any orange pistils at 16 weeks.

Having made a couple of Thai crosses, you can find phenos that are very close to the original Thai in smell and taste but even a very Thai dominant pheno seems to lose some of the extreme end of the pure Thai's effects, I mean, I've grown pure Thais indoors that took 24 weeks and yielded 10g off a 4 foot tall 3 foot wide plant, and that was just me picking off all the huge calyxes and drying them, there were no buds to speak of, just huge calyxes spread out along thin, wispy stems. Then there were the ones that would never finish, grown plenty of those! Out of the half dozen Mexicans I've grown, only one didn't produce decent colas indoors and that one was a heirloom from cali that had only ever been grown outdoors and was thought to have some Thai in it.

I've got some high hopes of developing a new technique for growing pure sativas indoors following on from my initial experiments with blue and near-uv light in the 380-470nm range. I'm finding hybrid plants are producing far more sativa expressions with thinner leaves when vegged under an experimental light that is 90% deep blue in the 430-470nm range. Also, pure sativas vegged under this light are currently growing much larger leaves with thinner blades than they do under regular lighting. Overall growth of the sativas seems much more vigourous under this deep blue light and their structure seems to me to be more as they would grow naturally, stronger, thicker stems with less stretch. I have started a follow-on experiment adding deep blue light to my hps for flowering and so far it's looking very promising but I need to do some more tweaking of my lighting setup and more experiments.

I'm also experimenting with supplementing UV in flowering. I think people have been on the wrong track with trying to increase resin production through UV supplementation, I've done a lot of research into the topic and it seems that the consensus is that UV supplementation doesn't increase resin production, but I did find a load of annecdotal comments from people who have added UV to their grows about the UV seeming to make the trichome ripen more quickly. I'm fairly sure I'm seeing this effect in my experiment and I'm theorising that UV may be of great use in getting tropical sativas to mature and ripen properly indoors, but again, more equipment and further experiments need to be done.

It's been a truism for a long time that most pure sativas don't grow well in traditional indoor situations, and while some people like Dj Short and Vic High have done some experiments, those were in the 90s, and I think modern technology hasn't been fully utilised yet and if we do apply the latest knowledge and technology, it might be possible to design an indoor setup that successfully replicates the environmentals a pure tropical sativa needs to fully ripen. I think the key is getting the lighting requirements right.

Point being, rather than arguing about the origins of the best sativa genes we have, shouldn't we be trying to work out how best to grow them?

hempy's been obsessing on just a few words from ot1 for years now and that can't be healthy for mind, body or soul! In the long run, it's absolutely pointless, if the absolute truth was ascertainable it would have been ascertained by now and these haze threads are really not getting us anywhere.

Oh, and for the record, I've had nothing but utter contempt for hempy ever since my first encounter with him back on overgrow in 2003 or 4 in a sativa thread I had going for my ongoing exploration of Thai seeds I'd collected and I made a post about some females that had hermied,. Out of the blue appears hempy with a post telling me my Thais weren't proper 'thia' (why the hell can't you spell Thai BTW?' and must be hybrids because he's never grown a single 'thia' that started out female and then hermied. I begged to differ and what followed was a torrent of abuse quite out of all reasonable proportion, defending myself and my view just resulted in further bile, others chimed in and those that greed with me also received a hefty dose of downright out of order nastiness from hempy. Time goes by and I see him do the same thing to others and it's just out of order, I've seen hempy told off severely on other forums more than once and this time gypsy had to step in, something he only ever does when it's getting out of hand. I don't know whether I understand Australians or not, known a few, they're generally opinionated but decent people and I'm sure hempy is a decent enough bloke and has some good knowledge of one or two things that would be worth knowing, but for christsakes, the man's behaviour is frequently appalling. I think it best if we just ignore each other from now on, I've not been able to give any kudos to a word you type for a long time due to personal distaste at your attitude and call me stubborn but I'm sticking with my viewpoint or you as a utter pain in the arse. So let's call a truce and you go and argue with whoever you want, but leave out the personal attacks on me, I was sick of it 5 years ago and as time has passed they have become no less irritating!

just wanted to say how much i enjoyed reading your post. really refreshing to hear someone speak about making positive efforts to improve on the sativa method.
my experience is very old, but thought i'd share something about growing the haze back in the '70's. we grew in greenhouses as it needed protection since it didn't finish until the harvest moon in december generally. we never used any type of liquid nutrition, the soil was prepared months in advance and allowed to cook.
the recipe is posted somewhere on my posts along with the haze poster. we used water only, nothing else ever. never checked any ph and never had a sick plant. occasional outbreak of bugs were handled with a garlic/cayenne spray. These plants were started in early april so the run was long to say the least.
Seems like this type of plant really needs the time to mature and i'm wondering if it is the time it takes that makes for a different
effect. Do you feel that has anything to do with it? I have often wondered if all the breeding done over the last few decades wasn't overly focused on developing couch lock weed that finished quickly. Just wondering what your views are on the relationship of the effect to the length it takes for the plant to finish.
peace/hh

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

I do know of one lady who has actually met Neville briefly....

