I no longer believe Broad Mites cause DUDDING

[whadeezlrg]

did I read that correctly? you got dud's first gen from seed?

 

[the gnome]

yeah deez, everything has been from seed in the last and current bloom runs.
so the dud syndrome is been happening on cuts then?
I'm not no where near up to speed on these long dud threads.


storm.... ive been scoping with my loupe30x nonstop, haven't seen a single BM.
I need to get my 60-100X scope and take a look.
I can spot broads and their eggs a mile away with a 30X
so what are HRM and CM?
hemp russet/cyclamen mites?
what kills them? are they also in the tarsonied family like the broads?





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[whadeezlrg]

had you ever had them in the space prior? that adds an entirely new wrinkle.

 

[the gnome]

BMs in the bloomroom?
last nov 3-4 plants went into bloom rm and 2wks in pistils were dying off, and it was BM.

the last run, the 10 plants were kickin,
but the 3 plants that had deformed pistils got a bad case of BMs right before bloom. ravaged the plants pretty good and i had to delay putting them into bloom by 3-4wks.
thats when i started seeing the pistils dying
with the flowers looking just like the nov run in bloom,
which btw was my 1st time ever dealing with BMs in bloom.
I figure the 3 plants blooms screwed up because BM toxins were still in the plants causing the bud probs..

the probs I'm starting to seeing in the current 5 plants in bloom

 

[xxxstr8edgexxx]

Unless you use the correct treatment you won't get rid of bm's. If you aren't using systemics it's a long hard battle but I've known several organic folks to eradicate them.

 

[soopy]

Fwiw....I've come to the hypothesis that what I call a "dud", the classic small leaf, short node spacing, weak branching..., is a fungal/virus/bacterial ailment vectored by fungus gnats or any root eating insect. I feel like the pathogen exists in the substrate, contaminated grow media, and is allowed to enter the plant through wounds to the root system. I'm sure the infected media would/will infect plants in a matter of time on its own, the whole process is stepped up in pace and severity with the addition of soil born pests. I run a rather larger mom room and never saw a dud until fungus gnats made it in in some new batch of media. Again, fwiw...

 

[whadeezlrg]

Fwiw....I've come to the hypothesis that what I call a "dud", the classic small leaf, short node spacing, weak branching..., is a fungal/virus/bacterial ailment vectored by fungus gnats or any root eating insect. I feel like the pathogen exists in the substrate, contaminated grow media, and is allowed to enter the plant through wounds to the root system. I'm sure the infected media would/will infect plants in a matter of time on its own, the whole process is stepped up in pace and severity with the addition of soil born pests. I run a rather larger mom room and never saw a dud until fungus gnats made it in in some new batch of media. Again, fwiw...

am I the only one that thinks duds are more common with plants grown in soil? I think you may be onto something soopy.

 

[FoothillFarming]

dudding is a combination of viruses........Broad mites and other pests spread said viruses.......

 

[soopy]

am I the only one that thinks duds are more common with plants grown in soil? I think you may be onto something soopy.

Personally, ive only had it in coco plants, but have seen it first hand in soils too. The only common link I've witnessed is soil born pests that seem to either introduce the pathogen or allow it into the plant through wounds....

 

[whadeezlrg]

I've seen them in coco as well, but they seem to happen more often and more out of the blue in friends soil grows. I have yet to have duds show up in my coco garden besides when I bring them in from an outside source, and I haven't personally had the issue spread to other plants; only to clones from the dudded plant...which rarely even root for me. I've also noticed that dudded plants are typically in rockwool cubes as clones; I wouldn't say that it's got anything to do with things going dud, just a personal observation.

 

[soopy]

I've seen them in coco as well, but they seem to happen more often and more out of the blue in friends soil grows. I have yet to have duds show up in my coco garden besides when I bring them in from an outside source, and I haven't personally had the issue spread to other plants; only to clones from the dudded plant...which rarely even root for me. I've also noticed that dudded plants are typically in rockwool cubes as clones; I wouldn't say that it's got anything to do with things going dud, just a personal observation.

It's all about the observations......respect mang.

 

[accessndx]

am I the only one that thinks duds are more common with plants grown in soil? I think you may be onto something soopy.

I had a 100% hydro grow for years...then duds started popping up. I transitioned to soil and so far everything appears much healthier.

Having said that: I started using Pro-Mix BX Biofungicide + Mycorrhizae.
It already comes fully loaded with competitive mycelium and bacteria. My branches used to snap with the lightest touch....now I can practically toss my gals around without a single break.

So I'm not sure it's just a soil issue....I think regardless of your medium you can experience duds.

 

[OgOrganics]

you are aware that there is another member of the canna community named OGorganic right? he was at one time one of the clone vendors for progressive options. he's a solid member of the community, kind of strange that you chose a name so similar, wouldn't you say?

which came first, the chicken or the egg? I joined overgrow.com in either 2000 or 2001 as OGorganics. I clearly mean no disrespect, but you seem to be sippin the haterade

 

[whadeezlrg]

^^^well, call it what you want to call it ogorganic is a friend of mine, and nothing I said was untrue or out of context, so there's always that.

