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ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

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RetroGrow

Active member
Veteran
Calif. Chamber of Commerce fights pot proposition

Calif. Chamber of Commerce fights pot proposition

Looks like the chanmber of commerce is against us:

"SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) — A California ballot initiative that would legalize adults’ recreational use of small amounts of marijuana is raising questions about its potential impact on workplaces in the Golden State should the measure pass on Nov. 2.

At issue: Would weekend pot smokers be the beneficiaries of growing social acceptance and less rigorous hiring standards related to their off-the-clock habits? Or would employers suddenly have to accommodate recreational pot smokers in a way that jeopardizes their ability to ensure a safe and productive workforce? Read more on pot, pollution, portioning on California ballot.

“Employers are probably concerned, but it doesn’t change anything for employers,” said Lewis Maltby, president of the National Workrights Institute, a Princeton, N.J.-based outfit that works to protect human rights in the workplace.
The Vote on Legalized Marijuana

Californians are casting ballots next week on a proposition to legalize limited use of marijuana. Video courtesy of Reuters.

“If people are now able to have a small amount of marijuana without it being a crime, that makes it a little more acceptable, and employers may be a little less likely not to hire someone who’s a weekend pot smoker,” he said.

“It might change the climate just a little bit,” Maltby said. “Would you refuse to hire someone for the equivalent of a traffic ticket?”

California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger came out against Proposition 19. But he recently signed a bill that lowers the penalty for adults caught carrying small amounts of pot to the equivalent of a traffic ticket. As of Jan. 1, possession of up to an ounce of marijuana will be classified as an infraction instead of a misdemeanor in the state.

Prop. 19 has split law-enforcement groups and caused many Democratic politicians either to oppose the issue outright or remain mum about it. But the measure also enjoys some high-profile support. Former Surgeon General Dr. Joycelyn Elders backs the initiative, saying legalization would help keep more nonviolent youth out of jail. Earlier this week, billionaire financier George Soros contributed $1 million to the Prop. 19 campaign.
‘Uncharted territory’

The California Chamber of Commerce disagrees that Prop. 19’s effects would be minimal. Last week, the employer lobbying group began airing radio ads in Southern California detailing its opposition.

“It creates a whole new protected class of employees and ties employers’ hands in maintaining a drug and alcohol-free workplace,” said Erika Frank, general counsel for the California Chamber of Commerce in Sacramento.

“It’s uncharted territory,” she said. “There are a lot of ambiguities the initiative creates that unfortunately won’t be resolved until employers are sued.”

“The concern is being able to manage marijuana use and employees showing up to work high on marijuana,” Frank added.

Employers today can act upon their workplace policies and take disciplinary action on the spot if they suspect a worker is high on drugs or alcohol, she said. But Prop. 19 would change that by requiring that a worker have “actual impairment” before employers can take action, and that definition is unclear, she said. “An accident may have to happen before any action can be taken.”

Prop. 19 also would prevent employers from using a positive result on a marijuana drug test against a job candidate in the hiring process, Frank said.
Testing put to the test

Hanna Liebman Dershowitz, an attorney who’s co-chair of the Yes on 19 legal subcommittee, called the Chamber’s assertions inaccurate. Workers wouldn’t be able to use pot and then drive a school bus or operate a forklift with impunity, she said.
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“There’s nothing in Proposition 19 that would require employers to tolerate marijuana use on the job,” Dershowitz said.

But what employees do with pot on their own time is a different matter.

“I submit that given the amount of marijuana use today, there are many perfectly functional and positively exemplary employees who choose to use marijuana in a recreational and non-problematic way,” she said.

A major point of contention seems to be employers’ use of urine tests to determine the presence of marijuana metabolites in workers’ systems. This method is an unreliable gauge of impairment, Dershowitz and others argue, because it captures pot use days or even weeks after it may have occurred since marijuana metabolites linger in the system long after the user’s high has worn off.

Proposition 19 “still allows for drug testing and still allows for employers to maintain a drug-free workplace,” said Stephen Gutwillig, California state director for the Drug Policy Alliance, a national nonprofit group. “It just doesn’t allow you to fire someone solely on the basis that they consumed marijuana in the last month.

“Why should an employer be able to summarily fire an employee for smoking pot three weeks ago?” he said. “The only defense that behavior has is based on the illegality of a substance that a majority of Californians think should be changed anyway.”

