Inside Out Trees, Silo Op, custom RDWC, water cooled
- Thread starter Ttystikk
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Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
Yep twist1 nailed it. those screens are very scale-able. can change your width, and screen height. Also with the legs, for how high you want the screen to stand, then just use the 2 elbows and small piece of pvc to connect them from the top for stability. When you go to train just loosen the top piece with the elbows, slide the screen out right in front of you and stand there in awe while you paint your masterpiece placing each branch for max space filling, and max yield with no larf. When I did the fence silos like you I hung them from the ceiling with wire. Cant remember what size fencing u used, but 4" so u can get your hands thru to train is critical the silo way.
Ttystikk
Member
Access to the inside of the Super Silo for plant maintenance was a big topic yesterday. Right now I'm using the 2"x4" mesh fencing and the holes are too small to reach thru. 4x4" mesh will allow for a lot more work to be done from the outside, and its stiffer so the mesh isn't as floppy.
I'm going to install a catwalk so when we work inside the trellis we aren't standing on water lines and possibly causing leaks. Instead of hanging my lower light from the top one, I elected to build what amounts to weighted lamp bases that hold the socket upright at the right height inside the trellis. These can be moved for work, and moved back into place as soon as they've finished.
Just to be clear where I stand, the policy here is to shut the lights off and let them cool before working around them. Burn marks are for morons!
I'm going to install a catwalk so when we work inside the trellis we aren't standing on water lines and possibly causing leaks. Instead of hanging my lower light from the top one, I elected to build what amounts to weighted lamp bases that hold the socket upright at the right height inside the trellis. These can be moved for work, and moved back into place as soon as they've finished.
Just to be clear where I stand, the policy here is to shut the lights off and let them cool before working around them. Burn marks are for morons!
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
Morons is a bit harsh lol, how bout uneducated. Nice upgrades though bro. One other thing that might be an option in the future, I started routing all my ground plumbing around and to the outside of the donut so when I work on the inside I don't have to stand on anything, just slide the fan and light base to the side.
Ttystikk
Member
Uneducated? How much education does one need to know not to share confined spaces with things hot enough to cook your breakfast? LOL
I thought about doing the same with hose routing and I couldn't come up with a way to do it that preserved good circulation. Maybe I'm not thinking outside the reservoir far enough... In any case, a lil catwalk is easy to make and slip into place.
Ttystikk
Member
A conversation on another thread about vertical bulb placement got me thinking; other members favor placing the bulbs at top and bottom of their cylinders. I think this wastes up to half of the light from each lamp- or at least creates the need to reflect it towards plants. This would work acceptably well in a shorter cylinder but would reveal its weakness once the cylinder's height exceeds its diameter.
I place mine at nodes one and three; divide the vertical height of the trellis (not including base or tubs) by four. Each of the three nodes is equidistant from the next and in turn from the ends. This means that the lamps get placed 1/4 of the total trellis height from the top and the bottom, leaving twice that distance between them vertically. A long description, just to be really clear that I'm NOT dividing the space by three and thereby placing the lamps too close together.
This placement allows each lamp to reinforce the other's coverage between them, lighting the center of the cylinder uniformly at the same level of intensity as being directly adjacent. The smaller distance between lamp and end allows the lamp to effectively shine above/below its position somewhat, improving efficiency over a design where lamps are placed at the ends of the cylinder.
I place mine at nodes one and three; divide the vertical height of the trellis (not including base or tubs) by four. Each of the three nodes is equidistant from the next and in turn from the ends. This means that the lamps get placed 1/4 of the total trellis height from the top and the bottom, leaving twice that distance between them vertically. A long description, just to be really clear that I'm NOT dividing the space by three and thereby placing the lamps too close together.
This placement allows each lamp to reinforce the other's coverage between them, lighting the center of the cylinder uniformly at the same level of intensity as being directly adjacent. The smaller distance between lamp and end allows the lamp to effectively shine above/below its position somewhat, improving efficiency over a design where lamps are placed at the ends of the cylinder.
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
not sure im seeing what u mean. u have it set up that way.
Ttystikk
Member
Yes, this is how mine are set up, and the plants respond well to the light all the way up and down the silo.
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
ttystikk,
U got a pic of the bulb placement like ur describing that u can point me too in the thread, I did a quick look thru and couldn't find a pic of both bulbs in place like u describe?
U got a pic of the bulb placement like ur describing that u can point me too in the thread, I did a quick look thru and couldn't find a pic of both bulbs in place like u describe?
I place the mogul bottom flush to the top of my plants and flush with the bottom of my plants botttoms. This gives me about 30 inches between the bulb tips. My doughnut has about 5-5.5 feet of plant canopy.
I do not move my bulbs during the growth to cause them to stretch. I only move the top bulb if I can not get the plant growth above the bulb to bend below the bulbs mogul base. I will move it up if the majority of the plants grow above the bulb base though. I find that the plant that is above the mogul does not fill in fully.