...maybe she will show up and talk about it and the Neville's Haze?

 

[Dutchgrown]

nobody met neville......maybe he is yummybud?

No I don't think he's yummybud.....

I do know of one lady who has actually met Neville briefly....

...maybe she will show up and talk about it and the Neville's Haze?

I have met Neville.

I have also met (some on numerous occasions):
Sam
Eddie/TFD
Wernard
Tom Hill

I met Neville, purely by accident, when he came to visit a mutual friend of mine in Amsterdam....this was about 10 years ago, when I got some seeds of his that our mutual friend was holding of his...NH f1's.

I grew out many, looking for the shorter flowering pheno that Neville and I spoke about, but he warned me that it would take some looking because some would go more than 15 wks....some even as much as 18 wks+ and anything in that range I should cull if looking for good parents.

At this time I was rather new to breeders...certainly not realizing that there was so many claims to 'haze'.

I was interested in NH due to the fact I simply loved to smoke it...it was clearly the only herb that had damn nearly made me think I was tripping....that lasted as an intense high for hours and hours and hours!! Not to mention having a very unique (in my mind anyway) flavor. We smoked some NH buds that day....so I knew the taste I was in search of as well.

I talked to Neville that day about him making more....he simply shook his head and said he was out of the seed making scene. I asked him what he thought of me taking the seeds and attempting to make some f2's, as well as using it in other breeding. He told me that 'if' I could find the right pheno, sure.

I grew out a small batch (about 30).....it was all I could get of the last seeds he had made. Much of what he told me was correct.....they were extremely long flowering, wispy/airy buds. I found only 1 male which appeared to my eyes as interesting due to it's shorter flowering (13-14wks) as well as being a very resinous male. (He had already told me to simply cull any that did not finish in 13-14 wk time frame. I also found a couple females that finished in less than 15 weeks, (12 and 13 wks) that were extremely resinous.

So I made some f2's from those. I wanted to work with these 3 (2f and 1m) even further.

Unfortunately, as some might recall (those who were on OG in 2003) my garden was raided by the Dutch police, and I sat cuffed in their car as I watched them wrangle all these hazes out and destroy them....throwing them into a dumpster. So all I was left with were f2's I had made and one pack of F1's not yet used (still in my fridge).

I'd like to say that having met some of the folks you are all discussing here, they are ALL due our utmost respect...for whatever role they each have played, or collectively have played.

I only wish that when I had the good fortune of meeting and hanging out with Neville that I had known more about all these debatable issues...for I would certainly have taken the opportunity to ask more pointed questions. I was just tickled pink that I was holding some of his last beans.

Here's a few pics of the f1's I grew during my search:

NH Male basking in the Dutch sunshine. *edit to add: I am 5ft9in

Thank you,
DG

 

[indifferent]

I'm not very experienced with growing pure hazes, but I've served my time with pure sats indoors and they are often troublesome. They often have peculiar feeding requirements, this will be because the ones I was growing were unworked, straight from country of origin and totally unused to any artificial cultivation methods, never been grown in any way other than in the dirt with no ferts other than what was in the soil. If the plants come from a region with poor soil, have been grown in low nutrient soils for many years, they can just fry up and die if fed the kind of nutrient regime we commonly use indoors. Therefore I agree that a good soil is the best way to grow those types of pure sativas, and Haze is like that too, it doesn't need strong feeding, although it can handle being fed better than some pure sats.

I'm just starting an experiment with some African sats in plain coco, they are just from some bagseed I found in Amsterdam from a couple of decent bags of imported weed, I want to perfect my coco technique for sativas before trying it on some more precious seeds. The coco is inert so I will have to feed them. I'm going to use some fish emulsion that's 2-3-3, seaweed extract, humic acid and molasses. When they are roughly halfway through flowering I'll switch from the fish emulsion to Plagron Alga bloom which is 1.5-13-14 and add some liquid bat guano which is 2-15-2. At three quarters of flowering I'll probably stop feeding and just give them humic, kelp and molasses until they are ready for just plain water. No idea if this will work, but it's worth a try. Pure sativas hate N in flowering and you often see really curly leaves on sativas from too much N, so I'm trying to minimise the levels of N in my regime, if they have too much N, flowering is prolonged and they can take forever to finish, just keep putting out new growth.