Nationally, about one in five employers say they don’t test job candidates for drug use, but 55% report conducting drug tests for all candidates, according to a survey of 433 human-resource managers fielded last November and December from the Society for Human Resource Management. Another 17% of HR managers say they only require drug testing for safety-sensitive positions while 7% say they only test job candidates for drugs when required by law.

Drug testing doesn’t always stop once the hiring process is complete. Of employers that engage in the practice, more say they’ve stepped up their use of drug tests in the last few years, according to the survey.

Eighty percent said they required workers to take a test in 2009 when there was “reasonable suspicion” of drug use, up from 73% who said so in 2006. Another 69% said they tested workers after an accident, up from 58% who did so three years before. Last year, 46% of HR managers said they had workers submit to random drug testing compared with 39% who did so in 2006.
Making pot more like alcohol

Prop. 19 would level the playing field between marijuana and alcohol and bar employers from retaliating against workers who use pot on their own time, Gutwillig said. “That’s the standard we have for alcohol and for prescription drugs, and it only makes sense that marijuana, which is objectively, scientifically less harmful than alcohol, should not be held to a higher standard.”

If it passes, the measure would allow adults age 21 and older to possess up to an ounce of marijuana and cultivate up to 25 square feet of the plant for personal consumption. An ounce of pot has a street value of about $400 and is enough to supply at least 20 joints, Gutwillig said.

California voters, who legalized medical marijuana in the state in 1996, appear to be losing their initial gusto for Proposition 19 as election day draws near. Only 44% of likely voters said they support it, down from 52% who were in favor last month, according to a poll released Oct. 20 from the Public Policy Institute of California. The portion of likely voters opposed to the measure rose to 49% from 41%.

Apart from the employment aspects, the push to legalize and regulate marijuana is meant to change damaging drug policy overall, Dershowitz said.

“What we really need to do is help address the violence, crime and corruption we’ve added to the mix on marijuana by criminalizing it,” she said. “Those things can be significantly reduced and even eliminated over time, just like with alcohol.”

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/california-employers-fight-pot-proposition-2010-10-28
 

redrut

Member
It's foolish not to think that the government is not going to rape us if you grow, stricter penalties will be enforced, smoked pot doesn't smell like growing pot. Believe it if a lot of people grew their own tobacco, a law would be passed to stop it.

Cannabis Cigarettes would be introduced. A cutting edge of thc % will be the average for anyone who buys from stores.

This is all in theory, and I think it's possible.
 

BiG H3rB Tr3E

"No problem can be solved from the same level of c
Veteran
It's foolish not to think that the government is not going to rape us if you grow, stricter penalties will be enforced, smoked pot doesn't smell like growing pot. Believe it if a lot of people grew their own tobacco, a law would be passed to stop it.

Cannabis Cigarettes would be introduced. A cutting edge of thc % will be the average for anyone who buys from stores.

This is all in theory, and I think it's possible.

They already put people in jail for growing their own mj and people still risk cultivating it. What would be their next move, cut off your hands and remove your eyeballs?
 

BiG H3rB Tr3E

"No problem can be solved from the same level of c
Veteran
I'm talking in California. With a card, unless your growing full houses full, they can give a shit less.

See this is what ive yet to understand. All the people who dont like 19 have the holier than thou med card. Great. So that means 19s limits wont effect you in any way. So why are you opposed to 19? If we continue to stack all our chips on 215, that house of cards is bound to fall. We need to diversify our options and making it legal for RECREATIONAL use means that people no longer think that marijuana is only for seriously sick and dying people and that it should be treated as substance that can be enjoyed by all adults.

Please don't try and come to me with that whole "all mj use is medical", "anyone can get their card" etc etc. let me just quote the first article in prop 215 and the reason why it was actually voted on by many non-smokers:

(A) To ensure that seriously ill Californians have the right to obtain and use marijuana for medical purposes where that medical use is deemed appropriate and has been recommended by a physician who has determined that the person's health would benefit from the use of marijuana in the treatment of cancer, anorexia, AIDS, chronic pain, spasticity, glaucoma, arthritis, migraine, or any other illness for which marijuana provides relief.


Bolded is why most of these people voted for 215. Underlined is the reason so many people were able to abuse 215, because most people would have imagined this meant MS or chron's disease or some other serious ailment, not "oh im bored and like to get high so i deserve medical marijuana"....