 

[Bongstar420]

I noticed its seed born as well. Just peroxide the seed before germ. Then SAR them before they get too big. Dump anything showing sign after 8 in. Weak chlorosis/Mg defic and crinkled leaf is primary to early stage development. The condition is treatable and can be cured in a very limited fashion, but its only worth it to get through a tough spot or save a unique cut for breeding. Without PCR or extensive testing (which takes months to show transmission), its not worth the risk to your veg room. Plants contracting the condition in mid flower won't show much discernible effect, but plants infected before flower initiation can crash mid flower with ease. Symptomology is striking similar to broads.

Its also soil born btw. Any biting insect that may "taste" a plant can spread it

Your problem is not cleanliness in your room per se. The pathogen is only persistent in living organisms and will die in free air after a few days. I will test dried infected material for transmission at some point to corroborate that dead, infected stuff looses virility under desiccating conditions. The cleanliness is only important to control insect populations.

I am currently cropping full duds with normal growth. I assume the condition is not curable in large specimens, but treatable. If I stop treatment, crop quality will decline in weeks. I treat the condition and subsidize the plants metabolism in various ways. The treatment protocol has aspects which can create pathogens that are vary hazardous to humans and will cause the condition to truly become untreatable.. I don't plan on continuing this or promoting it among cannabis growers. However, it is very safe in the short term. I am using chemicals approved for human consumption under limited circumstances.

thing is, i just chopped the last round
3 plants from seed from 1 breeder
10 plants from seed from another breeder
3 dudded big time
the other 10 were perfect?
its fast nearing hair pulling time!

I have some chitosan ollig. coming,
and a new batch of plants ready to go into bloom next week.
is it too late to start on the plants already showing probs?

as much as i don't want to
maybe the best thing is to chop the 5 plants in bloom
now showing signs,
they've only been in 20 days.
clean/bleach the room, is there another product to use on walls/floors?
plus bomb it with trinity(anti fungal)
and heat treat, i can get to 130F no prob.

I hate it.
Ive been hearing about this dud stuff for a few yrs now
and not a clue as to what for sure are the things or thing that can be the cause

 

[2ppl]

Well, my buddy just harvested his gg4 that came from dudding gg4 parents ,4 lbs of larfie foxtailed c grade weed that sold for 1200. 1 pound of crap per light! This run was better than his last run with it, where that product sold for 1000/lb. By the time I told him about the dudding issue he had already started flowering and didn't want to start over, hoping things would change. The quality did improved from the last run, had a little more thc on the buds and it was a little denser. The only thing that he changed was the use of bigger pots, from #5 to #7 pots. Not sure if that might of helped it. He also had scouts og and gsc in the room which didn't get infected. From my experiences, dudding plants don't spread, that's only my experience, can't speak for others. I was really scared that it would spread, since I had some gg4 duds in my room also. Luckily it didn't or havent rear its ugly head. Fingers crossed!

 

[the gnome]

Fwiw....I've come to the hypothesis that what I call a "dud", the classic small leaf, short node spacing, weak branching..., is a fungal/virus/bacterial ailment vectored by fungus gnats or any root eating insect. I feel like the pathogen exists in the substrate, contaminated grow media, and is allowed to enter the plant through wounds to the root system. I'm sure the infected media would/will infect plants in a matter of time on its own, the whole process is stepped up in pace and severity with the addition of soil born pests. I run a rather larger mom room and never saw a dud until fungus gnats made it in in some new batch of media. Again, fwiw...

ok nailed down exactly whats the issue leaf septoria.
i have been screwing with this sh*t since last aug but it's always bouncing back in one way or another.

I finally saw pics in another thread here on IC and this guy sent samples to a lab,
it came back as leaf septoria and another fungal infection,
but i'm dealing with septoria

the symptoms have changed over time and resembles dudding in many ways.
doing more investigating and talking with bio works there a fungal and **bacterial** leaf septoria... ding ding!
people with dudding issues send some samples off to a lab and see what they come up with

 

[2ppl]

I threw away all my 4 weeks old dudding gg4 clones as soon as I found out about dudding. It was painful at first but gotta do it! I would send a sample to the lab if I had any left. I have a couple pics of it at week 6-7 of flower, that's when it usually show its symptoms big time. Larfie and airy buds, small fan leaves , light green/yellowish sugar leaves. Total stoppage of the production.

 

[whatthe215]

So is the consensus now that it's a virus?

New spots I setup completely sealed with exclusion areas and pop seeds and hunt the first round.

FYI, I was in Oakland and checked out Harborside with a buddy who was dead set on picking up DHN clones... couple weeks into veg now and 20-30% look like duds.

All the AC/DC he got from San Jose Harborside were dud looking as well.

 

[2ppl]

I don't think anyone has any ideal what causes it, tho many have their theories and a lot of non believers. I picked up some gg4 at barc collective in LA , who gets their clones from Midnightfarm, and a couple had the dud symptom so I threw them out quick. I also picked up 7 Diamond Og ( I'm pretty sure it ain't an og cut) and 3 of them got the small leaves dudding syndrome which looks nothing like the other 4. I'm gonna flower it to see if it will dud out like the gg4. I'm pretty much hoping it will turn out good but I'm realistic it wont.