I have done pure Mexicans in coco with success, but they are much easier to grow than most sativas and aren't very touchy about feeding.

I think getting a pure tropical sativa to mature fully indoors is going to be a case of getting the feeding just right, getting the light levels and the spectrums of light just right and possibly applying some other tricks to encourage maturation such as girdling the stem and pruning off fan leaves.

I also find the drying and curing to be more tricky with a pure sativa. The open bud structure promotes fast drying and it can often be hard to get the buds to dry slowly, many is the time I've had sativa buds get too dry. Sometimes you can restore them a little by putting them in a jar with some fresh fan leaves, but often the fragile tastes and smells of a sativa can be damaged in the drying. Sativas often have lower terpene densities than indicas. The terpene profiles may be very complex, but the overall levels of terpenes present is not high, it is for this reason that many people I know don't like sativas, it's the 'tastes shit' effect, they have become used to hybrid lines with high terpene levels and if they don't get a strong, almost overpowering strength taste like you get with things like Cheese, then they don't care for the smoke at all. However, I do find a good long cure brings out the flavours in sativas and often increases potency. With many sats I've grown, they really needed several months in the jar to reak their full flavour and potency.

All in all, with pure sativas, especially unworked ones, slowly is the key to everything - flowering, feeding, drying, curing, all of it takes a long time and that is hard to accomodate in most indoor situations where time and space are at a premium. Sam himself said that a mostly Haze hybrid was better than pure Haze indoors and it may well be the case that a mostly sativa hybrid is better than a pure sativa indoors. Perhaps we can figure out how to grow pure sats productively indoors, perhaps not. I aim to have fun trying to find out though!

Why the longer flowering the plant the more uplifting, spacy, cerebrally active, psychedlic the effect I have no idea. I have often wondered about this though. It has to be down to terpenoids as they are largely responsible for modulating the effects of thc and creating the nature of the high. Perhaps there are terpenoids that are mostly only found in long flowering plants that are responsible for the cerebral nature of the effect? Limonene is said to make for a clear high and many pure sativas have a lemon element, but there is a lack of research into this area. Some fruits like Mango can work in conjunction with cannabis within the body so that if you eat a mango then smoke a load of bud, the high lasts longer and can be altered in nature. I suppose this will be due to an interaction between terpenoids from the mango and the thc and terpenoids in the cannabis. This suggests that a fruity terpenoid found in mango is also found in cannabis and as sativas are often fruity, that fruity terpenoid may well contribute to sativa effects.

I dunno, there are maybe a handful of people on the planet who have studied the interaction between terpenoids and thc in humans, sam skunkman being one of them. He has mentioned being able to tell some things about a plant by it's smell and having isolated different cannabinoids and terpenoids to experience their effects both solo and in various blends. Hopefully his findings will be published some day. I think there was mention of a gunpowder smell indicating high potency. Personally, apart from noticing lemony plants tend to have more cerebral effects, I think really nasty smelling plants with fecal matter/rotting corpses/nasty shit type smells tend to have stony, sedative effects, but those are suppositions on my part supported by years of observation but no real research.

Another part of my experiments with deep blue light is to study the ability of blue light in the 400-500nm range to stimulate the production of terpenoids. The peak photosynthetic response of carotenoid type terpenoids is in this range so in theory, subjecting a plant to lots of blue light will make it produce higher levels of terpenoids with a consequent effect on the taste and effect.

 

[l33t]

Hi Dutchgrown,

"We smoked some NH buds that day....so I knew the taste I was in search of as well."

How would you describe this taste n smell of the keeper pheno?

thanks

 

[tmu]

I get bored of the Neville's too fast...

Still looking for that "Ultimate Sativa" =)

 

[happyhi]

indifferent,
thank you for the superbly written post! really informative and much appreciated.
peace/hh

 

[Dutchgrown]

Hi Dutchgrown,



How would you describe this taste n smell of the keeper pheno?

thanks

A predominately pissy pine, with a slight hint of spice I'd call akin to sandalwood...although certainly dominated by the pine flavor throughout (being more pronounced).

 

[solarz]

DutchGrown...from reading your post...are we to assume that the Nevilles Haze that is being put out now isn't "authentic" or is it just that MNS has taken over the breeding from Neville (using the original parents)?

solarz

 

[Dutchgrown]

You know what they say about 'assumptions'......lol

I do know that Nev and Arjan were at one time partners.....Shanti worked at GHS....along with Nev...and that it is entirely possible.

I do recall asking Nev that day about his parent stock and he laughed as he told me about the castle, and how to that day (the day I visited him) his breeding male was not in anyone elses hands....but....living in the dam, and being around the 'scene' and privy to some things....I believe he did pass the last of his retained breeding stock to Shanti.

Thanks,
DG