That is why you have seen so many states write much stricter mmj laws, because people like you would rather fight for a abused broken system, rather then fight to show marijuana is a normal substance that should be legal and enjoyed.

I got into the mmj scene because I had people very close to me that truly needed cannabis to help them live a normal life. What I found as I became more involved was that a very small percent of patients actually required mj for medical purposes and the majority just wanted to get high. I dont have any problem with people wanting to get high, its a far safer alternative to alcohol, but im tired of seeing people have to buy "mmj cards" through quack doctors and act like they have a serious condition to enjoy cannabis.

Lets legalize marijuana for all people and get scientists behind real research to effectively produce medicine for people who really need it, because I guarantee that they would be able to either produce or concoct a medicine through marijuana that is far more effective then what us growers can grow.
 
C

Capt.Cannabis

i am totally against any more legalization of marijuana in california or the united states for that matter. i think the current medicinal marijuana system is fine and that any more attempts to de legalize marijuana by the state or federal government is going to make marijuana like tobacco - a.k.a. marijuana will most likely be illegal to grow by anyone but the government farms and the marjiuana will be taxed to hell like tobacco.
does everyone here want to have their marijuana become low quality and have to be handed to them in a liqour store after being grown on a government farm and taxed to hell?
 

kmk420kali

Freedom Fighter
Veteran
i am totally against any more legalization of marijuana in california or the united states for that matter. i think the current medicinal marijuana system is fine and that any more attempts to de legalize marijuana by the state or federal government is going to make marijuana like tobacco - a.k.a. marijuana will most likely be illegal to grow by anyone but the government farms and the marjiuana will be taxed to hell like tobacco.
does everyone here want to have their marijuana become low quality and have to be handed to them in a liqour store after being grown on a government farm and taxed to hell?

Uhm, tobacco is not illegal to grow for personal consumption...only to sell--:tiphat:
 

Baba Ku

Active member
Veteran
Lets legalize marijuana for all people and get scientists behind real research to effectively produce medicine for people who really need it, because I guarantee that they would be able to either produce or concoct a medicine through marijuana that is far more effective then what us growers can grow.
I couldn't agree more. But does this legislation do that? Or is it geared more to set the framework for future control?
Just for the record, if I hear another grower call folks who buy his weed patients again, I think I will hurl...In any context at all, that is nothing but a ruse.

Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis
My whole being has problems with these words.

I keep hearing those words echoing about sacrificing freedoms for a temporary sense of security...
 

kmk420kali

Freedom Fighter
Veteran
I couldn't agree more. But does this legislation do that? Or is it geared more to set the framework for future control?

With Legalization on the Law Books, it will open up the way for Science to study Cannabis, without having to ask (and be denied) permission from the DEA--


Just for the record, if I hear another grower call folks who buy his weed patients again, I think I will hurl...In any context at all, that is nothing but a ruse.

Tell that to my buddy with MS...or the many Cancer, AIDS, Terminal PATIENTS that are able to get off multiple Meds because of the relief they get from Cannabis as a MEDICINE--
But I will agree that many are not in that category...but to say there are no Patients, is wrong--
 

JJScorpio

Thunderstruck
ICMag Donor
Veteran
i am totally against any more legalization of marijuana in california or the united states for that matter. i think the current medicinal marijuana system is fine and that any more attempts to de legalize marijuana by the state or federal government is going to make marijuana like tobacco - a.k.a. marijuana will most likely be illegal to grow by anyone but the government farms and the marjiuana will be taxed to hell like tobacco.
does everyone here want to have their marijuana become low quality and have to be handed to them in a liqour store after being grown on a government farm and taxed to hell?

I can tell you for a fact that there are many places around the Country that smokers have access to nothing other than Mexi brick or beasters. These people would gladly be able to buy midgrade bud at a fair price......
 
J

John Bourne

BiG H3rB Tr3E said:
Lets legalize marijuana for all people and get scientists behind real research to effectively produce medicine for people who really need it, because I guarantee that they would be able to either produce or concoct a medicine through marijuana that is far more effective then what us growers can grow.

there's still the feds to contend with, and that isn't going to change any time soon. big business pharm. companies won't touch cannabis with a ten foot pole for this reason. growers are the best hope we got, and frankly, the grow community has been doing a great job under this difficult time of prohibition. imagine how much more experienced and skilled growers could do without having to operate under the stress of constant fear and paranoia....
 