I am not sure of your setup but this is what I have found with my doughnuts. I would recommend anyone doing a doughnut setup invest in two bulbs because the extra yield more than pays for the second bulb. This is because of the overlap you mention but I feel has more to do with getting light to the shaded parts of the plant that would not get it with a single bulb.
I do not move my bulbs during the growth to cause them to stretch. I only move the top bulb if I can not get the plant growth above the bulb to bend below the bulbs mogul base. I will move it up if the majority of the plants grow above the bulb base though. I find that the plant that is above the mogul does not fill in fully.
I am not sure of your setup but this is what I have found with my doughnuts. I would recommend anyone doing a doughnut setup invest in two bulbs because the extra yield more than pays for the second bulb. This is because of the overlap you mention but I feel has more to do with getting light to the shaded parts of the plant that would not get it with a single bulb.
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
Yeah this is great advice, I copied it to a T and it increased my yields by a decent %. Thank u.
I was just trying to see tty's placement to see if hes onto to something better or something Ive tried already.
I am always up to improving my grow. So if he has a better way that can fit in my grow I want to hear it. But I suspect his grow is to different to help me.
Ttystikk
Member
It sounds like your cylinder is wider than it is tall. In that case the bulb placement is less critical.
I completely agree with the superiority of two bulbs over one in a cylinder arrangement, both for penetration and coverage uniformity reasons. This holds true even if total wattage remains the same.
Ttystikk
Member
Think of the shape of the core of a roll of toilet paper; it's taller than its diameter, right? If you light it just from the ends, the center will receive inadequate lighting.
Draw a line around the cylinder at the halfway point, bisecting the cylinder into two smaller, shorter cylinders. Now, do the same again with each half. You should end up with a cylinder that has three lines on it, all equidistant from each other and the ends of the cylinder. Placing the bulbs inside the cylinder at the height of lines one and three gives a better and more uniform distribution pattern than lighting from the ends. The longer the cylinder relative to diameter, the more difference it makes.
Draw a line around the cylinder at the halfway point, bisecting the cylinder into two smaller, shorter cylinders. Now, do the same again with each half. You should end up with a cylinder that has three lines on it, all equidistant from each other and the ends of the cylinder. Placing the bulbs inside the cylinder at the height of lines one and three gives a better and more uniform distribution pattern than lighting from the ends. The longer the cylinder relative to diameter, the more difference it makes.
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Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
To a certain degree, My donuts are taller than wide, and lighting them from the ends gets the most yields, cause the top and bottom get direct light, and the middle gets hit from both sides with what I call supplemental light cause its not direct. Since its getting 2 sources of supplemental light the yields are comparable to direct light. I know this has worked for my situation. But im sure if u extend ur donuts vertical height enough, then u will have to adjust the lights like u describe to get the best results.
Ttystikk
Member
If it works, I'm not here to tell you different. I was just explaining the rationale behind my own choice in lamp placement.
I get cross lighting through the center, too. My Super Silo is 6'3", or 1.9m tall by 5' diameter, giving a circumference of 16'. I don't move the lamps far enough in from the ends for them not to get direct light, and the overlap in the middle works out well, giving very close to uniform light pressure from end to end.
I get cross lighting through the center, too. My Super Silo is 6'3", or 1.9m tall by 5' diameter, giving a circumference of 16'. I don't move the lamps far enough in from the ends for them not to get direct light, and the overlap in the middle works out well, giving very close to uniform light pressure from end to end.
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
No disrespect intended as I was sharing what works for my dimensions. I see why now, u got an extra 1 1/2' to spread those two lights over, where as im shooting for 5' high, by about 4' diameter of vert canopy. Ur rocking thousands though right? im only doing 600's
Ttystikk
Member
That's a good setup, and in fact the differences are smaller than might first appear;
The critical point of geometry is the actual filament of the lamp itself. In your A. shorter cylinder you're still B. moving the filament towards the center by the sum of the base and socket plus half the length of the bulb itself. Between those two factors, where you have your lamps and where I'd place them according to my (correctly applied, I can only hope!) dimly remembered college physics theory amount to a difference of less than six inches. The filament inside the bulb is that long, so I don't think you're missing out on anything.
Your cylinder's interior volume is roughly 60 ft². That means your light pressure and mine are nearly identical, as I'm running 2 x 860W CDM lamps in a 100 ft² silo. Even more interesting, our cylinder height to diameter ratios are identical:
5' tall / 4' across = 1.25:1
6.25' / 5' = 1.25:1
I really like the quality of light these CDM/CMH lamps emit; their Color Rendering Index (CRI) is 92 on a scale of 1 to 100, where HPS scores only 22. I hope and expect they will outperform HPS in yield and resin production.
That said, my own emotional stake is in getting at the truth and not cheerleading for a pet assumption, so the first batch of ladies in an otherwise identical room lit by HPS thouies is in place and running THAT test, right now, head to head.
Answers. Have them soon, we will!
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