R

rick shaw

National polls showed Dewey in a landslide over Truman.They even printed the Nov.3rd edition before the results were final.The very same media that helped criminalize marijuana nine years earlier.(Jack is probably spinning right now) So you can see why I completely trust their objectivity.
 

redrut

Member
i am totally against any more legalization of marijuana in california or the united states for that matter. i think the current medicinal marijuana system is fine and that any more attempts to de legalize marijuana by the state or federal government is going to make marijuana like tobacco - a.k.a. marijuana will most likely be illegal to grow by anyone but the government farms and the marjiuana will be taxed to hell like tobacco.
does everyone here want to have their marijuana become low quality and have to be handed to them in a liqour store after being grown on a government farm and taxed to hell?

Not to mention the % of thc that's 'legal' to give out in the soon to come Cannabis Cigarettes.
 

sac beh

Member
LEGALIZE IT! (conjuring Skip and Peter Tosh)

LEGALIZE IT! (conjuring Skip and Peter Tosh)

Peter Tosh's family says it's in favor of Calif. Prop 19
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/blog-post/2010/10/legalize_it_peter_toshs_family.html
On the heels of George Soros and George Zimmer voicing their support for marijuana legislation, a much more logical endorsement has kicked off an advertising campaign: the Peter Tosh estate.

It's no small leap to take: The reggae singer wrote the veritable anthem for the movement "Legalize It" in 1976. Now, 34 years later, his family has used the song in a commercial to call for support for the Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010, or Prop 19.

An announcement reads, "They do this in the name of Peter Tosh, his music, and their strong belief in the power of 'Yes' on California's Proposition 19."

The former Wailer passed away in 1987. His son Dave Tosh recorded the advertisement, saying, "Peter Tosh has been a lifelong advocate for the legalization of marijuana.... On November 2. California can help make this dream a reality."

But seriously folks, I've been following this thread and not posting much because I won't be voting. I haven't been convinced of a single anti-19 argument neither here nor from the general 19 opposition. I'd ask you all to vote to end prohibition, but I know each will vote in his/her interest. So think on it good the next couple of days and have a good weekend.. and legalize it..
 
I got into the mmj scene because I had people very close to me that truly needed cannabis to help them live a normal life. What I found as I became more involved was that a very small percent of patients actually required mj for medical purposes and the majority just wanted to get high. I dont have any problem with people wanting to get high, its a far safer alternative to alcohol, but im tired of seeing people have to buy "mmj cards" through quack doctors and act like they have a serious condition to enjoy cannabis.

Lets legalize marijuana for all people and get scientists behind real research to effectively produce medicine for people who really need it, because I guarantee that they would be able to either produce or concoct a medicine through marijuana that is far more effective then what us growers can grow.

On medicine - I agree there are too many benefits to count from our favorite plant. And even more to be found and cultivated for.
I disagree on your assessment of what medicine is. Is laughter medicine? Can good sex make you less stressed and happier? Can you get high off running? off Giving to others? off yoga? I'ld say anything that improves well being or alleviates stress improves your health.
I'll search for it, but there is a study that shows pot makes you more "feminine" chemically. (feminine as in the "sacred feminine) This is surely medicine for a world competing for illusory monetary gain.

i am totally against any more legalization of marijuana in california or the united states for that matter. i think the current medicinal marijuana system is fine and that any more attempts to de legalize marijuana by the state or federal government is going to make marijuana like tobacco - a.k.a. marijuana will most likely be illegal to grow by anyone but the government farms and the marjiuana will be taxed to hell like tobacco.
does everyone here want to have their marijuana become low quality and have to be handed to them in a liqour store after being grown on a government farm and taxed to hell?

wow, what pessimism. I'm not sure if you know this or not but, we control the government with votes. get involved. get your friends involved and stop those things from happening.

fear mongering is easier tho.

:blowbubbles:
 

Anti

Sorcerer's Apprentice
Veteran
Tobacco is not grown on government farms and then sold to tobacco companies, btw.

The big companies own their own means of production.

People who believe that keeping something illegal is keeping the power away from the politicians, judges, police and prisons are SERIOUSLY deluded.
 

dagnabit

Game Bred
Veteran
the independent tobacco farmer is not an evil corporation...

i dont think the captain understands how tobacco works
 
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